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Social Corps

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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#161 - 2015-02-01 16:41:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Miomeifeng Alduin wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Ganking and wars are core features of the game. Violence and competition for resources is highlighted in all of the game's literature. In fact, people entering the game for the first time might get disenchanted that the violence they were promised isn't actually being delivered. Bumping isn't a core feature, isn't something that's advertised as one, and I doubt anyone would leave if it was removed. In the same way, NPC corporations aren't a core feature, and aren't advertised. In fact, I'd wager that if NPC corporations were removed, all new players who join the game would actually be more accepting of EVE's violence, because the safety blanket they'd otherwise develop an entitlement to at such early ages would no longer be present.

Of course, we're also talking about a gamer generation that posts massive whine threads about "KOS" in the forums of survival games that offer both pvp and pve servers, so maybe I'm wrong here.


So what would you suggest that new players start in? a npc corp which is constantly under war and the starting system (ok, the surrounding systems) camped by tengu's and all? That'd be fun and would definately not drive people away ...

Pretty simple solution, actually. First 3-4 weeks, no corp at all, just rookie channel. After that time expires, you get forcefully dumped into a game-created corporation. Random name, no CEO, kind of like the default militia corporation. These corporations can declare war on each other, and do other stuff, like elect temporary leaders, via the vote system. Of course a new player can jump into one right away. Maybe even get a bonus for it. I'd implement a system of rewards and everything. I'm also trying to come up with a similar idea for more experienced players between corporations, but this is just kind of a rough draft that I've had for many years but never gave much thought to because it will never happen anyway.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Miomeifeng Alduin
Lithonauts Inc.
#162 - 2015-02-01 17:16:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Miomeifeng Alduin
so basically what you are saying is: this is a sandbox, but only for the things i like. Your suggestion is bad imo because of one word: Force. If you force people into certain things, they'll just leave. If you give them the choice, more will stay.

A social corp is just another choice which might fit some people better. What's wrong with that since its not forcing you to join one?
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#163 - 2015-02-01 17:24:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Except EVE is already forcing players to do a lot of things they don't really care for. I don't see how telling players that they can't be in a rookie corporation all of their lives is any different from telling players that they'll have to leave high-sec in order to mine Crokite, or get into a fleet with others in order to run incursions, or grind their security status back in order to go back to high-sec after getting into some fights in low. At least with my idea, one more of them would be remotely noble.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Glathull
Warlock Assassins
#164 - 2015-02-01 17:46:36 UTC
Miomeifeng Alduin wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Ganking and wars are core features of the game. Violence and competition for resources is highlighted in all of the game's literature. In fact, people entering the game for the first time might get disenchanted that the violence they were promised isn't actually being delivered. Bumping isn't a core feature, isn't something that's advertised as one, and I doubt anyone would leave if it was removed. In the same way, NPC corporations aren't a core feature, and aren't advertised. In fact, I'd wager that if NPC corporations were removed, all new players who join the game would actually be more accepting of EVE's violence, because the safety blanket they'd otherwise develop an entitlement to at such early ages would no longer be present.

Of course, we're also talking about a gamer generation that posts massive whine threads about "KOS" in the forums of survival games that offer both pvp and pve servers, so maybe I'm wrong here.


So what would you suggest that new players start in? a npc corp which is constantly under war and the starting system (ok, the surrounding systems) camped by tengu's and all? That'd be fun and would definately not drive people away ...


That would be awesome. I would roll a second account just for the challenge.

I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
Miomeifeng Alduin
Lithonauts Inc.
#165 - 2015-02-01 17:53:07 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Except EVE is already forcing players to do a lot of things they don't really care for. I don't see how telling players that they can't be in a rookie corporation all of their lives is any different from telling players that they'll have to leave high-sec in order to mine Crokite, or get into a fleet with others in order to run incursions, or grind their security status back in order to go back to high-sec after getting into some fights in low. At least with my idea, one more of them would be remotely noble.



