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Moving a large cargo to/from W Space
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Noctaly
Core Industry.
Goonswarm Federation
#1 - 2015-02-04 12:54:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Noctaly
Hello there,

I recently joined a WH Corp few days ago, and I have the opportunity to extract tons of things from the planets. Nice way to do some passive money.

I am wondering on how to haul all those items, which are quite volume-heavy. I spent some time searching on the internet and I found some options :


  • An Epithal. Quite squishy, but able to haul 68.050 m³ with Gallente Industrial V
  • A Deep Space Transport, extremely more tanky but able to haul at least 62.500 m³ with Transports ships to 5.
  • An Orca can haul 77.500 m³ using the Fleet Hangar Capacity and Industrial Command Ship to 5


I still have some questions however :


  • As far as I know, it is not possible to enter C2 with Freighters, is it right ?
  • Can I enter in W Space with an Orca, or is it too big ?
  • Can the fleet hangar in the Orca and in the DST be used for hauling PI Commodities, or only ships ?


I may go up to 250.000 m³ a day of hauling, and I am looking for options to decrease as much as possible the hauling time. Any suggestion is welcomed :D
Davey Talvanen
Kingsparrow Wormhole Division
Birds of Prey.
#2 - 2015-02-04 13:05:04 UTC
Use a transport ship (the cloaky one) to move around items in W-space and don't use an orca (no matter what) as its a mining booster ship not a cargo ship(it is a cargo ship but is mainly used to bonus miners)
Noctaly
Core Industry.
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2015-02-04 13:07:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Noctaly
Davey Talvanen wrote:
Use a transport ship (the cloaky one) to move around items in W-space and don't use an orca (no matter what) as its a mining booster ship not a cargo ship(it is a cargo ship but is mainly used to bonus miners)


Problem with a Blockade Runner is that its capacity is extremely small while being squishy aswell. Since my trips will mainly be HighSec -> WH highsec side -> WH highsec side -> POS, would I really need to be cloaky ?

I could also eventually move a scout or a PvP ship next to the Wormhole in the C2 side for some "prevention" and scaring people who would like to bump me or stab me.
Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4 - 2015-02-04 14:01:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Cara Forelli
Noctaly wrote:
I still have some questions however :


  • As far as I know, it is not possible to enter C2 with Freighters, is it right ?
  • Can I enter in W Space with an Orca, or is it too big ?
  • Can the fleet hangar in the Orca and in the DST be used for hauling PI Commodities, or only ships ?


-No, Freighters cannot enter C2s. They are restricted to C5/C6 because of wormhole mass limits.
-Yes, you can bring an Orca into wormhole space. I can't recall if they fit into a C2. Look up the mass limit on your static connection and check.
-Yes, you can use the fleet hangar for PI, or any other item. The ship maintenence bay is where ships are stored.

I suggest an epithal with three warp core stabilizers and a nanofiber, with as much shield buffer as you can fit. It's unlikely anything will be able to alpha you before you can warp, so you'll be pretty much safe unless you are being actively hunted or run into a bubble. Scouting ahead is always a good idea.

Edit:

Noctaly wrote:
Since my trips will mainly be HighSec -> WH highsec side -> WH highsec side -> POS, would I really need to be cloaky ?

In this case the only time you are vulnerable is on the way back in as you are warping off the hole (and your hold is probably empty). It's almost a non issue. Most people don't even pick fights on high sec wormholes as you can always just jump back through to safety.

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament
Noctaly
Core Industry.
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2015-02-04 14:31:12 UTC
Well that mostly cover the whole issue. Thanks a lot Cara for the detailled answers :D
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2015-02-04 14:42:16 UTC
deep space transports (non cloaky) have high resists, ehp and +2 base warp strength AND a fleet hangar.

This allows them to carry over 70km3

Art of Explosions
Noctaly
Core Industry.
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2015-02-04 15:05:39 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
deep space transports (non cloaky) have high resists, ehp and +2 base warp strength AND a fleet hangar.

