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Update regarding Multiboxing and input automation

First post First post First post
Author
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#3321 - 2015-02-05 01:57:09 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:
[That's fine. I'll continue to call you a botter, a cheater, a farmer and a peasant. Don't take it personally (and don't make it personal). All in good fun.

I always thought ISBoxer looked like ISKBotter anyway P

And this is why nobody takes you seriously.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#3322 - 2015-02-05 02:05:45 UTC
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Marsha Mallow wrote:
[That's fine. I'll continue to call you a botter, a cheater, a farmer and a peasant. Don't take it personally (and don't make it personal). All in good fun.

I always thought ISBoxer looked like ISKBotter anyway P

And this is why nobody takes you seriously.


Except for CCP, since they banned ISBotter.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaphrah
Thats my BOI
#3323 - 2015-02-05 02:06:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaphrah
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Nolak Ataru wrote:
You can petition to fix lower-case names within 30 days or so from creation. Anything afterwards is up in the air.

If you were an actual critic, you'd (try to) bring up reasons why ISBoxer is bad, or how it's cheating, or pay2win. Since you're not, you're a troll. And I'll continue to call you a troll until you try to bring up an argument against ISBoxer that cannot be used against having two accounts online at once, or programs and websites such as Fuzzworks, Pyfa, or EVEMon.

By the way, they still haven't classified us as bots. Re-read the blog. Bots are automated programs that don't need a person behind the keyboard to operate.

Quote:
... software ... confers an unfair benefit to players...

[Citation Needed]

That's fine. I'll continue to call you a botter, a cheater, a farmer and a peasant. Don't take it personally (and don't make it personal). All in good fun.

I always thought ISBoxer looked like ISKBotter anyway P



thx for telling us the reason of your hating here without any useful arguments.
"He has more ISK than me. He uses ISBoxer, I don't. That must be the reason."

jealous people everywhere. Am I also a botter if I use something different like eve overview which is promoted here in the forums for multiboxing? Am I a botter if I'm freaking good and fast with my keyboard and just have really amazing skills, even without any software? Is it unfair if I had the money for 4 GPUs and 10 monitors?

tl;dr all you said: You have something I don't have, CCP pls fix it for me.

Ban people. My brain can manage to send information to the keyboard very fast, this is an advantage over people like you.

OT: dunno, have to share this ...
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#3324 - 2015-02-05 02:16:12 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Marsha Mallow wrote:
[That's fine. I'll continue to call you a botter, a cheater, a farmer and a peasant. Don't take it personally (and don't make it personal). All in good fun.
I always thought ISBoxer looked like ISKBotter anyway P

And this is why nobody takes you seriously.

Except for CCP, since they banned ISBotter.


I doubt very much they take Marsha seriously, ban or no ban.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#3325 - 2015-02-05 03:34:49 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Trakow wrote:
Well, I finally got a response from CCP regarding their true stance on things and how THEY interpret their EULA, which in the end, is all that matters.

*Snip* Please refrain from posting GM correspondence. ISD Ezwal.

So basically, get caught, get banned, end of story. Little workarounds like videofx overlays and round-robin are included in bannable "features"/software.

My discussion with them continues. And I'm also learning about their little spy method and how it works. Quite simple and effective, to the point where if you get caught using the software, you can't deny using it after they even tell you what version of the software you're using. LOL

And yes, the banning has commenced. And thanks to that, I now have my wormhole all to myself since the other resident who lived in it got banned for round-robin use. He was flying his 8 BC's back and forth through the wormholes to force them closed and try to block me from getting back in. It was quite annoying. But now I've had all the time in the world to destroy his POS and everything in it. Quite the loot too. He's gonna be pissed when he logs back in LMAO

See you all in space! Twisted

OK seems what is being said is - A player can be banned for using IsBoxer's videoFX function, because it changes the way the game is played.
How exactly does it change the way the game is played? Is it any different to having 5 monitors with 10 characters side by side, or is that also likely to get someone banned? Or as in my case 4 monitors with between 7 and 9 characters.

