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[GMVA] Congratulations on President Roden's Victory

Author
Rinai Vero
Blades of Liberty
#21 - 2015-02-02 16:44:44 UTC
Stitcher wrote:



The use of the word "we" does typically indicate that the speaker is claiming membership in the group being discussed...


I'm glad I'm not the only one who took that meaning. Its the phrasing in the earlier sentence that threw me. I think I read something like "Continue to call us U-Nats what you want, but that will not make it true."

Which means the exact opposite of "Continue to call us U-Nats as much as you want, but that will not make it true."
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#22 - 2015-02-02 16:55:26 UTC
One of those translation and reading problems. I confess, on first skim I got the meaning backwards as well.

They happen.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Rinai Vero
Blades of Liberty
#23 - 2015-02-02 17:03:12 UTC
KaRa DaVuT wrote:
And for Rinai Vero, well honestly you are no different than him...

Guess what, you and your kind are slackers who always support the conflic, because you gain from the conflic, you do not care the civillian casualities..

Mayor Shaileen Remnev should be the victor of this election. I still thank her for trying.

At least we now know the real faces of people.


Actually, I probably have more in common personally with Mayor Remnev than any political candidate I've ever encountered. That's including my mother, when she was making an attempt at a political career. Honestly, its uncanny.

I believe you make a number of assumptions about my motivations and character that have no basis in fact or history. I'll leave it to you to either find out more about me, or not. Makes little difference.

My work with the Gallente Militia, my work security contracting for Roden Shipyards, and anything else I do as a Capsuleer comes at the cost of many lives. That is who we are, we Empyreans. All I can hope is that what I do saves more lives in the end.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#24 - 2015-02-02 18:19:47 UTC
I would like to congratulate the Federation on a very pragmatic and cautious choice for their new President, a choice sacrificing political ideals for realpolitik.

Often the Federation has been accused of putting pie in the sky dreams over the cold, harsh, light of day. I see you have not done so this time. President Roden's vision of increased powers to the security services and the temporary suspension of certain rights and prerogatives should ensure that the Black Eagles and other paramilitary quasi-legal enforcement divisions can pursue disloyalty freely, wherever it lies, even in the hearts and minds of your citizens.

Roden will, I'm sure, ensure that his shipyards continue to mass-produce potent weapons of war, just as his foreign policy and internal policy ensure that your government will never be short of targets to turn them on - enemies, allies and, failing all else, your own people.

Dark humour aside, we have perhaps grown used to counting on the Federation for far-reaching and ambitious programs of visionary politics. Love or hate the Gallente, one cannot argue that it has traditionally been the empire where bright, shining towers of hopes and dreams have been attempted. No more.

Finally I see a Federation focused on the bottom line, on security and safety and on not promising too much. It's depressing.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Gwen Ikiryo
Alexylva Paradox
#25 - 2015-02-03 04:46:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Gwen Ikiryo
The Federation is more fluid then a lot of people give it credit for. Roden is not their first flirtation with nationalist conservatism, nor are the Black Eagles their first fliration with quasi-totalitarian law enforcement - In both cases, the honor goes to the U-Nats, though there are many others that have come close. It'll likely default back in the other direction sooner or later. It's a quick ship to turn, far quicker then any other of it's size in the cluster. Though it's debateable if that is a good thing.

It is also good to remember that if Roden is a ripple in the Federal pond, Tibus Heth was the pebble. He is a natural result of the States invasion, it's "fault", to whatever point you can assign it to something as abstract and tremendous in scale as interstellar politics.
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2015-02-03 04:51:13 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
I would like to congratulate the Federation on a very pragmatic and cautious choice for their new President, a choice sacrificing political ideals for realpolitik.

Often the Federation has been accused of putting pie in the sky dreams over the cold, harsh, light of day. I see you have not done so this time. President Roden's vision of increased powers to the security services and the temporary suspension of certain rights and prerogatives should ensure that the Black Eagles and other paramilitary quasi-legal enforcement divisions can pursue disloyalty freely, wherever it lies, even in the hearts and minds of your citizens.

Roden will, I'm sure, ensure that his shipyards continue to mass-produce potent weapons of war, just as his foreign policy and internal policy ensure that your government will never be short of targets to turn them on - enemies, allies and, failing all else, your own people.

Dark humour aside, we have perhaps grown used to counting on the Federation for far-reaching and ambitious programs of visionary politics. Love or hate the Gallente, one cannot argue that it has traditionally been the empire where bright, shining towers of hopes and dreams have been attempted. No more.

