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Why does caldari militia fail? Your viewsplease
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Garbad theWeak
#61 - 2011-12-20 21:26:16 UTC
My experience in Caldari Militia was somewhat different.

I didn't observe calmil to be particularly poorly led, ununified, or disorganized (relative to the other militias). I saw several quality leaders and corps. It was simply a matter of gallente having more people in better ships. The average Calmil member simply does not have the SP or isk to properly ship and win outnumbered, and thus, 15 drakes > 10 drakes. Or worse, 15 abbys > 10 drakes. It wasn't a lack of willingness to fight or even skill, it was simple raw numbers.

A few nights of fighting consistently outnumbered with people titan bridging or undocking neut carriers and activity dropped even more. And tbh, this is probably the best strategy -- deny the gal blob fights until they get bored enough to move to 0.0 or switch sides again. But the good news is all it would take to turn it around is a good active 30 man corp and suddenly the pendulum swings the other way.
Dark Pangolin
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#62 - 2011-12-20 22:53:40 UTC
Tim Brewer wrote:
After that didn't work out we didn't want to go back to the same thing. We felt we owned Black Rise to such a degree that we lost good pvp'ers to boredom before we left. Hence we went with the other logical solution - join Amarr. Qoute


LolLolLol Wolfsbrigade owning black rise ? LolLolLol Orca syndicate used to crush you and all your buddies daily in black rise, toooo the point that you guys bailed out as well as a few others. You even tried to team up with Raven Federation and still failed.

I wouldn't go so far as saying we owned all of Black Rise, but we sure as hell owned the caldari home system *Enaluri* and the surrounding area for near a yr. TwistedPirate

PS.

Caldari is and always will be a joke Blink


Now tim if you mean owned as in when we all went to bed you hot dropped carriers on 6 BCs...then yes you owned...pro pee vee pee :)

Want to know the standard engagement practice i had for you guys?

Pilot 1 "They have an Armageddon and a Harb sitting in Aki..."
FC: "Check Aivoinen"
Piot 1: "Thanatos and Aarchon on scan..."
FC: "I'm going to bed"

I didn't see you doing that when we had 30 guys though...

Why must everyone wave their epeen. How do you delete forums and kill-mails?
Dark Pangolin
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#63 - 2011-12-20 22:55:07 UTC
Garbad theWeak wrote:
My experience in Caldari Militia was somewhat different.

I didn't observe calmil to be particularly poorly led, ununified, or disorganized (relative to the other militias). I saw several quality leaders and corps. It was simply a matter of gallente having more people in better ships. The average Calmil member simply does not have the SP or isk to properly ship and win outnumbered, and thus, 15 drakes > 10 drakes. Or worse, 15 abbys > 10 drakes. It wasn't a lack of willingness to fight or even skill, it was simple raw numbers.

A few nights of fighting consistently outnumbered with people titan bridging or undocking neut carriers and activity dropped even more. And tbh, this is probably the best strategy -- deny the gal blob fights until they get bored enough to move to 0.0 or switch sides again. But the good news is all it would take to turn it around is a good active 30 man corp and suddenly the pendulum swings the other way.


^ This
Cromwell Savage
The Screaming Seagulls
#64 - 2011-12-20 23:38:51 UTC
Communication and coordination between corps.

That's the main difference between Cal and Gall mil.

Each side has their share of shiney ships, blobs, carriers and every other excuse one can imagine.

The key to success as a "militia" is communication and coordination between corps.

You guys solve that riddle and the rest will fall into place with little effort....
Dark Pangolin
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#65 - 2011-12-21 04:47:21 UTC
Cromwell Savage wrote:
Communication and coordination between corps.

That's the main difference between Cal and Gall mil.

Each side has their share of shiney ships, blobs, carriers and every other excuse one can imagine.

The key to success as a "militia" is communication and coordination between corps.

You guys solve that riddle and the rest will fall into place with little effort....


#'s bro we are lacking solid pvp #s tehre are 10-15 guys who are active. Current top active corps for the month in CalMil are...

1. Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (The4...)
2. Nasranite Watch (Damar and friends currently in Amarr space)
3. State Protectorate (A few active unattached souls (Squat, Gavin, etc.))
4. Scourge of God (Mooxe...otherwise mostly they stay in Tama)
5. BioBreak Inc. (Who?)
6. Hole Plunderer's (I believe their CEO just joined Spiritus Draconis)
7. Black Sanctum (3-5 active guys that I see)
8. 1st MC (Who?)
9. Stargate Kommand (3-5 active EU guys)
10. ASPIRE Commandos (I believe they just left militia)

2 of those corps I never see in Black Rise or in fleets, 1 has left militia, 1 has had the CEO leave and start this thread. Add up all the active pee vee pee guys and you get 30 on a good day. 10-15 otherwise.

We have bled some good pilots and corps in the last 6 months. btw did I notice 2 new 70+ man corps join GalMil? Its a vicious feedback loop. People joint he winning side, and leave the losing side.

I don't disagree about communication. Believe it or not all the corps that are active are on the same coms and talking to each other. There are just never more than ~15 people on coms. You guys know, you have our mumble info.

I hold to my previous statements. New blood, new militia. Feedback loops suck. one new active 30 man corp would be great. 2 new active 70 man corps would be even better. I leave it to good pilots to make it happen.

Moar pew pew! That's all I ever want.
Damar Rocarion
Nasranite Watch
#66 - 2011-12-21 06:55:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Damar Rocarion
Garbad theWeak wrote:
deny the gal blob fights until they get bored enough to move to 0.0 or switch sides again. But the good news is all it would take to turn it around is a good active 30 man corp and suddenly the pendulum swings the other way.


I say it again. They wont leave FW because they thrive in environment where they can get some lopsided kills and call it a day. If something which is too heavy (Draketrain, PERVS) comes around, they are happy to sit docked and wait for the heavies to get bored and leave FW. Then they can come back out make forum threads how they pwn everything.

Why do you think SOTF returned to FW? For good fights? Bringing 100 guys to environment where they have at most 15-20 organized opponents? Lets not be under any illusion here.

I hope the Matar are not getting into same kind of lameness as frogs usually demonstrate. Yesterday me and Lancress took a fight in minor plex with hookbill/griffin against multiple destroyers and frigates (initially 2:1 odds, later 4:1). In the end we killed two thrashers, catalyst and rifter before being forced out (neither of us died). Quess what the response was to GF since we did consider it to be one with Lancress?

"You guys are cowards because you have a griffin!"
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2011-12-21 06:58:39 UTC
Do you ever get tired of not knowing what the **** you're talking about? I would have thought being wrong nearly all the time would get disheartening after a while.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2011-12-21 07:33:20 UTC
Well, Im just back from a long eve break. This is my third-ish stint in FW (was with FOOM and Handsome Millionaire Playboys before). Granted I wasnt in FW for long stints before, but this time I have had some of the best small gang fights I have had my entire time in EVE. I guess maybe because of the plexing changes? Or maybe because the caldari numbers are down, we just havent been seeing the blobs. Have seen a lot of 3-8 man fleet fights with QCATS and others, and it has been a blast. I have normal fleetfit ships, and fly some post-crucible experimental fits (read:failfit). No one gives me hell for them. There are lots of 'not-a-fleet' fleets. A call goes out - ships might be suggested - but never mandated, and no one gets sent home. As soon as there are enough folks for critical mass, we jump and fight with whatever ships we have on hand. Inter-corp comms are great.

My one observation as a new player who was in the FDU npc corp for a few weeks before joining QCATS is this: Why the heck is everyone so paranoid about spies? The people in general militia channel are generally shunned and ignored and have trouble getting in fleets or on voice comms. Its silly. The worst thing a spy can do in FW is get you into a fight - isnt that exactly why we are here?