How does Round Robin in any way change the way the game is played - 1 keypress = 1 action on 1 character.
I use only Eve Shortcuts, with key presses setup to suit my needs. Being a lefty the most commonly used shortcuts are assigned to my numpad and without boasting, I am pretty quick at getting done what I need to in a given situation.
Setting up round robin key presses is fully supported via Eve Shortcuts - Yet it seems you can be banned for using them.
(I think CCP Peligro needs to clarify what is and isn't illegal - If using the Eve Shortcuts feature is likely to get players banned, it should be removed)



CCP Advertising;
Never fly alone again, start a buddy account with 60 days included training
and the warning that now needs to be attached to it;
Just don't get good at using both characters together or you risk being banned.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate
#3326 - 2015-02-05 04:39:22 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:

OK seems what is being said is - A player can be banned for using IsBoxer's videoFX function, because it changes the way the game is played.
How exactly does it change the way the game is played? Is it any different to having 5 monitors with 10 characters side by side, or is that also likely to get someone banned? Or as in my case 4 monitors with between 7 and 9 characters.


Yes, it is different from using multiple monitors. That can go from a little bit different to vastly different, but either way its different. Just to answer the "is it any different" question.
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#3327 - 2015-02-05 04:42:43 UTC
Dirk MacGirk wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:

OK seems what is being said is - A player can be banned for using IsBoxer's videoFX function, because it changes the way the game is played.
How exactly does it change the way the game is played? Is it any different to having 5 monitors with 10 characters side by side, or is that also likely to get someone banned? Or as in my case 4 monitors with between 7 and 9 characters.


Yes, it is different from using multiple monitors. That can go from a little bit different to vastly different, but either way its different. Just to answer the "is it any different" question.

Right.
Multiple monitors gives a player more space to place chat boxes, cargo space, and d-scans, while VideoFX takes away from a player's free space. Totally the same thing.
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#3328 - 2015-02-05 10:28:57 UTC
Holy smokes. That is a long winded way of saying "we band whoever the **** we want".

I run linix. My OS lets me do round robin! And change the look? change how the game looks? Seriously?

So really what they are saying is "you can pay for multiboxing accounts" But by god you work out how to use them we can ban you.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.

ShadowandLight
Trigger Happy Capsuleers
#3329 - 2015-02-05 10:43:32 UTC
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
Holy smokes. That is a long winded way of saying "we band whoever the **** we want".

I run linix. My OS lets me do round robin! And change the look? change how the game looks? Seriously?

So really what they are saying is "you can pay for multiboxing accounts" But by god you work out how to use them we can ban you.


understand they are being extremely vague on purpose in order to not get boxed into a corner if there is a policy change higher up in CCP or 3rd party software starts to cross a line they have drawn in their mind.

CCP Peligro during the CSM 9 Summer Summit was actually one of our strongest defenders. He personally seems to think that multiboxing, isboxer etc are all great for EVE and the community, but when it comes down to brass tacks he has a job to do based on what his supervisors deem is the current EULA interpretation.

Notice they never changed the EULA though, which i find extremely interesting.

However his job at CCP requires him to ride the fence on these issues. He's not in charge of policy at CCP, just enforcement.
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3330 - 2015-02-05 14:43:37 UTC
I know I'm late to the party, but isn't the rule basically that multiple ships effectively slaved to one set of controls, by whatever method, so that they all operate in parallel, is against the rules?

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt

Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#3331 - 2015-02-05 14:54:11 UTC
Marc Callan wrote:
I know I'm late to the party, but isn't the rule basically that multiple ships effectively slaved to one set of controls, by whatever method, so that they all operate in parallel, is against the rules?

