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I joined EVE for Incarna - a random bucket of ideas

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Ivy Sunkiller
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#41 - 2011-12-20 14:57:01 UTC
Lexmana wrote:
LEAVE EVE ALONE!!!!

You obviously made a mistake if you joined because of incarna before it was even released. But now you know that incarna failed so maybe you should now ... unjoin?


Why should I leave the game I like to play? I'd rather sit here and wait for the rest of WiS to unroll, while sharing my opinions, just as you are inclined to share yours. Is it really that terrifying that there is someone in the sandbox who likes to do something else than you?

Lexmana wrote:
And you should really listen more to Lady Harlot. She speaks the truth and there was no straw man.


My OP stands as a testimony to what my point is, if you want to be constructive, please relate to that. And Harlot just committed yet another straw man, even more bold, just a post above yours now.
Lexmana
#42 - 2011-12-20 15:10:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Lexmana
Ivy Sunkiller wrote:
Why should I leave the game I like to play?

Fair enough. Stay to play the game you joined instead of trying to change it into the game you wished you joined. You can always log into Facebook when you get bored with EVE to play games that are "doing something right".

Ivy Sunkiller wrote:


Please read again, I'm talking about markets. From the data I've, in years 2009 - 2013 the markets are supposed to grow:

- Games, in general: 7%
- Online Games (mostly MMOs): 11%
- Social Games (farmville, duh): 40%

Obviously, the latter are doing something right.
Aiyshimin
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#43 - 2011-12-20 15:17:29 UTC
Ivy Sunkiller wrote:
If you sit in high sec doing missions and minding your own business, the game will not put you across another's player paths (or when it once in a blue moon does, it's a random ninja looter / salvager / suicide ganker - in which case you could only wish he wasn't there). This isn't just an issue with EVE, most MMORPGs fail to put people in situations where they want to join up, rather they put you in situations where you have to compete with others and want to murder them - in that EVE is actually superior as you can murder them.


Frankly I think this is where you got it wrong. If a person chooses to mind her own business in hisec, there is nothing any game can or should do to change it. Reminds me of a certain mr. Baggins:

Quote:
"We are plain quiet folk and have no use for adventures. Nasty disturbing uncomfortable things! Make you late for dinner! I can't think what anybody sees in them," said our Mr. Baggins, and stuck one thumb behind his braces, and blew out another even bigger smoke-ring."


He had to team up with a bossy old wizard and a bunch of annoying dwarves to get an adventure.

Azahni Vah'nos
Vah'nos Family
#44 - 2011-12-20 15:23:01 UTC
Ivy Sunkiller wrote:
Flat subscription fee business model is dated and flawed, developers know that, hence PLEX, hence microtransactions, hence Diablo 3 being a testing ground for real money auction house before Titan. Even Bioware charges you for extra outfits for companions in Mass Effect.

The marketing hype is doing it's job on some it would seem.

About it being dated and flawed it's the same old argument, what other entertainment can you get for $15 per month where you could also literally use it non-stop during that time. It all comes down to is the product worth the money, if it is people will pay for it just the same way they pay for movies and a myriad of other things that fall into the category of entertainment.



It's interesting that you should mention Diablo 3 because I can see that game receiving some unwanted attention from different governments at some stage over the real money auction house.

I can see the F2P MMO model eventually getting turned on it's ear from not only player discontent but from governments becoming involved and putting in restrictive legislation due to the fact that children/teens play those games. If you follow the news there are already rumblings along those lines with children helping themselves to their parents CC to buy those in-game items they just had to have. You can't tell me that eventually some politician or government department isn't going to see these occurances and start asking questions.

From what I've seen I believe the F2P model has about another 2 years left in it before both developers and players move away from it.

Nex (Cash Shop) / Aurum - removing sand from the sandbox since Incarna. Currently the only use for aurum is to buy virtual items in the in-game store, but Cockerill expects to expand its uses in the future.

Ivy Sunkiller
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#45 - 2011-12-20 15:35:40 UTC
Lexmana wrote:
Fair enough. Stay to play the game you joined and try to not change it to the game you wished you joined. You can always log into Facebook when you get bored with EVE and play games that are "doing something right".