IMHO there are noobs who join FW NCP corps and are really looking for guidance and just get ignored. They spend a few frstrating days or hours fling around and then quit. I think corps that are actively looking to grow should assign a person to that channel to give tips, advice, etc. Invite folks to fleets. Let them into your 'low tier' unsecured voice comms, etc. (Val Erian was kind enogh to do this for me this time around). Once they start building a combat record, the they are probably not a spy and can be recruited. Maybe there are people that just get missed in this channel on CalMil side too?

Sure, you might get a spai in a fleet every now and then but really - what is the worse a spy can do? They will tell the other side how to find your fleet and get you a fight. If the fleet has proper scouts out, they still wont get full-blown ambused. Spy or no.

Anyway, i hope the squids can recruit some new blood/corps. They still have a good base of folks that are excellent pvpers and willing to fight. A few more will make it more fun.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#69 - 2011-12-21 07:48:01 UTC
Dark Pangolin wrote:
[quote=Cromwell Savage]
We have bled some good pilots and corps in the last 6 months. btw did I notice 2 new 70+ man corps join GalMil? Its a vicious feedback loop. People joint he winning side, and leave the losing side.




It's always been this way TBH.. people will join the stronger side much more often than the weaker side. The average EVE player just wants easy access to gangs and easy KMs. It's much easier to get both if your on the side that is currently winning. Very few groups actually want the challenge of going against the odds.
Damar Rocarion
Nasranite Watch
#70 - 2011-12-21 07:48:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Damar Rocarion
Hrett wrote:
we just havent been seeing the blobs.


Where is the mysterious Caldari blob you speak off? I think last militia FC threw in the towel yesterday anyway since there is hardly a reason to undock in Black Rise anymore.

Oh and yesterday froggies rolled out with combined fleet of 70 with matar. And yet they say other side is the one with more numbers and bigger blobs.
NovaReon
Department of Moisture Evaporation
#71 - 2011-12-21 08:06:48 UTC
"Dark Pangolin" wrote:
Add up all the active pee vee pee guys and you get 30 on a good day. 10-15 otherwise.


I find it amusing that THE4 should complain about the lack of active people given that you booted a load of newbies off your roster recently. Numbers are a problem though, and I did indeed witness the accused curbstomping tendency of the Gallente side - they'd show up with a big-ass fleet only to bail once we had managed to gather similar numbers, or play gate games.

"Hrett" wrote:
My one observation as a new player who was in the FDU npc corp for a few weeks before joining QCATS is this: Why the heck is everyone so paranoid about spies?


This, this, and this again. First off, there isn't really anything a spy can do in FW aside from relaying your location, and loot wrecks before bailing if he sucks. Secondly, you will never catch a competent spy, ever. In the process however, you'll likely end up accusing and driving off aspiring pilots. Nobody likes a paranoid atmosphere in a corp/militia that's already fighting a losing battle.

Efficient intel especially during fleet fights was one thing the CalMil seemed to lack. A whole fleet of battleships dropped on our drake gang during a winning fight simply because nobody noticed them entering the system.

As it looks right now, I'd rather join the pirates than go back to FW.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#72 - 2011-12-21 08:11:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Bad Messenger
Diana Kim wrote:
No, really... what's wrong about forming in highsec? My point on this matter is simple: if FC asks to form in lowsec, he has reasons, if he asks to form in highsec, he has reasons too.
If you are talking about Nourv, it is very nice system to form a fleet: Jita is only a couple of jumps away, plus the system is swarmed with militia and forming fleet won't spike the system and alert possible enemy scouts, it's a really nice place to hide your fleet ;)


There is nothing wrong with basing in higsec, draketrain used to have base in Villore back in time we were in Caldari militia.
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#73 - 2011-12-21 08:26:11 UTC
Gallactica wrote:
Hidden Snake wrote:
Cali does not suck .... FCs sucks .... hell even I am back in FCing (accident imminent) after what I saw in past few months. all of them are thinking they are king of hills. Even forming in high sec makes me sick.

Enaluri is home of fat lazy cats ... usually took everybody 1 hour to organize enough to respond 1 pie BC harrashing around.

