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Rescuing the Abandoned
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Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#41 - 2011-11-03 16:26:06 UTC
Ran'shad wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:

I think the day will come when you regret using families as hostages, Captain.

I hope that day comes before someone makes you regret it.


I am afraid you misunderstand, they are not hostages. My two capsuleer servants realize that in the eyes of God they have been given a gift, and that for the sake of the souls of their family they are wise to honor and obey the one who bestowed the gift upon them. Truthfully, these individuals are closer to trusted employees, as they have realized the true place of their people and are thankful for the blessings that God has given them through the teachings of our priests. Perhaps I shall ask them to speak publically, should they so choose.



No, Ran'shad, you misunderstand.

Do your 'servants' have a choice whether or not to remain in your employ? Not 'do they want to stay' -- do they have a choice? If one of them were to approach you and ask to be released, is there anything in your doctrine to allow for that?

There certainly wasn't in my case. The one time I asked, it cost me two days' worth of meals and I was sent to a re-education camp for 'daring to question God's generosity' (which promptly sent me back to Lady Rebeka's estate because of our 'differences of opinion').

And now I'm here, fighting against the Empire that took my life away from me.

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....
Shaera Taam
Khanid Prime Free Irregulars
#42 - 2011-12-08 20:06:36 UTC
Ran'shad wrote:

The best thing for them is to be returned to the life and society they were raised in, be it at a planetary settlement and factory or aboard station at an assembly facility. To tear them away from the lives they know, confine them and force them to fend for themselves is tantamount to torture. We offer a safe and secure environment where service earns them salvation.


do you realize, sir, that among the reputable repatriation and matriculation programs of which i am familiar, that if a former slave declares that he or she wants to return to their previous life, then those organizations arrange for their transport and return? free of charge, and with a blessing of peace and long life?

they are afforded the most powerful of freedoms, the power of self-determination

even if they decide to give up that power, it is their choice

ST

Thus Spake the Frigate Goddess!
Gistatis Tribunus
Doomheim
#43 - 2011-12-19 08:28:12 UTC
I don't know about you, but if it's between some smelly old janitor and a brand-spanking new autocannon, I'm going to take the autocannon and jettison the janitor. Same with slaves, exotic dancers, tourists, and even Republic diplomats.
Ran'shad
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2011-12-20 17:20:02 UTC
Astrid Stjerna wrote:

No, Ran'shad, you misunderstand.

Do your 'servants' have a choice whether or not to remain in your employ? Not 'do they want to stay' -- do they have a choice? If one of them were to approach you and ask to be released, is there anything in your doctrine to allow for that?

There certainly wasn't in my case. The one time I asked, it cost me two days' worth of meals and I was sent to a re-education camp for 'daring to question God's generosity' (which promptly sent me back to Lady Rebeka's estate because of our 'differences of opinion').

And now I'm here, fighting against the Empire that took my life away from me.


All children, from time to time, require punishment for misbehaviour. I myslef sent my son to bed without his dinner on more than one occasion for various reasons. Does this make me the monster? No. I t makes me a caringparent, one who wishses only that his son learn what is and is not acceptable behaviour in civilized society. As I write this he is now a father of his own children, and a responsible man in his own right, and a capsuleer with his own command in the Imperial Navy. It would seem that he learned the intended lesson.

In that way are the Amarr people trying to help the Minmatar to learn what God has allowed us to understand first. We reinforce positive behaviours and correct the undesirable ones within the Minmatar who He has entrusted to our care. Our job as a race is to help yours mature to the point where you, like us before you, can take your own responsible place in the universe recognizing the goodness that God has bestowed on all of us.

Children are not always happy with their parents. This is a universal truth, however the child who is left untaught and undisciplined will never grow into a responsible adult. It was only many years after I had left home, and had a family of my own that I realised the importance that my own fathers discipline played in shaping my life. To him I am eternally gratefull.

I trust in God that when your own people finally come of age, with our guidance, your ancestors will be gratefull for what the Amarr people are doing today.