This allows them to carry over 70km3

My actual plan is to skill toward the Occator which will increase my Epithal capacity until I can switch to a DST :D
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#8 - 2015-02-04 15:17:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
For large C2 hauling you can use an Orca. When I lived in a C2, every member of the corp had their own Orca.

It wasn't until we moved into a C5 that we used freighters and random wormholes (D792 & M555).

Since you are hauling direct to hisec, you can use an Epithal to haul PI also. Just warp to the hole and jump. Of course make sure the hole isn't bubbled before warping (dscan or an alt / friend watching the hole). You can't be stopped once in warp.

For collecting the PI from POCOs, you can use an Epithal too. They are cheap enough to lose if you leave the PI materials in the POCO if you spot an enemy when you land or warp out. They have to control the POCO to deny you access to your goods later.

~2.75 years in w-space and nobody in the corp ever lost a ship related to PI.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#9 - 2015-02-04 16:34:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Additional notes, in case not obvious:

* Don't warp POCO-to-POCO. It greatly increases your risk compared to POS-POCO-POS.
* Don't be predictable; randomize the order of planets you warp to. [You have plenty of time to plan your next POCO from the safety of the POS.]
* Don't be lazy. You only have to service at most six POCO.

Also: a DST with a MMJD & cloak is harder to catch, unless they bring a scrambler.

My Bustard DST has survived landing in a small bubble (I did dscan, but I didn't immediately warp) dropped by an auto-cannon Hurricane. This was pre-MMJD, and I did an 180 turn, and got away with about 75% shield.
Noctaly
Core Industry.
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2015-02-04 18:04:24 UTC
I mainly did POCO to POCO, it may indeed be safer to come back to the POS each time. That's a good tip, thanks Big smile
Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#11 - 2015-02-04 18:33:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Cara Forelli
Tau Cabalander wrote:
* Don't warp POCO-to-POCO. It greatly increases your risk compared to POS-POCO-POS.

I'm not convinced that I agree with this. I have blown up quite a few epithals in wormhole space, and typically when I'm hunting an epithal I already have the POS staked out. Then I can simply watch which planet they warp to. Warping back to the POS also increases the total time you are sitting in an epithal, which gives the hunter more time to get organized.

How not to get blown up by Cara in your Epithal, A guide for the budding wormhole planet enthusiast


  • Do your POCO managment at the POS. You don't have to be sitting next to it to move stuff back and forth from your planets. Have the interface open already when you warp to it so you can scoop and go. You can be ready to align to the next planet before you even finish decelerating.
  • Do NOT sit in your epithal while you fiddle with PI, even at your POS. It is a beacon that says "Find me! Some time in the next 10 minutes I'm going to warp around with goodies!" Do your business in some other ship and swap at the last minute to your epithal to do the hauling runs.
  • Fit your epithal with buffer tank, warp core stabilizers, and nanofibers. You are in very little danger if you fit this way as nothing cloaky will have enough alpha to kill you in one shot and you can't be warp scrambled (except in extreme circumstances).


I have killed many, many epithals in wormhole space with a simple stealth bomber. The ones that survive are the ones that fit the way I recommended.

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2015-02-04 21:58:55 UTC
Noctaly wrote:
Hello there,

I recently joined a WH Corp few days ago, and I have the opportunity to extract tons of things from the planets. Nice way to do some passive money.

I am wondering on how to haul all those items, which are quite volume-heavy. I spent some time searching on the internet and I found some options :


  • An Epithal. Quite squishy, but able to haul 68.050 m³ with Gallente Industrial V
  • A Deep Space Transport, extremely more tanky but able to haul 56.400 m³ with Transports ships to 5.
  • An Orca can haul 77.500 m³ using the Fleet Hangar Capacity and Industrial Command Ship to 5


I still have some questions however :


  • As far as I know, it is not possible to enter C2 with Freighters, is it right ?
  • Can I enter in W Space with an Orca, or is it too big ?
  • Can the fleet hangar in the Orca and in the DST be used for hauling PI Commodities, or only ships ?