In parallel, yes. However, people found a way to do it in series (one after another) and they too are getting punished. Chances are, the local miner in your belt is using round robin broadcasting, or is just fleet warping + alt-tabbing. Be warned that repeated false reports will get your account punished as well.
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3332 - 2015-02-05 15:38:20 UTC
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Marc Callan wrote:
I know I'm late to the party, but isn't the rule basically that multiple ships effectively slaved to one set of controls, by whatever method, so that they all operate in parallel, is against the rules?

In parallel, yes. However, people found a way to do it in series (one after another) and they too are getting punished. Chances are, the local miner in your belt is using round robin broadcasting, or is just fleet warping + alt-tabbing. Be warned that repeated false reports will get your account punished as well.


Maybe I shouldn't have used the word "parallel"; would "acting in concert" be better? Because whether the command entry is parallel or serial, the effect seems to be the same: one person controlling several ships as though they were all locked to a single set of controls. And as far as I can tell, the end result - multiple ships moving in lockstep - is what CCP is trying to smack down.

And ... "repeated false reports?" Where'd that come from?

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt

Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#3333 - 2015-02-05 15:46:50 UTC
Marc Callan wrote:
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Marc Callan wrote:
I know I'm late to the party, but isn't the rule basically that multiple ships effectively slaved to one set of controls, by whatever method, so that they all operate in parallel, is against the rules?

In parallel, yes. However, people found a way to do it in series (one after another) and they too are getting punished. Chances are, the local miner in your belt is using round robin broadcasting, or is just fleet warping + alt-tabbing. Be warned that repeated false reports will get your account punished as well.


Maybe I shouldn't have used the word "parallel"; would "acting in concert" be better? Because whether the command entry is parallel or serial, the effect seems to be the same: one person controlling several ships as though they were all locked to a single set of controls. And as far as I can tell, the end result - multiple ships moving in lockstep - is what CCP is trying to smack down.

And ... "repeated false reports?" Where'd that come from?

Well, CCP banned straight broadcasting, i.e. "parallel". Round Robin Broadcasting, "series", is/was allowed by their new interpretation under the "multiple actions for multiple clients". So using RRB, the ships aren't in "lock step" and should fall on the legal side of the EULA.

I apologize for any misinterpretation of "repeated false reports" and targeting you specifically. I was just attempting to warn the general population that repeatedly reporting a person / group for an action that is perceived to be against the EULA, and a GM or CCP tells you that it's allowed, if you continue to file reports against that person, you (the general "you") may be punished for abuse of the report system.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#3334 - 2015-02-05 15:55:38 UTC
I'm wondering if Sisi will react to Logitech G-keys like TQ in detection and potential bans? I spent some time testing G-key binds last night, and my characters aren't banned, which is almost good news. I'm not sure if Sisi testing is the same thing.

I discovered the Ctrl+F1-F8 of activating the bottom rack of modules runs into issues of locking selected overview items instead of activating modules. The result is erroneous locks and the normal top rack of F1-F8 being activated. This is particularly consequential for modules like triage and siege.

What I had to do was move my bottom rack of modules into the middle rack, and use Alt+F1-F8. The Logitech bind itself is F1-F8, and to use it I had to hold down Alt. So: Alt+G-key. I used this for activating my tank. Particularly handy for travel and breaking cloak after gate jumps.

Thankfully, the Alt key press is valid through client changes: Alt, click client, G-key, click client, G-key, etc.

The other simple bind was F1, F2, F3, F5, F6, F7 for my six-link warfare booster (impractical Sisi fit).