Except nothing is forcing you to do that. You have the choice to go mine Crokite. You have the choice of doing incursions. You have the choice to grind sec status and go back to HS. The alternative might not be very appealing in some cases, but there is still a choice and not forcing the player.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#166 - 2015-02-01 17:59:53 UTC
You'd have the choice to not be in the type of corporation I proposed as well. All you'd have to do is start your own. In fact, I'd even be willing to propose removing the corporation creation fee, so that there's no barrier at all.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#167 - 2015-02-01 20:21:50 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Except EVE is already forcing players to do a lot of things they don't really care for. I don't see how telling players that they can't be in a rookie corporation all of their lives is any different from telling players that they'll have to leave high-sec in order to mine Crokite, or get into a fleet with others in order to run incursions, or grind their security status back in order to go back to high-sec after getting into some fights in low. At least with my idea, one more of them would be remotely noble.
It's completely different. Mining Crokite is choice, you can mine other things, you can buy what you need, you don't even need to mine. If you *choose* to mine Crokite, then you accept that the choice requires you to go to certain space. Same with incursions, if you choose to do incursions, you accept that it requires a fleet. Sec status is different as you can choose not to lose it, plus you don't have to grind it back, you can buy tags too.

What you want isn't choice. After 3-4 weeks you get dumped in a corp where you can be wardecced freely by veteran players - usually ones who specialise in killing players exactly like you. Then the only choices are to be someone's fodder or to keep corp hopping to avoid wardecs, but undoubtedly you're against wardec avoidance too.

Believe it or not, the game isn't about bringing in new players and turning them into unwilling content for highsec wardeccers. People can play however they want. So you don't like how some people play, well boo frikkin hoo, that's the game, deal with it.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#168 - 2015-02-01 20:22:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Indahmawar Fazmarai
Miomeifeng Alduin wrote:
so basically what you are saying is: this is a sandbox, but only for the things i like. Your suggestion is bad imo because of one word: Force. If you force people into certain things, they'll just leave. If you give them the choice, more will stay.

A social corp is just another choice which might fit some people better. What's wrong with that since its not forcing you to join one?


That already happens when players master PvE and find themselves in a dead end as the game is forcing them to shipsploding if they want to do anything else.

Yet of course, they didn't learn shipsploding for one or two years and don't feel like starting from scratch. They may not even like shipsploding for ~reasons~. They'd rather keep doing PvE and PvPing other players through other means than shipsploding... but CCP can't be arsed to take PvE as a serious option.

CCP gives garbage mechanics, get garbage gameplay. And less players, of course.
Dave stark
#169 - 2015-02-01 20:39:53 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
but CCP can't be arsed to take PvE as a serious option.


after looking at the behaviour of the sleeper scouts, i wholeheartedly disagree with your statement there.

it may have taken a decade, but still...
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#170 - 2015-02-01 20:46:54 UTC
Glathull wrote:
Miomeifeng Alduin wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Ganking and wars are core features of the game. Violence and competition for resources is highlighted in all of the game's literature. In fact, people entering the game for the first time might get disenchanted that the violence they were promised isn't actually being delivered. Bumping isn't a core feature, isn't something that's advertised as one, and I doubt anyone would leave if it was removed. In the same way, NPC corporations aren't a core feature, and aren't advertised. In fact, I'd wager that if NPC corporations were removed, all new players who join the game would actually be more accepting of EVE's violence, because the safety blanket they'd otherwise develop an entitlement to at such early ages would no longer be present.

Of course, we're also talking about a gamer generation that posts massive whine threads about "KOS" in the forums of survival games that offer both pvp and pve servers, so maybe I'm wrong here.


So what would you suggest that new players start in? a npc corp which is constantly under war and the starting system (ok, the surrounding systems) camped by tengu's and all? That'd be fun and would definately not drive people away ...


That would be awesome. I would roll a second account just for the challenge.


I would much prefer the option to start in NPC 0.0 as a Guristas, Angel, Serpentis, etc character. Base +5.0 standng to your "home" faction, -10 standing to the opposing empire faction and -5.0 to all the others.

It would require NPC 0.0 to get some love - skillbooks, BPCs, being made available, more stations, especially cloning stations, availabe in Venal and Fountain and so on. But it would be a fantastic option to have.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#171 - 2015-02-01 21:22:22 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
I would much prefer the option to start in NPC 0.0 as a Guristas, Angel, Serpentis, etc character. Base +5.0 standng to your "home" faction, -10 standing to the opposing empire faction and -5.0 to all the others.

