Player Features and Ideas Discussion

For the most part, carebears in null (or low) sec areas.

Carebears in wormholes (like this character)... they don't care.

Did you ever stop to wonder on that... why don't carebears (or anyone) in wormholes care about afk cloakers in their system? Why are wormholes completely unaffected by this phenomena, yet the empire areas are all freaked out?

Answer this question, then you'll be on the right path to solve the "problem".

As an aside... the risk adverse shouldn't be in the most risk-prone spaces trying to change them to risk-adverse spaces.

But one of the real reasons afk cloaking doesn't and can't work in wormholes is simply due to the absense of local. If you're afk in my wormhole and cloaked up, you're not a threat and there's no benefit of local offering psychological warfare by advertising your presence. Although this is also supplimented by attitude... if you are known to be in the hole then activities shift into actively trying to hunt you down, bait you out or convince you to leave as opposed to hiding in the pos.

Regardless... the psychological aspect of afk-cloaking is what makes it effective, and why it fails in wormholes. Address the psychological issue without breaking wormhole mechanics and you'll be on the right path.

I'll say yes, with a caveat. Those types of people that are so risk adverse shouldn't have the system altered to cater to their fears. If you choose to live in null space, you need to accept that it should be a dangerous place to live. Unknown people in your system likey intend to kill you. Include a caveat as well that should the system be changed at all, it can't be at the expense of nerfing other areas of the game that are currently working fine and would be broken by such changes.

You MUST account for all ripple effects, and you MUST take into consideration the effects on and opinions of those that would be adversely affected by the ripples.

Simple. The psychological warfare of afk cloaking would cease to exist. There would be no benefits to entering a system and cloaking up all day at a safe point. You wouldn't be shutting down a system because people can see you and are afraid to undock. As such, you'd have less people staying in systems for days on end to soften the targets up... instead hunting PvE targets, for example, would become more of a "now" endeavour than a planned days or weeks in advance thing. One thing this means is that by the locals keeping eyes on the gates around the time they wish to run ops, mine, etc. they'll have a better idea whether or not someone has entered the system they're in that they think shouldn't be there. The more alert will probably see someone flash briefly in local as they transition from gate-cloak to ship-cloak as well. They'll be able to react accordingly, but it'll take teamwork. There will still be greater risk in trying to do it alone.

Cloaked ships will find that while cloaked they have to actively go around and gather intel. They can do it purely covertly, flying from point to point and actually looking at things, or remotely by flying off to the edges and dropping combats in a quiet spot, hoping to probe people down before their probes are seen. If they decide to stay in the system and go afk for a couple days they'll find they're having no effect on the residents... they'll need to show themselves and actively be noticed. Of course, this also sets them up to become the hunted... while cloaked they won't see if more locals log on and set up a trap of their own.

A few key elements will be noticed. Intel becomes, while cloaked at least, an active endevour instead of passive. Null and low sec spaces would maintain their intended level of dangerous living. Other areas of Eve, wormholes for example, wouldn't have necessary mechanics broken. And, probably one of the more critical, there wouldn't be any more threads whining about "afk cloakers" that no longer exist.

Much of these mechanics are already in play in wormholes. With non-cloaked vessels still being in local, you'd have an interesting hybrid of those mechanics where the residents can still see each other and chat, sharing intel that way, but the cloaked vessels become truly cloaked, willingly cut off in exchange for their anonymity.

Carebears in null?

Same as now. They either adapt (harden up), complain or go back to space where they feel safe. However they wouldn't be complaining about afk cloakers... they'd be more likely to undock (not seeing boogeymen in local) and those that learn to be more observant (no more afk bot running) and alter their builds a bit if necessary to account for the risk of combat (or bring friends PvP fit) will still do well, while those that fail to adapt will likely get blown up.

The problem with the current system ultimately isn't that they see the cloaked person in local. The problem ultimately is that they're afraid to act when they do. Ideally, they need to learn to assume someone is out there and go about their business while staying alert and playing as though they're in more dangerous space and not a playground. Far too many, seeing the scary man in local, choose the easiest "solution", dock and cry. They need to adapt and fly.

Yes. And what are your estimations on how many will harden up, and how many will just go back to hisec?

Comparable to what they are now. There may be an initial increase on those leaving null, but this would be offset by those that would adventure into null to try out the new mechanics likely. Of those that leave, some would return once they realize they don't have to be afraid of shadows anymore.

Who can say? Many people won't venture into wormhole space for various reasons... some prefer the simple logistics of empire and don't wish to have to scan out their paths. Some don't have the experience to fit for Sleepers. Some fear the more active PvP that goes on in there. Some hate the idea of living in and maintaining a pos. There's a myriad of reasons I'm sure that people don't venture into wormholes.

If they did, they'd realize that stupid ideas like these probes are actually bad, that the added danger isn't detrimental to your daily life, that you can live quite well without Super Caps and Mega-alliances, that you can carve your own little niche out of space and it's yours for as long as you can defend it, etc.

Some probably would. But wormholes come with other mechanics that they may not be so fond of. Logistics being one, sleeper AI being another (for those that really have problems adapting). Add in the amount of profit available on a daily basis in wormholes can be very dependant on the number of people in the wormhole and active.

I'm sure that many would leave null sec, but I'm not so sure that this is a bad or undesirable outcome. Null sec needs a shake-up imho. The sheer number of "carebears" in null just serves to highlight how easy/ safe it is to operate in what is (supposedly) the most lawless and dangerous space in EvE.

Again, would very much like to see a complete and balanced re-work of cloaks/ local/ d-scan/ probes and maybe even Sov. mechanics rather than just one of those. D-scan in particular always felt very under-developed to me, I think that so much more could be done to make it a more important, interesting and skill (player) intensive mechanic than it is.

Except when you're trying to make nullsec imitate wormhole space for all intents and purposes except for the logistical aspects.