Still not feeling gutsy enough to try this on TQ.
Lunadria
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3335 - 2015-02-05 17:57:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Lunadria
Trakow wrote:
And thanks to that, I now have my wormhole all to myself since the other resident who lived in it got banned for round-robin use. He was flying his 8 BC's back and forth through the wormholes to force them closed and try to block me from getting back in. It was quite annoying. But now I've had all the time in the world to destroy his POS and everything in it. Quite the loot too. He's gonna be pissed when he logs back in LMAO

See you all in space! Twisted


1. Trakow you are a liar !!!
2. I live in the WH since Jan 06, 2014 look in the killboard i saw you first in Dec, 2014 in it !
https://zkillboard.com/system/31000247/
3. if you want i can post the ingame mails you send to me from your main and alt char to prove that you are a liar !!!
ShadowandLight
Trigger Happy Capsuleers
#3336 - 2015-02-05 18:23:11 UTC
Lunadria wrote:
Trakow wrote:
And thanks to that, I now have my wormhole all to myself since the other resident who lived in it got banned for round-robin use. He was flying his 8 BC's back and forth through the wormholes to force them closed and try to block me from getting back in. It was quite annoying. But now I've had all the time in the world to destroy his POS and everything in it. Quite the loot too. He's gonna be pissed when he logs back in LMAO

See you all in space! Twisted


1. Trakow you are a liar !!!
2. I live in the WH since Jan 06, 2014 look in the killboard i saw you first in Dec, 2014 in it !
https://zkillboard.com/system/31000247/
3. if you want i can post the ingame mails you send to me from your main and alt char to prove that you are a liar !!!


Hey you two get off my lawn!

Crime and punishment is down to the hall and Wormhole dirty blobbers are right next door!
Trakow
Beta Switch
#3337 - 2015-02-05 18:24:39 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:

OK seems what is being said is - A player can be banned for using IsBoxer's videoFX function, because it changes the way the game is played.
How exactly does it change the way the game is played? Is it any different to having 5 monitors with 10 characters side by side, or is that also likely to get someone banned? Or as in my case 4 monitors with between 7 and 9 characters.


Completely different because of the space in between windows. VideoFX can place everything you need all next to each other in a small space which makes it much easier to click on everything within seconds. If you have 5 monitors you need to move your mouse from screen to screen and isn't as easy. So, VideoFX is changing the way the game is displayed and how you play it.

Lunadria wrote:
Trakow wrote:
And thanks to that, I now have my wormhole all to myself since the other resident who lived in it got banned for round-robin use. He was flying his 8 BC's back and forth through the wormholes to force them closed and try to block me from getting back in. It was quite annoying. But now I've had all the time in the world to destroy his POS and everything in it. Quite the loot too. He's gonna be pissed when he logs back in LMAO

See you all in space! Twisted


1. Trakow you are a liar !!!
2. I live in the WH since Jan 06, 2014 look in the killboard i saw you first in Dec, 2014 in it !
https://zkillboard.com/system/31000247/
3. if you want i can post the ingame mails you send to me from your main and alt char to prove that you are a liar !!!


Negative. I've been out of there for a long long time, and I'm not talking about this character(Trakow) either. ALL my characters live in wormholes.... However, I did also report you. I never bothered to try staying in your WH because there were 3 POSes already. I did find a WH system through yours though that had one POS in it. So my alt set up in there and he was doing the same crap you did. I only use Trakow to scout and talk on this forum :P
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#3338 - 2015-02-05 18:26:20 UTC
With 4 monitors in a square, you can activate modules on each of them fairly fast if you simply stick to the corners in the center of the setup. So, banhammer.
Trakow
Beta Switch
#3339 - 2015-02-05 18:44:39 UTC
Nolak Ataru wrote:
With 4 monitors in a square, you can activate modules on each of them fairly fast if you simply stick to the corners in the center of the setup. So, banhammer.


Well there you go, so just do that. You just proved that you can play just as easily without using VideoFX, so why use it?
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#3340 - 2015-02-05 18:56:00 UTC
Trakow wrote:
Nolak Ataru wrote:
With 4 monitors in a square, you can activate modules on each of them fairly fast if you simply stick to the corners in the center of the setup. So, banhammer.

Well there you go, so just do that. You just proved that you can play just as easily without using VideoFX, so why use it?


No, I just proved that player solutions can get you banned for playing EVE without the use of ISBoxer.