I may go up to 250.000 m³ a day of hauling, and I am looking for options to decrease as much as possible the hauling time. Any suggestion is welcomed :D

Those numbers look wrong.. DST fleet hangar starts at 50km3 and goes up to 62.5km3, and that's not including the base cargo bay.

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Noctaly
Core Industry.
Goonswarm Federation
#13 - 2015-02-05 16:45:43 UTC
The numbers were wrong indeed, I did the math for Industrial lvl 1 and not level 5. That's fixed.

One more question : Can I put Containers in the Fleet Hangar ?

A DST has a fleet hangar of 50.000 m³ which goes up to 62.500 m³ with Industrial level 5. I could put 20 Giant Secure Containers in it, changing the total size from 60.000 + 2500 m³ to 78.000 + 2500 m³, going up to a nice value of 80.000 m³ ?
Selaria Unbertable
Bellator in Capsulam
#14 - 2015-02-05 17:03:44 UTC
Since we're correcting numbers anyway, the Orca also has less cargo hold, if fit correctly. About 69.000m³ with 3 T2 Large Transverse Bulkheads, a DC2 and Reinforced Bulkheads. Of course, not everyone fits this way Roll
Noctaly
Core Industry.
Goonswarm Federation
#15 - 2015-02-05 17:09:41 UTC
Selaria Unbertable wrote:
Since we're correcting numbers anyway, the Orca also has less cargo hold, if fit correctly. About 69.000m³ with 3 T2 Large Transverse Bulkheads, a DC2 and Reinforced Bulkheads. Of course, not everyone fits this way Roll

True, but I wanted to start with unfitted stats. Some people prefers to fit for cargo capacity. I think I'll be on the side of tanked fits !
Vol Arm'OOO
Central Co-Prosperity Union
#16 - 2015-02-06 14:22:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Vol Arm'OOO
Cara Forelli wrote:
Noctaly wrote:
I still have some questions however :


  • As far as I know, it is not possible to enter C2 with Freighters, is it right ?
  • Can I enter in W Space with an Orca, or is it too big ?
  • Can the fleet hangar in the Orca and in the DST be used for hauling PI Commodities, or only ships ?


-No, Freighters cannot enter C2s. They are restricted to C5/C6 because of wormhole mass limits.
-Yes, you can bring an Orca into wormhole space. I can't recall if they fit into a C2. Look up the mass limit on your static connection and check.
-Yes, you can use the fleet hangar for PI, or any other item. The ship maintenence bay is where ships are stored.

I suggest an epithal with three warp core stabilizers and a nanofiber, with as much shield buffer as you can fit. It's unlikely anything will be able to alpha you before you can warp, so you'll be pretty much safe unless you are being actively hunted or run into a bubble. Scouting ahead is always a good idea.

Edit:

Noctaly wrote:
Since my trips will mainly be HighSec -> WH highsec side -> WH highsec side -> POS, would I really need to be cloaky ?

In this case the only time you are vulnerable is on the way back in as you are warping off the hole (and your hold is probably empty). It's almost a non issue. Most people don't even pick fights on high sec wormholes as you can always just jump back through to safety.


well just to clarify something - there was a recent change to wh mechanics that made it so you spawn at a distance from a wh which means that you cant jump right back - you have to motor back to the wh then jump, which may not be possible if they bump you. Have a cloak/mwd fitted - so if some one is waiting for you - you can do the cloak warp trick and get away - then the only trouble you will have is if the wh is bubbled, but if that happens all you are really losing is a t1 hauler, which is no big deal.

Edit -- I should add that probably the most dangerous part of the trip for you is hs - if you fill your hold with lots of wh goo and then fly around hs you invite ganking attempts.

I don't play, I just fourm warrior.