Actually, EVE is my "if bored" activity as it is now - jump in, talk to folks, do a mission, set up training, log out. It's surprisingly casual friendly :). I'd have to have a facebook account in the first place to do what you say, but this is actually interesting - do you not think that social games are doing something right? Or, to be more in context of EVE, do you think that a more social oriented content of WiS would not benefit EVE or maybe hurt it? And if so, why?

Aiyshimin wrote:
Frankly I think this is where you got it wrong. If a person chooses to mind her own business in hisec, there is nothing any game can or should do to change it. Reminds me of a certain mr. Baggins:

Quote:
"We are plain quiet folk and have no use for adventures. Nasty disturbing uncomfortable things! Make you late for dinner! I can't think what anybody sees in them," said our Mr. Baggins, and stuck one thumb behind his braces, and blew out another even bigger smoke-ring."


He had to team up with a bossy old wizard and a bunch of annoying dwarves to get an adventure.

Oh but this is precisely what I'm talking about. I don't want to mess up with missions or change the spaceship game, but Baggins had to meet up with said wizard and dwarves first :).
Ivy Sunkiller
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#46 - 2011-12-20 15:37:59 UTC
Sorry for double posting, but single post showed too many characters.

Azahni Vah'nos wrote:
About it being dated and flawed it's the same old argument, what other entertainment can you get for $15 per month where you could also literally use it non-stop during that time. It all comes down to is the product worth the money, if it is people will pay for it just the same way they pay for movies and a myriad of other things that fall into the category of entertainment.

The question is, are people going to will to pay for it, when there is adequate entertainment, also available literally non-stop, and for free*?

Azahni Vah'nos wrote:
From what I've seen I believe the F2P model has about another 2 years left in it before both developers and players move away from it.

It will be easier to make absolute claims about non-subscription model after GW2 gets released. For now, there is a word of SOE's (yes, I know...) John Smedley:

Quote:
... It's fair to say that subscriptions are likely going to be a strong component of revenue for the foreseeable future, although I don't believe they will be remotely as dominant over time. There's another large juggernaut coming out soon in Star Wars: The Old Republic from EA/Bioware.

In my opinion this is going to be the last large scale MMO to use the traditional subscription business model

EVE is likely to still hold on subs, since for one it has PLEX and for second it's rather unique.
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#47 - 2011-12-20 15:39:19 UTC
Ivy Sunkiller wrote:
do you not think that social games are doing something right? Or, to be more in context of EVE, do you think that a more social oriented content of WiS would not benefit EVE or maybe hurt it? And if so, why?
What part of

OH GOD OH GOD EVERYONE IS UNSUBBING

OH **** DO A SPACESHIP EXPANSION

SWEET JESUS FIRE EVERY FIFTH PERSON

ALL WOD EMPLOYEES ABANDON SHIP

escaped your attention?

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Ivy Sunkiller
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2011-12-20 15:46:43 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
What part of

OH GOD OH GOD EVERYONE IS UNSUBBING

OH **** DO A SPACESHIP EXPANSION

SWEET JESUS FIRE EVERY FIFTH PERSON

ALL WOD EMPLOYEES ABANDON SHIP

escaped your attention?


What part of me saying that I'm not oblivious to the drama, that I think it's good they have postponed WiS and that WiS should not be, ever, prioritized over FiS escaped your attention? And what does that even have to do with the questions I've asked that you quote?
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#49 - 2011-12-20 15:54:25 UTC
Ivy Sunkiller wrote:
What part of me saying that I'm not oblivious to the drama, that I think it's good they have postponed WiS and that WiS should not be, ever, prioritized over FiS escaped your attention? And what does that even have to do with the questions I've asked that you quote?
We know how trying to develop 'social content' will go for EVE. It'll be the biggest disaster in the history of the game, and it'll happen six months ago.

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2011-12-20 15:58:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Takeshi Yamato
Ivy Sunkiller wrote:
Quick three points about WiS:

  1. It can't be prioritized over the FiS game that makes EVE what it is.
  2. It can't be just a gimmick/social hub but actually needs to serve a purpose.
  3. It needs to be completely optional for those players who never want to leave their capsules and couldn't care less about captain quarters, not to mention stations.


I'm going to keep this short:

Walking in stations adds nothing to the game that I pay a subscription for. The best part about it is the fact that it can be turned off so I don't have to endure the increased loading times. I don't see why I should pay for further development of WiS.