It would require NPC 0.0 to get some love - skillbooks, BPCs, being made available, more stations, especially cloning stations, availabe in Venal and Fountain and so on. But it would be a fantastic option to have.
You can guarantee that every entrance and exit to the "newbie" NPC areas would be camped even if the areas themselves were restricted like normal newbie zones, making them a pointless choice unless you were rolling an alt to do that factions missions for LP. So it would really just be a way for vets to make pirate LP alts without having to do the earlier level missions.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
#172 - 2015-02-02 00:32:51 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


Yet for some reason, we can't interact to NPC to do out dirty job, we get no meaningful reward for assisting them, and there are zero ways in which a player can force another player to PvE or suffer the consequences of his poor decission making.


This is a lie. knowing where an incursion is happening and getting someone to chase you there (getting him scramed on a gate by npcs while you fly away) is forcing someone to "pve". He better learn how to pve fast if he don't wanna die.

Knowing the right ships to not kill in the 1st 4 rooms of a Maze so that pvp'rs who scan you down get killed in them while you do the 5th room and scoop the loot is the same thing

Using the key to avoid the 1st 2 rooms of Blood Raider Naval Shipyard (meaning that if they want to kill you they either have to bring a key or clear the 1st too rooms....in pvp fit ships) is also it.

And "no meaningful reward"? My positive standings (on an alt) to ALL of the npc pirate factions (unlocking LP stores that contain pirate implants begs to differ.

The 'conflict' isn't "PVPrs vs PVErs" Its GOOD players (pve/pvp whatever.) vas bad.

Quote:

PvE don't have tools to generate emergent content and influence other players. They have no tools to PvP their way, and the reason is CCP. CCP are either too bigoted about PvP or downright incompetent as to develop PvE and put it to the same standard as PvP.


Ah, so we're all just imagining how Faction warfare teeters back and forth as PVErs manipulate the LP store rewards. I guess we all imagined the gerrymandering people have done in controlling the pirate (especially mordus but also Angel) LP stores. Have you seen the price of machariels lately?

Quote:

Can you figure if duels were the only PvP option whereas not having a NPC law firm behind your back meant your ships could be embargoed without notice? Would you think that it would be a "balanced" "sandbox"?


Yep, a PVE sandbox. Those exist too. But that's not what EVE is (and hopefully never will be, and it wasn't when you chose to download it. Why did you choose to D/L a game that fundamentally doesn't do what you want it to? Or do you just like to be frustrated?

Related to the above, if this is what you want why worry about EVE when Elite does this kind of thing better already?


AW S**T NAGA, 5-STAR POAST RIGHT THERE.
So i was flying with some guys who hate on ratters. And miners. Or anything not pew.
We were hunting ratters. Some of these guys had been in the game for 5 years.
Scout reported lots of wrecks on d-scan. I asked if they were belt or deadspace rats.
"Uh, what's the diff?"
"Deadspace ones have names like the mods they drop, tells you someone's doing an anomaly or a combat site."
Sounds of leetists grunting as the insight slides in.
You want to hunt, you have to know your prey and their prey. That will give you a few vital seconds that could mean the difference between bling faction BS kill or another 22 jumps of empty systems.
I've done most everything in space, people who hate on playstyles are simpletons who rob themselves of fun.


Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Galaximo
Doomheim
#173 - 2015-02-02 04:27:10 UTC
It sounds like people are worried that these social groups will decrease the number of PVP targets in the game. The fact is that the players who will be in these social groups are not interested in PVP. The players who will join social groups will be the ones who are currently in NPC corps or will have already left the game because they kept getting decced. The people in social groups have no interest in PVP (NPSI's excluded for sake of discussion), so the number of PVP targets will not have changed. It just gives people in NPC corps a group to call their own. In fact there will be slightly more gankable targets if it keep some players from leaving the game out of frustration. And maybe these players will eventually grow into a PVP gamestyle.

If you say that all players should be PVPers, then you would be saying that NPC corps should be deccable. I would imagine a lot of players would leave the game if that happened. It would also make Freighter movement in high-sec pretty damn hard. That would be a pretty radical change and I don't think CCP would go that far.