Finally I see a Federation focused on the bottom line, on security and safety and on not promising too much. It's depressing.


Hopes and dreams never put bread and coffee on the table nor keep the interlopers out of the door. Now that the interlopers really ARE at the door, at least by the Fed POV, all those hopes and dreams had to be dumped in favour of more boarding materials, barricades and lots of heavy bludgeoning objects. Support will be given to those who offer more of each.

Also realpolitik best politik.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#27 - 2015-02-03 04:56:10 UTC
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:
The Federation is more fluid then a lot of people give it credit for. Roden is not their first flirtation with nationalist conservatism, nor are the Black Eagles their first fliration with quasi-totalitarian law enforcement - In both cases, the honor goes to the U-Nats, though there are many others that have come close. It'll likely default back in the other direction sooner or later. It's a quick ship to turn, far quicker then any other of it's size in the cluster. Though it's debateable if that is a good thing.

It is also good to remember that if Roden is a ripple in the Federal pond, Tibus Heth was the pebble. He is a natural result of the States invasion, it's "fault", to whatever point you can assign it to something as abstract and tremendous in scale as interstellar politics.

That's the only imperfection of Tibus Heth: he was just the pebble. He got us our homeworld, but he believed words of gallenteans, that they will give our home back. Word of gallentean lasted only five years.

We don't need pebbles anymore. We need whole BOMB to throw into their pond, bomb so powerful so it not just cause ripples, but dry this damn filthy water out. Bomb so powerful, that will teach them respect. So powerful, it will not just make them sign peace, but will FORCE them to follow peace, so they won't ever dare to raise weapons on us.

FOR THE STATE!

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Rinai Vero
Blades of Liberty
#28 - 2015-02-03 06:13:52 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

President Roden's vision of increased powers to the security services and the temporary suspension of certain rights and prerogatives should ensure that the Black Eagles and other paramilitary quasi-legal enforcement divisions can pursue disloyalty freely, wherever it lies, even in the hearts and minds of your citizens.


Laying it on a bit thick there, aren't we? "Dark humor" though it may be, lets be clear that "increased powers to the security services" ect was the status quo when Roden took office. The Black Eagles weren't his vision, but they are the reality he finds himself with.

Honestly, has the State ever suffered a betrayal by one of its own on the scale of Anvent Eturrer? Of Alexander Noir? Can we help but to be traumatized?


Pieter Tuulinen wrote:


Finally I see a Federation focused on the bottom line, on security and safety and on not promising too much. It's depressing.


In this, I see so much irony. It seems as if the more like the Caldari we become, the more the Caldari dislike what they see reflected. Jacus Roden is the closest thing to a Caldari President our Federation has ever had, and so many in the State act as if he is a storybook monster.

I can't blame my fellow Gallenta for being disturbed by President Roden, as much as I support his Administration. It is true that these are hard times, and that he is a hard leader. I find it much harder to swallow Caldari intransigence and hostility towards him.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#29 - 2015-02-03 06:27:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Pieter Tuulinen
If it's ironic to you, imagine how ironic it is for me - but I fear we lost the idealistic neighbour who did awful things out of the best of intentions and wound up with a cold-eyed neighbour who does awful things out of expediency. And no, I'm not laying it on too thick. I've had the Black Eagles pointed at me and, like many Caldari who've done time in Black Rise, I've seen the labour camps. The execution trenches. The mass graves.

But you're right, perhaps we see the part of ourselves we don't like so well when we look at Jacus Roden. What should be keeping you up at night is not the irony of the Caldari not enjoying the view in the mirror, but how Roden makes you into a caricature of us in the name of fighting us.

And you're quite happy to go along with it.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#30 - 2015-02-03 20:26:23 UTC
Rinai Vero wrote:
[quote=Pieter Tuulinen]
Honestly, has the State ever suffered a betrayal by one of its own on the scale of Anvent Eturrer? Of Alexander Noir? Can we help but to be traumatized?


I may be wrong but I am pretty sure that the Federation are not the only one 'traumatized'.
Rinai Vero
Blades of Liberty
#31 - 2015-02-03 21:48:08 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
I may be wrong but I am pretty sure that the Federation are not the only one 'traumatized'.


You may be right about that, but I am entirely sure that I never said we were the only ones. I know we weren't, and I have no desire to play the "who's been the most oppressed / abused / ect" game.

Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
If it's ironic to you, imagine how ironic it is for me - but I fear we lost the idealistic neighbour who did awful things out of the best of intentions and wound up with a cold-eyed neighbour who does awful things out of expediency. And no, I'm not laying it on too thick. I've had the Black Eagles pointed at me and, like many Caldari who've done time in Black Rise, I've seen the labour camps. The execution trenches. The mass graves.

But you're right, perhaps we see the part of ourselves we don't like so well when we look at Jacus Roden. What should be keeping you up at night is not the irony of the Caldari not enjoying the view in the mirror, but how Roden makes you into a caricature of us in the name of fighting us.

And you're quite happy to go along with it.


We've both seen enough to know there are no innocents in War.

As for my happiness, there you have overstepped. I'll be happy when I can congratulate our newly elected President from a party wearing a slinky dress instead of from a combat zone and in uniform. What happiness I'm blessed to keep in my life is in spite of this war and not because of it.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#32 - 2015-02-03 21:54:57 UTC
Rinai Vero wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
I may be wrong but I am pretty sure that the Federation are not the only one 'traumatized'.


You may be right about that, but I am entirely sure that I never said we were the only ones. I know we weren't, and I have no desire to play the "who's been the most oppressed / abused / ect" game.


Uh well, that was a more polite way of me to say basically the same thing : you sounded like you were actually trying to play that game by stating that the State has never been traumatized by such betrayals ?

I apologize if I understood it incorrectly.
Rinai Vero
Blades of Liberty
#33 - 2015-02-03 22:07:43 UTC
Rinai Vero wrote:
Honestly, has the State ever suffered a betrayal by one of its own on the scale of Anvent Eturrer? Of Alexander Noir? Can we help but to be traumatized?


I think I qualified what I said well enough to confine my inquiry within its specific context. As far as I know the actions of Anvent Eturrer and Alexander Noir are unique in their scale within the Federation, and have no close parallel in Caldari State history.

Maybe our Amarrian colleagues could provide their perspective. I gather there are some rather notorious instances of treason within the ranks of the Imperial Navy, among Noble Houses, and within their religious hierarchy.
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#34 - 2015-02-03 22:59:28 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
I would like to congratulate the Federation on a very pragmatic and cautious choice for their new President, a choice sacrificing political ideals for realpolitik.

Often the Federation has been accused of putting pie in the sky dreams over the cold, harsh, light of day. I see you have not done so this time. President Roden's vision of increased powers to the security services and the temporary suspension of certain rights and prerogatives should ensure that the Black Eagles and other paramilitary quasi-legal enforcement divisions can pursue disloyalty freely, wherever it lies, even in the hearts and minds of your citizens.

Roden will, I'm sure, ensure that his shipyards continue to mass-produce potent weapons of war, just as his foreign policy and internal policy ensure that your government will never be short of targets to turn them on - enemies, allies and, failing all else, your own people.

Dark humour aside, we have perhaps grown used to counting on the Federation for far-reaching and ambitious programs of visionary politics. Love or hate the Gallente, one cannot argue that it has traditionally been the empire where bright, shining towers of hopes and dreams have been attempted. No more.

Finally I see a Federation focused on the bottom line, on security and safety and on not promising too much. It's depressing.

Oh dear we have disappointed Pieter.

Indeed, I stand amazed at how rapidly minds are changing along with attitudes.

But then in large part we have your beloved State to thank for that.

I suppose congratulations are in order?

After all you have what you wanted... don't you?
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#35 - 2015-02-03 23:31:29 UTC
You've depressed me, not disappointed me. I appreciate a government that is run along the lines of pragmatism and efficiency although, of course, without the driving force of collectivism it remains to be seen whether the benefits will reach all levels of your society.

But you have been creatures of your desire for unattainable goals of fairness and freedom for so long that I wonder what you'd turn into if you threw those desires away for any real length of time. We'll see, I suppose - at the very least you should now be more predictable.

Am I getting what I want? I never expected the universe to deliver that up to me. I suppose we are still cracking on with the handover and the peace process. Most of the other changes that will likely come about from this election will involve Federation citizens far more than they'll involve me. Are you all happy? Getting what you always wanted?

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Nomistrav
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2015-02-04 20:55:29 UTC
A shame, really. I was hoping that someone who would understand the Intaki plight would have been elected; Councilman Eilaron. Or perhaps someone who had seen what we had gone through first hand at the Battle of Caldari Prime, such as Ramnev... I've still a dear friend who saw the Leviathan crash into the planet when he was fighting on the ground there.