Just suck it up, shut ur holes and go out killing / plexing.

Oh yeah I am in smacking bandwagon again ....

.... please my smack enemies form one line (mob like behaviour makes me nervous).



I disagree tbh mate, the FC can only herd so much to get people in the right ships for the job he wants them to do.

A lot of the time when we form stuff and for eg its and armour fleet and someone brings something "unsuitable" he will either be given a ship to use by one of us in fleet, or be laughed at and cos we know he will die first and miss all the kills, usually they swap ships pretty quickly.

Also, alot of the time with people who fly together frequently if there isnt a "experienced" fc running things it still works pretty well on our side as the quality of the pilots behind you makes a hell of a difference.

Its very very rare if one our fc's derps he gets any stick tbh, experience or not as most people are happy at the fact that they have someone pointing them in the right direction as opposed to counting station spins. A lot of the time the FC is only as good as the fleet behind him..... "ffs shoot the effing primary"


dont agree .... one of the reasons IBS was more successful in the days of Galente blob was we were mobile and flexible (despite some murmuring in our lines about moving here and there) ... I had same experience from pie life with EAK. If u dont have superior numbers u have to be able to pack ur stuff and move. Problem of Caldari is that most of the leaders are not flexible and not able to think out of the box (Gallente has same, but u dont lack the numbers and sps). And also everybody has feeeling how big messiah he is (have need to crucify them all). As I said keep moving and shooting .... organization is something u have to sort too, but it is hard to sort it if people are lazy station huggers or band breaking fags. Once u get them out of the station box, they will be willing to join ur crazy ideas. Also less experienced players can see more experienced pilots do some good piloting (I am not a superstar, but can do some dirty sleazy tricks with some ships and noobs in my corp can see them in action).

Quality of pilots matters, quallity of FC matters, willingness to go out and try to fight 1 v 10 (in some weird setups or under diferent conditions) matters.
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#74 - 2011-12-21 09:56:57 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
No, really... what's wrong about forming in highsec? My point on this matter is simple: if FC asks to form in lowsec, he has reasons, if he asks to form in highsec, he has reasons too.
If you are talking about Nourv, it is very nice system to form a fleet: Jita is only a couple of jumps away, plus the system is swarmed with militia and forming fleet won't spike the system and alert possible enemy scouts, it's a really nice place to hide your fleet ;)


There is nothing wrong with basing in higsec, draketrain used to have base in Villore back in time we were in Caldari militia.


hehe ... well offered same to some caldari corps (similar system) and everybody thought I am crazy ;) ... basing in Gallente high sec has lot of advantages.
Chav Queen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#75 - 2011-12-21 13:33:20 UTC
I put the problem down to lack of decent plexing corps in the caldari.
Back in my time in the 22nd Blackrise we would top the plexing charts often and we had alot of fun doing it.
A group of newish players we learnt how to exist in low sec we learnt how to fight for plexes and we became very good at what we did in the end.
The restrictions on what ships could enter a plex made a level playing field that we exploited to our advantage.
Anyone who understands when and where to plex will understand how easy it is to get a fight in one.
Only those who have no understanding of what systems are the most contested and are closest to flipping will tell you plexing is boring because as well know if you go to a random system and plex it will be boring.

People tell you it is pointless but for me forming a large blob and flying from Nourv through tama down to old man star every day is even more pointless.
You could say everything in eve is infact pointless as its only a game. Personaly I like to play a game where my actions atleast have some consequence even it is simply a mark on the sov map.

I thought about returning a few times but the thought of that mindless Tama too OMS routine is enough to put me off.
Should a well orgainesd corp or two attempt to revive the old Caldari spirit I or atleast some of my alts would indeed be tempted.
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#76 - 2011-12-21 13:43:07 UTC
Chav Queen wrote:
I put the problem down to lack of decent plexing corps in the caldari.
Back in my time in the 22nd Blackrise we would top the plexing charts often and we had alot of fun doing it.
A group of newish players we learnt how to exist in low sec we learnt how to fight for plexes and we became very good at what we did in the end.
The restrictions on what ships could enter a plex made a level playing field that we exploited to our advantage.
Anyone who understands when and where to plex will understand how easy it is to get a fight in one.
Only those who have no understanding of what systems are the most contested and are closest to flipping will tell you plexing is boring because as well know if you go to a random system and plex it will be boring.