The fact of the matter is there is PVP and PVE in this game. Why not allow the PVErs to have fun with friends as opposed to soloing.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#174 - 2015-02-02 04:34:45 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
What you want isn't choice. After 3-4 weeks you get dumped in a corp where you can be wardecced freely by veteran players - usually ones who specialise in killing players exactly like you. Then the only choices are to be someone's fodder or to keep corp hopping to avoid wardecs, but undoubtedly you're against wardec avoidance too.

Believe it or not, the game isn't about bringing in new players and turning them into unwilling content for highsec wardeccers. People can play however they want. So you don't like how some people play, well boo frikkin hoo, that's the game, deal with it.

I can tell that you didn't actually read my idea, because this wouldn't be possible.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Jayne Fillon
#175 - 2015-02-02 06:02:10 UTC
There are so many misunderstandings in this thread I don't even know where I should start.

If you're arguing about this topic and you haven't read the most recent minutes, just stop.

Can't shoot blues if you don't have any. Long Live NPSI.
flakeys
Doomheim
#176 - 2015-02-02 11:59:52 UTC  |  Edited by: flakeys
Kaelynne Rose wrote:
flakeys wrote:
Kaelynne Rose wrote:
I dont see no thread on Social Corps that are coming soon. Gonnna be like an offical "friends list" where errybody can chat and share catpics and talk about ratting and mining and the weather, but not be in real corp so there is no fear of theft/grief.

Basically like a chat channel but with social media-esqe features.

Youra thoughts on this?

Mine are LMAO at this themepark careabear garbage. Brb lemme tweet that to my fellow Social Corpie Buddies.

Anyone wanna join my socual corp? Gonna be called...EVE IS NOT HARSH, IS IS FOR PANSYS



Ít's a ******* chat channel . The fact you found the need to make a boohoorage thread about this speaks volumes about what a tough boy you are .



Boii you about to get wardecced. Then what u gonna do tomorrow? Drop to npc corp and use chatchannel?

Serioualy tho u bout 2 get decced sp appoligize



A 130m in kills of wich allmost all are pods and not even one page filled in 5 years.Man i sure am scared now , even my freighter alt has a more impressive killboard .

I'm more scared of gevlon killing my brain with graphs then empire wardecs ''getting to me''.The only thing in empire that would bother me if i even would base out of it would be kane .

It's not because someone agrees with ''benefits'' people in empire get that they themselves also are empire players.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Shailagh
6Six6Six6Six
#177 - 2015-02-02 14:55:03 UTC
flakeys wrote:
Kaelynne Rose wrote:
flakeys wrote:
Kaelynne Rose wrote:
I dont see no thread on Social Corps that are coming soon. Gonnna be like an offical "friends list" where errybody can chat and share catpics and talk about ratting and mining and the weather, but not be in real corp so there is no fear of theft/grief.

Basically like a chat channel but with social media-esqe features.

Youra thoughts on this?

Mine are LMAO at this themepark careabear garbage. Brb lemme tweet that to my fellow Social Corpie Buddies.

Anyone wanna join my socual corp? Gonna be called...EVE IS NOT HARSH, IS IS FOR PANSYS



Ít's a ******* chat channel . The fact you found the need to make a boohoorage thread about this speaks volumes about what a tough boy you are .



Boii you about to get wardecced. Then what u gonna do tomorrow? Drop to npc corp and use chatchannel?

Serioualy tho u bout 2 get decced sp appoligize



A 130m in kills of wich allmost all are pods and not even one page filled in 5 years.Man i sure am scared now , even my freighter alt has a more impressive killboard .

I'm more scared of gevlon killing my brain with graphs then empire wardecs ''getting to me''.The only thing in empire that would bother me if i even would base out of it would be kane .

It's not because someone agrees with ''benefits'' people in empire get that they themselves also are empire players.



Boooi that dont look like no apology ive ever seen. Grief incoming brah
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#178 - 2015-02-02 15:07:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Chopper Rollins wrote:


AW S**T NAGA, 5-STAR POAST RIGHT THERE.
So i was flying with some guys who hate on ratters. And miners. Or anything not pew.
We were hunting ratters. Some of these guys had been in the game for 5 years.
Scout reported lots of wrecks on d-scan. I asked if they were belt or deadspace rats.
"Uh, what's the diff?"
"Deadspace ones have names like the mods they drop, tells you someone's doing an anomaly or a combat site."
Sounds of leetists grunting as the insight slides in.
You want to hunt, you have to know your prey and their prey. That will give you a few vital seconds that could mean the difference between bling faction BS kill or another 22 jumps of empty systems.
I've done most everything in space, people who hate on playstyles are simpletons who rob themselves of fun.




