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Crime & Punishment

 
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Defeating CODE/Gankers

First post
Author
Tora Bushido
The Marmite Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#41 - 2015-02-02 14:12:20 UTC
Chocolate Mooses wrote:
much good post until this part. hiring "mercs" against the CODE. alliance = giving your ISK away to someone for literally 0 results. look how hard we trashed the noble mermaids led by the brave tomato burrito (space bushido!) in their little war campaign. is that even still going on?
Still in denial you are being owned I see Blink So before you bla bla, you might want to kill more then 2 ships.Pirate

DELETE THE WEAK, ADAPT OR DIE !

Meta Gaming Level VII, Psycho Warfare Level X, Smack Talk Level VII.

Black Pedro
Mine.
#42 - 2015-02-02 14:22:02 UTC
William Viper wrote:
HighSec miners are not the main victims of CODE or whatever kind of HighSec gankers.

What about new players? Players who recently joined EVE? Doing some missions, gathering some ore in the belts?
How many of those already quit playing EVE because they got shot by "pirates" while moving to Jita in their first industrial?

What EVE Online needs are new players.
Players who stay with us (!) in New Eden.
Players who spend their money for PLEX and populate our universe.

How can we achieve this?
1st proposal: no offensive action against other players in HighSec should be possible.
No shooting at them, no targeting, no jamming, no whatever.

2nd proposal: buff CONCORDE. They should be everywhere in HighSec and destroy every capsuleer who targets an other player.

You think that's too extreme? Think about the decrease in the number of players who quit playing EVE within their first week because they got ganked in HighSec.

Perhaps you should make this proposal in the Features and Ideas subforum where it can be properly addressed.

I was going to pull out the standard response about what kind of game this is, the CCP Falcon oratory and the like, but I think I will just say that if you think this is possible without breaking much of the sandbox that makes Eve so unique in the MMO game space, you are sadly mistaken.

And what is the point of mollycoddling new players to the reality of what type of game this is? At some point they will have to get use to their ship exploding - this is a competitive PvP sandbox after all. Eventually they will do something, lose a ship and then quit. If anything, we should take the opposite approach and not let players leave the starting tutorials until they have lost a dozen ships to other new players in PvP, some of them unexpectedly while they are doing something else. That is much more likely to get players used to loss, and soften the blow when they unexpectedly lose that first ship to another player.


Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#43 - 2015-02-02 14:26:06 UTC
William Viper wrote:
HighSec miners are not the main victims of CODE or whatever kind of HighSec gankers.

What about new players? Players who recently joined EVE? Doing some missions, gathering some ore in the belts?
How many of those already quit playing EVE because they got shot by "pirates" while moving to Jita in their first industrial?

What EVE Online needs are new players.
Players who stay with us (!) in New Eden.
Players who spend their money for PLEX and populate our universe.

How can we achieve this?
1st proposal: no offensive action against other players in HighSec should be possible.
No shooting at them, no targeting, no jamming, no whatever.

2nd proposal: buff CONCORDE. They should be everywhere in HighSec and destroy every capsuleer who targets an other player.

You think that's too extreme? Think about the decrease in the number of players who quit playing EVE within their first week because they got ganked in HighSec.
That is too extreme. While yes, I'm sure there's some players that quit because of being ganked, there are also many players who quit due to boredom. Removing ganking entirely would just shift people from quitting because they got ganked to quitting because they got bored. Ganking needs to stay. There's certainly balance issue that needs to be worked out however as it's too easy to gank a player and too difficult to reactively deal with a gank attempt. More tools should be given to allow people to fight back against a gank attempt rather than automatic mechanic buffs like concord response time decreases. The only change I'd make to concord is one Black Pedro suggested a while back which is varied response times, so concord might arrive in 10 secs, they might arrive in 50.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Drez Arthie
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2015-02-02 17:02:55 UTC
William Viper wrote:
What about new players? Players who recently joined EVE? Doing some missions, gathering some ore in the belts?
How many of those already quit playing EVE because they got shot by "pirates" while moving to Jita in their first industrial?


No, don't change the game, change the new players' expectations. How about tutorial missions where the new player gets ganked by an initially non-hostile NPC in their starter ship, then the agent gives them a new one, for example? If they get ganked while mining or moving cargo, they will at least not have a "WTF!?!?" reaction, and think it's some sort of unsanctioned exploit.
Tora Bushido
The Marmite Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#45 - 2015-02-02 17:40:00 UTC
Operation Shhh.. Code has began. Just imagine Code having no one to cry too, because everyone has them muted by default.Pirate

DELETE THE WEAK, ADAPT OR DIE !

Meta Gaming Level VII, Psycho Warfare Level X, Smack Talk Level VII.