People tell you it is pointless but for me forming a large blob and flying from Nourv through tama down to old man star every day is even more pointless.
You could say everything in eve is infact pointless as its only a game. Personaly I like to play a game where my actions atleast have some consequence even it is simply a mark on the sov map.

I thought about returning a few times but the thought of that mindless Tama too OMS routine is enough to put me off.
Should a well orgainesd corp or two attempt to revive the old Caldari spirit I or atleast some of my alts would indeed be tempted.



<<< Snake is proud ex 22nd BRDU :)
Vordak Kallager
Descendance.
GoonSwarm.
#77 - 2011-12-21 15:44:57 UTC
Damar Rocarion wrote:
Garbad theWeak wrote:
deny the gal blob fights until they get bored enough to move to 0.0 or switch sides again. But the good news is all it would take to turn it around is a good active 30 man corp and suddenly the pendulum swings the other way.


I say it again. They wont leave FW because they thrive in environment where they can get some lopsided kills and call it a day. If something which is too heavy (Draketrain, PERVS) comes around, they are happy to sit docked and wait for the heavies to get bored and leave FW. Then they can come back out make forum threads how they pwn everything.

Why do you think SOTF returned to FW? For good fights? Bringing 100 guys to environment where they have at most 15-20 organized opponents? Lets not be under any illusion here.

I hope the Matar are not getting into same kind of lameness as frogs usually demonstrate. Yesterday me and Lancress took a fight in minor plex with hookbill/griffin against multiple destroyers and frigates (initially 2:1 odds, later 4:1). In the end we killed two thrashers, catalyst and rifter before being forced out (neither of us died). Quess what the response was to GF since we did consider it to be one with Lancress?

"You guys are cowards because you have a griffin!"


Gal/Cal, can you guys please take this wanker back? He cries more than Cry Loud and is more obnoxious and high-horsey than Flyinghotpocket. He also spins buttons all day which obviously raises questions about his sanity.

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.
NovaReon
Department of Moisture Evaporation
#78 - 2011-12-21 15:55:22 UTC
Vordak Kallager wrote:
Gal/Cal, can you guys please take this wanker back? He cries more than Cry Loud and is more obnoxious and high-horsey than Flyinghotpocket. He also spins buttons all day which obviously raises questions about his sanity.


Sorry. No receipt, no return.
Pamela Podpopper
Doomheim
#79 - 2011-12-21 16:22:32 UTC
DNLeviathan wrote:
i know alot of people say its cause its the carebear faction and ive used thaty excue myself many times. but now my view has changed. they shoot blues. why would anyone fleet up when they may get ganked by their own miltia buddies?
if itsnot that then they declare internal wardecs because a neutral alt was not made aware of and got ganked by blues.
3rd reason is they all demand that everyone plays the exact same way wether they like it or not. its a game, have fun, fly the way you want to fly and maybe JUST MAYBE more people would get involved.



Two words:

Damar
Rocarion
Pamela Podpopper
Doomheim
#80 - 2011-12-21 16:24:21 UTC
Damar Rocarion wrote:
Zeerover wrote:
[quote=Pulgy]the better corps in Gallente will tire of the lack of opposition and move elsewhere, balancing the sides - it's the circle of FW life.


Like hell they will. If any organised corp comes to Caldari side, the frogs stay docked and employ their well known strategy of "bore the enemy to death" until they can come out again and proceed to their usual hobby of ganking noobs since that's the enviroment where they thrive. Just look what happened with draketrain. No fleet fights were given after few attempts and froggies proceeded to wait it out because people like Lacco and Shana Tirii are quick to walk away if there is no fun to be had..




you are Eves Biggest Hypocrite