Perhaps Roden would use his second term to consider that we Intaki still exist in the Federation? That, perhaps, dependence on Mordu's Legion and Ishukone for support isn't a long-term solution to the ongoing war between the Federation and the State..?

This isn't even mentioning the vulnerabilities toward infantry who seem to toil and play with Intaki Prime, using it as their personal playground for... "Tournaments"...

What voice do the Intaki have within the Federation? Why should we be expected to fight for it if they will not fight for us?

"As long as space endures,

as long as sentient beings exist,

until then, may I too remain

and dispel the miseries of the world."

~ Vremaja Idama

Bataav
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
#37 - 2015-02-04 23:00:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Bataav
Namas Nomistrav.

It's been a long time.


You'll need to take care with your assertions of neglect from the Federal powers-that-be.

In my experience that line of thinking tends to attract the almost inevitable response, from some within the Federal Militia, that "Intaki requested minimal protection at the founding of the Federation" and so the fact that the challenges of today's New Eden are greatly different to generations ago is handwaved aside as conveniently irrelevent. Instead we must make do and be satisfied with minimal Federal military intervention.

Paradoxically we are also told that it is only Federal forces can truly protect Intaki from the imminent threat that is the Caldari State.


For example during another discussion on the recent election I was asked what opposition had groups such as the ILF offered in the face of Heth's Provists? It's a fair enough question and I'll answer it here.

We offered the greatest opposition we had.

We refused to bow to Provist pressure and continued to work hard in Intaki's interests. It was the ILF who rallied around the Homeworld in the wake of the occupation and began the Intaki V Relief Effort. It was the ILF who followed the Intaki Assembly's lead and built bridges, partnering with Ishukone groups such as I-RED, investing in local infrastructure and economic initiatives.

To change who and what we were, how we operate and the things we hope to achieve would have been to admit defeat. Instead we showed Heth and his Provists that despite their wishes, the ILF and the Intaki system would remain independent of their influence.


Regarding Mordu's Legion, while there's some truth to the current security contract not being a permanent solution to Intaki's security concerns, I believe it's been a great step in the right direction. It illustrated the Assembly's ability to act when necessary, and provides a foundation upon which a long term domestic solution can be built.

Remember, it was Mordu's Legion, not FedMil, that fought for Intaki interests and defeated Provist forcess who had assaulted Ishukone assets on Intaki V, in early YC115.
iyammarrok
Drunken Beaver Mining
Gnawthority
#38 - 2015-02-04 23:20:28 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
If it's ironic to you, imagine how ironic it is for me - but I fear we lost the idealistic neighbour who did awful things out of the best of intentions and wound up with a cold-eyed neighbour who does awful things out of expediency. And no, I'm not laying it on too thick. I've had the Black Eagles pointed at me and, like many Caldari who've done time in Black Rise, I've seen the labour camps. The execution trenches. The mass graves.



Black Eagles.
Dragonaurs.

All governments it seems have their black flags.
Before anyone tries to tar another, best to be sure you've not caught yourself with the same brush.

Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#39 - 2015-02-04 23:23:51 UTC
iyammarrok wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
If it's ironic to you, imagine how ironic it is for me - but I fear we lost the idealistic neighbour who did awful things out of the best of intentions and wound up with a cold-eyed neighbour who does awful things out of expediency. And no, I'm not laying it on too thick. I've had the Black Eagles pointed at me and, like many Caldari who've done time in Black Rise, I've seen the labour camps. The execution trenches. The mass graves.



Black Eagles.
Dragonaurs.

All governments it seems have their black flags.
Before anyone tries to tar another, best to be sure you've not caught yourself with the same brush.


I remember the Dragonaurs. I remember them being criminals, briefly semi-rehabilitated and then I remember blowing a large number of them to dust, with the help of other Caldari Loyalists.

I'd refer you back to the time I pointed out that we kicked out our tyrant and dismantled his apparatus of fear.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Jukko Riis
Doomheim
#40 - 2015-02-04 23:50:38 UTC
iyammarrok wrote:


Black Eagles.
Dragonaurs.

All governments it seems have their black flags.
Before anyone tries to tar another, best to be sure you've not caught yourself with the same brush.



In the State, when we find people are guilty of corruption, war crimes and gross negligence, we end their careers.

We don't re-elect them.