Shnjago
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2015-02-02 17:43:45 UTC
Tora Bushido wrote:
Chocolate Mooses wrote:
much good post until this part. hiring "mercs" against the CODE. alliance = giving your ISK away to someone for literally 0 results. look how hard we trashed the noble mermaids led by the brave tomato burrito (space bushido!) in their little war campaign. is that even still going on?
Still in denial you are being owned I see Blink So before you bla bla, you might want to kill more then 2 ships.Pirate


Actually CODE shows steady increase in performance ever since it was permadecced by Marmites: https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99002775/stats/

November: 789.9bil
December: 1.03t
January: 1.10t
(first two days of february, pretty good start I'd say): 96.02bil

I think there's a clear difference between mercenaries enjoying being on CONCORD kms and them actually protecting their clients (either by denying kills or by eliminating offending entity). So far, it seems there's an obvious bias toward first option, with Marmites less caring about the effect of their action, striving to be in as many CONCORD kms as possible.

I observed this strange obsession with CONCORD KMs in anti-ganking channel, but am very surprised to see respected mercenaries falling for the same fallacy.
Kaelynne Rose
WTB Somalians
#47 - 2015-02-02 17:48:18 UTC
Lol "respected"???

Camping hubs/gates/running when shot at?

AG bears are same level of respect.
That Jen chick is example of successful AG.

Lol @ respect for marmates that have industry alts
This whole thing started cuz Tora was carebearing on his frieghter alt and got his compressed ore ganked
Tora Bushido
The Marmite Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#48 - 2015-02-02 17:52:16 UTC
And remember, you can also hide all post made by Codies. Ops Success. Its so refreshing not having to read all the bull. \\Big smile//

DELETE THE WEAK, ADAPT OR DIE !

Meta Gaming Level VII, Psycho Warfare Level X, Smack Talk Level VII.

Shnjago
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2015-02-02 17:56:37 UTC
Tora Bushido wrote:
And remember, you can also hide all post made by Codies. Ops Success. Its so refreshing not having to read all the bull. \\Big smile//

That's really unbelievable. What happened between loyalanon and Tora for latter to start behaving in this way?
CODE always provided hottest Eve content, and will keep doing that in foreseeable future: there's just too many non-compliant players in Eve, ready to share their feelings on CODE's exquisite combat style. The futility of "permadeccing" CODE can only be compared to futility of kindergarten-style "let's pretend we don't see Bobby" strategy.

Just unbelievable.
Elizabet Forgrave
Spectre Fleet Ltd.
Spectre Fleet Alliance
#50 - 2015-02-02 18:08:37 UTC
Shnjago wrote:
Actually CODE shows steady increase in performance ever since it was permadecced by Marmites: https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99002775/stats/

November: 789.9bil
December: 1.03t
January: 1.10t
(first two days of february, pretty good start I'd say): 96.02bil

I think there's a clear difference between mercenaries enjoying being on CONCORD kms and them actually protecting their clients (either by denying kills or by eliminating offending entity). So far, it seems there's an obvious bias toward first option, with Marmites less caring about the effect of their action, striving to be in as many CONCORD kms as possible.

I observed this strange obsession with CONCORD KMs in anti-ganking channel, but am very surprised to see respected mercenaries falling for the same fallacy.
I'm working on bringing those numbers down through super secret magic tricks! Mwahahahahaha!
Kaelynne Rose
WTB Somalians
#51 - 2015-02-02 18:51:00 UTC
Shnjago wrote:
Tora Bushido wrote:
And remember, you can also hide all post made by Codies. Ops Success. Its so refreshing not having to read all the bull. \\Big smile//

That's really unbelievable. What happened between loyalanon and Tora for latter to start behaving in this way?
CODE always provided hottest Eve content, and will keep doing that in foreseeable future: there's just too many non-compliant players in Eve, ready to share their feelings on CODE's exquisite combat style. The futility of "permadeccing" CODE can only be compared to futility of kindergarten-style "let's pretend we don't see Bobby" strategy.

Just unbelievable.


Tora 4 CSMX! The man that never runs/hides from issues or problems...
Wait... wut?

Lmao dude. Na na nnnaaa na naa i cant hear you! L
Ru joking dude?
Tora Bushido
The Marmite Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#52 - 2015-02-02 20:11:58 UTC
Kaelynne Rose wrote:
Lmao dude. Na na nnnaaa na naa i cant hear you! Ru joking dude?
Nananananaaaa... cant hear ya Twisted

DELETE THE WEAK, ADAPT OR DIE !

Meta Gaming Level VII, Psycho Warfare Level X, Smack Talk Level VII.

MPaladin
Omega Dawn Corp
#53 - 2015-02-02 23:02:32 UTC  |  Edited by: MPaladin
William Viper wrote:
HighSec miners are not the main victims of CODE or whatever kind of HighSec gankers.

What about new players? Players who recently joined EVE? Doing some missions, gathering some ore in the belts?
How many of those already quit playing EVE because they got shot by "pirates" while moving to Jita in their first industrial?

What EVE Online needs are new players.
Players who stay with us (!) in New Eden.
Players who spend their money for PLEX and populate our universe.

How can we achieve this?
1st proposal: no offensive action against other players in HighSec should be possible.
No shooting at them, no targeting, no jamming, no whatever.

2nd proposal: buff CONCORDE. They should be everywhere in HighSec and destroy every capsuleer who targets an other player.

You think that's too extreme? Think about the decrease in the number of players who quit playing EVE within their first week because they got ganked in HighSec.