High Lord Ran'Shad CEO Imperial Manufacturing and Engineering Regiment Elemental Tide Alliance
Ran'shad
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#45 - 2011-12-20 17:20:59 UTC
Gistatis Tribunus wrote:
I don't know about you, but if it's between some smelly old janitor and a brand-spanking new autocannon, I'm going to take the autocannon and jettison the janitor. Same with slaves, exotic dancers, tourists, and even Republic diplomats.



How many autocannons could those individuals create if only you took the time to teach them?

High Lord Ran'Shad CEO Imperial Manufacturing and Engineering Regiment Elemental Tide Alliance
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#46 - 2011-12-22 00:45:35 UTC
Ran'shad wrote:
[...]
My research, and that of several highly respected galactic sociologists, suggests that introducing them into the larger Minmatar society is actually harmful to these individuals.


Because obviously-slanted "research" that lacks peer-review and appeals to un-specified, nebulous authority = convincing proof Roll

Ran'shad wrote:
How many of the 'graduates' - for lack of a better term - of the matriculation programs suffer serious psychological trauma as a result of the overwhelming burden placed on them to sink or swim in the cut-throat Minmatar society?


As someone, somewhere, once upon a time ago said: "[citation needed]." Minmatar society is far from perfect, but at least we're trying, and as for the reasons for that lack of "perfection?" Well, we have 700 years' worth of "salvation" to thank for that, don't we.

Ranshad wrote:
The best thing for us Amarrians is [for the jet-canned slaves] to be returned to the life and society they were kidnapped into, and forced into being nothing but property in, be it at a planetary settlement and factory or aboard station at an assembly facility. To tear them away from the living death they know, treat their psychological and physical wounds, and teach them to fend for themselves as free citizens is tantamount to torture--for us, because it means we Amarrians will then have to do the jobs we never wanted to do...We offer a safe and secure environment where we pretend service earns them salvation, except, for some damned strange reason--couldn't imagine whatBlink--the goal-posts for that "salvation" keep being conveniently moved.


And, fixed.

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2011-12-22 08:09:14 UTC
Tarryn, save your breath. Ran'shad is beyond help.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Nausea
Sisters of the Blade
#48 - 2011-12-22 13:14:58 UTC
Astrid Stjerna wrote:



(...)

Do your 'servants' have a choice whether or not to remain in your employ? Not 'do they want to stay' -- do they have a choice?


Surely a more interesting question would be whether or not they had a choice to enter his employ in the first place? If they knew that they would be surrendering their freedoms, yet choose to do so willingly, that is a far different creature to it simply being the status quo.

And I sincerly doubt they had that choice.

As for implied threats against families of capuleers? I don't think there is a single recorded incident of this ever going any way other than badly.
Ami-Lee Elongur
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2011-12-22 13:36:38 UTC
Nausea wrote:
Astrid Stjerna wrote:



(...)

Do your 'servants' have a choice whether or not to remain in your employ? Not 'do they want to stay' -- do they have a choice?


Surely a more interesting question would be whether or not they had a choice to enter his employ in the first place? If they knew that they would be surrendering their freedoms, yet choose to do so willingly, that is a far different creature to it simply being the status quo.

And I sincerly doubt they had that choice.

As for implied threats against families of capuleers? I don't think there is a single recorded incident of this ever going any way other than badly.


I serve High Lord Ran'Shad and am proud to do so. I am pleased to be continuing my family's tradition of loyal service to the Holders. I would never do anything to bring shame upon my master, or force him to redeem my sins upon other members of my family. My shame would be theirs, my sins would be theirs. Their punishment would be my own. I serve my master in the hopes that I will grow in my understanding of God and seek my salvation through Him.
Nausea
Sisters of the Blade
#50 - 2011-12-22 14:28:05 UTC
Ami-Lee Elongur wrote:


I would never do anything to bring shame upon my master, or force him to redeem my sins upon other members of my family. My shame would be theirs, my sins would be theirs. Their punishment would be my own.


I openly admit I lack much knowledge of the orthodox Amarrian religion, but is it common for sins to be so freely transferable? That you can be redeemed for your mistakes by having someone else take the beating that you can't take yourself?

Surely if you are seeking personal salvation, then whatever punishments may come from it should be endured...personally?
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