Reminds me of the time a few years ago when I was scouting for a roaming gang and the FC says "check the havens and Sanctums, those are the best". So i tell him "nowadays it's forsaken hubs, they have no frigates making them preferred by capital pilots". This was after CCPs "EHP per isk" buff to anomalies. I knew this as 'ratting' was my main thing in game, and still is.

He argued me down, even going so far as assigning another dude to scout because I "didn't know wtf I was talking about". So I kept on scouting in my ceptor while the "official" scout did the same (he warped to sanctums and havens in each system and catching nothing). The whole time I'm thinking "silly PVP-man, don't you know it takes a ratter to catch a ratter?" lol.

Imagine that FCs shagrin when I X'd up in fleet chat because I just tackled a CARRIER in a forsaken hub, not once but TWICE in the same night. We killed one, and one got away when his buddies came to peel us off his backside.

That FC never admitted he was wrong per se, but somehow he kept asking me to scout and kept reminding me to "be sure to check the Forsaken Hubs 1st..... Twisted

Never admits fault and pretends like something was their own idea...if it weren't for the man voice coming out of my speakers I would have sworn that FC was my ex-wife...
flakeys
Doomheim
#179 - 2015-02-02 18:14:56 UTC
Shailagh wrote:
flakeys wrote:
Kaelynne Rose wrote:
flakeys wrote:
Kaelynne Rose wrote:
I dont see no thread on Social Corps that are coming soon. Gonnna be like an offical "friends list" where errybody can chat and share catpics and talk about ratting and mining and the weather, but not be in real corp so there is no fear of theft/grief.

Basically like a chat channel but with social media-esqe features.

Youra thoughts on this?

Mine are LMAO at this themepark careabear garbage. Brb lemme tweet that to my fellow Social Corpie Buddies.

Anyone wanna join my socual corp? Gonna be called...EVE IS NOT HARSH, IS IS FOR PANSYS



Ít's a ******* chat channel . The fact you found the need to make a boohoorage thread about this speaks volumes about what a tough boy you are .



Boii you about to get wardecced. Then what u gonna do tomorrow? Drop to npc corp and use chatchannel?

Serioualy tho u bout 2 get decced sp appoligize



A 130m in kills of wich allmost all are pods and not even one page filled in 5 years.Man i sure am scared now , even my freighter alt has a more impressive killboard .

I'm more scared of gevlon killing my brain with graphs then empire wardecs ''getting to me''.The only thing in empire that would bother me if i even would base out of it would be kane .

It's not because someone agrees with ''benefits'' people in empire get that they themselves also are empire players.



Boooi that dont look like no apology ive ever seen. Grief incoming brah


Reading posts like yours on this forum is enough griefing for me mate . No ingame ganking or wardecs can live up to the torture one has to go through to read GD .

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#180 - 2015-02-02 19:12:58 UTC
Some people seem to think that if social groups and "corp lite" enter the game, many players will join them and then those players cannot be war decced. So lets see what happens if we block those new things, and make other changes:

No corp lite, no social groups. Result: Players stay in NPC corps and you cannot war dec them and legally shoot their ships.

Force them out of NPC corps and into random deccable corps. result: Players will go to one man corps they make, swapping as needed to avoid wars. You cannot war dec them and legally shot their ships.

Force them to stay in any corp that gets decced, or have the war follow them to any new corp they make. Result: They do not log in for the duration, or f they do, they never un-dock. You never get to legally shoot their ships.

The game removes assets if they do not fight the war. Result: They leave the game. You do not get to legally shoot their ships.

Having a large group of players in the game that you cannot legally shoot, and having a large group of players NOT in the game that you cannot legally shoot has the same result: A large group of players you cannot legally shoot.

Except if they play eve, CCP devs gets more money, which means we all get more stuff. Do you really think that if CCP lost a huge chuck of money, fired most of the devs, that the sovereignty mechanic would ever get fixed?

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