I hope you have a Fire Retardant flight suit, because I predict the flames are going to be pretty hot.

For one thing CCP won't go for this, as they already have said so. But since most all people who regularly gank have bad Security Status', they can be attacked by anyone while they are in Hi-Sec. Most people look and see a "Flashy Red" and not pay any attention to them, because they aren't the ones getting attacked. But when they do get attacked, then you have some who come here and complain.

But when you come to the forums and complain, think about this, when you seen the "Red Flashies" attacking another player, did you move to help them? If you didn't, why not? But then you expected someone to come to your aid, when you got attacked. That person you save today, may possibly be the person who steps up and saves you in the future.

This game of Internet spaceships, actually requires you to think, to perform critical analysis at any given time when you have that spaceship out of the dock. There are plenty of tools out there to help you plan and prepare, they should be utilized on a daily basis before you undock that ship.
Kthome Mares
Doomheim
#54 - 2015-02-03 04:14:37 UTC
Tora Bushido wrote:
Operation Shhh.. Code has began. Just imagine Code having no one to cry too, because everyone has them muted by default.Pirate


i actually laughed because this is all you can do considering you stay docked when code are in system.

hows the war with break a wish going?
William Viper
Star Systems
#55 - 2015-02-03 06:52:25 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:

Perhaps you should make this proposal in the Features and Ideas subforum where it can be properly addressed.

...


Thank you, Sir, for your advice! I'm new here in the forums (and basically to EVE after taking a break for a few years).

Have a good one! o7
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#56 - 2015-02-03 07:49:13 UTC
Tora Bushido wrote:
Operation Shhh.. Code has began. Just imagine Code having no one to cry too, because everyone has them muted by default.Pirate

What a brilliant new war strategy. You are almost on par with the highsec miners and wannabe rebels now. Good job.

Also calm down miner and make sure you have a valid permit in your bio.
Tora Bushido
The Marmite Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#57 - 2015-02-03 12:20:33 UTC
Seems C&P almost died without the Code tears. Bear

DELETE THE WEAK, ADAPT OR DIE !

Meta Gaming Level VII, Psycho Warfare Level X, Smack Talk Level VII.

Miko Jin
HELVEGEN
#58 - 2015-02-03 13:30:55 UTC
Tora Bushido wrote:
Seems C&P almost died without the Code tears. Bear



Reading through this thread I have to say I do not see any code tears, I do see somebody who IMHO has lost the plot and is trying to do damage limitation in a very naive way.

Ego's are one thing but just replying with no substance makes you look rather silly.


Solonius Rex
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2015-02-03 13:42:08 UTC
William Viper wrote:
HighSec miners are not the main victims of CODE or whatever kind of HighSec gankers.

What about new players? Players who recently joined EVE? Doing some missions, gathering some ore in the belts?
How many of those already quit playing EVE because they got shot by "pirates" while moving to Jita in their first industrial?

What EVE Online needs are new players.
Players who stay with us (!) in New Eden.
Players who spend their money for PLEX and populate our universe.

How can we achieve this?
1st proposal: no offensive action against other players in HighSec should be possible.
No shooting at them, no targeting, no jamming, no whatever.

2nd proposal: buff CONCORDE. They should be everywhere in HighSec and destroy every capsuleer who targets an other player.

You think that's too extreme? Think about the decrease in the number of players who quit playing EVE within their first week because they got ganked in HighSec.


Why stop there? What if a new player accidentally wanders into lowsec? What if he accepts a hisec mission into lowsec? What if he goes afk during missions? These could all lead to a dead ship, and a new player who leaves eve. Therefore, i think the only proposal should be, new players have immortal ships that can never die. Any player that is less than 5 months old, have ships that reach 1 structure, but no less.

And of course, new players are also off limits for everything else that might make them want to leave. If a new player joins a player owned corp, that corp cannot be wardecced for 5 months. If a new player falls for a scam, CCP reimburses that player and bans the scammer.

I mean, who cares if its completely game-breaking. Who cares if it completely changes what Eve is all about. All that matters is new player retention. We want a game that mirrors Star Trek Online. Completely safe. No risk.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#60 - 2015-02-03 17:14:07 UTC
Solonius Rex wrote:
Why stop there? What if a new player accidentally wanders into lowsec? What if he accepts a hisec mission into lowsec? What if he goes afk during missions? These could all lead to a dead ship, and a new player who leaves eve. Therefore, i think the only proposal should be, new players have immortal ships that can never die. Any player that is less than 5 months old, have ships that reach 1 structure, but no less.

And of course, new players are also off limits for everything else that might make them want to leave. If a new player joins a player owned corp, that corp cannot be wardecced for 5 months. If a new player falls for a scam, CCP reimburses that player and bans the scammer.

I mean, who cares if its completely game-breaking. Who cares if it completely changes what Eve is all about. All that matters is new player retention. We want a game that mirrors Star Trek Online. Completely safe. No risk.
While his ideas were pretty extreme, your response is also pretty terrible. Saying "Look at how ludicrous all of these other, more ludicrous ideas are" isn't actually countering the point's he's making.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.