In order to make it more than a gimmick that serves no purpose, CCP would have to allocate a lot of resources. EVE players would still hate it because as I said, we pay our subscription for the spaceships part. Consider how long captain's quarters took. So, yes, this is never going to happen.
kmetz3
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2011-12-20 16:10:33 UTC
"... and carebearing in high sec doing missions with friends while talking about random stuff, but there is only so much time you can spend doing that."




"Remember the trailer with the guy flying a rifter and encountering a lonesome miner being ganked? Situation like that, or even remotely similar, has happened zero times to me in almost a year I've been playing EVE. "







Lol.

http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/3420/comic23f.jpg

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/8210/comicnew2f.jpg
Ivy Sunkiller
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#52 - 2011-12-20 16:10:51 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
We know how trying to develop 'social content' will go for EVE. It'll be the biggest disaster in the history of the game, and it'll happen six months ago.

Correct me if I'm wrong, are you saying that a single player captain quarters, overpriced NeX, CCP considering to sell actual gameplay altering items in Nex, and stagnation in the core gameplay is "social content"?

Takeshi Yamato wrote:
I'm going to keep this short:

Walking in stations adds nothing to the game that I pay a subscription for. The best part about it is the fact that it can be turned off so I don't have to endure the increased loading times. I don't see why I should pay for the development of WiS.

And this is reasonable, I sympathize with that statement even. I believe the other topic has already plenty of arguments for an against existence of WiS as such to begin with. I'm trying, though with rather unsatisfactionary results now, to steer this discussion on a bit different track. Cheerio.
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#53 - 2011-12-20 16:16:44 UTC
Ivy Sunkiller wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, are you saying that a single player captain quarters, overpriced NeX, CCP considering to sell actual gameplay altering items in Nex, and stagnation in the core gameplay is "social content"?
It's what we got when CCP tried to implement it. So, effectively, yes.

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Ivy Sunkiller
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#54 - 2011-12-20 16:19:29 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
Ivy Sunkiller wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, are you saying that a single player captain quarters, overpriced NeX, CCP considering to sell actual gameplay altering items in Nex, and stagnation in the core gameplay is "social content"?
It's what we got when CCP tried to implement it. So, effectively, yes.


Fair enough.
Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#55 - 2011-12-20 16:22:34 UTC
Quote:
And this is reasonable, I sympathize with that statement even. I believe the other topic has already plenty of arguments for an against existence of WiS as such to begin with. I'm trying, though with rather unsatisfactionary results now, to steer this discussion on a bit different track. Cheerio.


I'd suggest that you come to terms with reality. The average EVE player doesn't want WiS and subscription numbers rapidly declined due to the magnitude of the fiasco that it was. The CEO of CCP issued a formal apology and promised to make things better, starting with putting WiS on ice.

Do you sincerely believe that you can change the opinion of the community or are you just a glutton for punishment?
Ivy Sunkiller
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#56 - 2011-12-20 16:34:06 UTC
Takeshi Yamato wrote:
I'd suggest that you come to terms with reality. The average EVE player doesn't want WiS and subscription numbers rapidly declined due to the magnitude of the fiasco that it was. The CEO of CCP issued a formal apology and promised to make things better, starting with putting WiS on ice.
There is a whole list of reasons why Incarna release was a fiasco, yes, I know it was a fiasco. The average EVE player wanted Ambulatorium, and would either want WiS if done properly or, like yourself, simply doesn't care and would rather have resources spent elsewhere. I think I'm not that far from reality, am I?

Takeshi Yamato wrote:
Do you sincerely believe that you can change the opinion of the community or are you just a glutton for punishment?
It is not and was not my goal to change community's opinion. I am more interested in ideas that could make WiS work, for the people that do, still, care. I expected to be flamed to hell and back, but - no risk no gain, it's such an EVE thing to do :).
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#57 - 2011-12-20 20:48:43 UTC
Ivy Sunkiller wrote:
I am more interested in ideas that could make WiS work

Why? Do you secretly want the game to fail?

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#58 - 2011-12-20 21:01:04 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Ivy Sunkiller wrote:
I am more interested in ideas that could make WiS work

Why? Do you secretly want the game to fail?


I thought that was the not so secret stated goal of the little bees and their master.

I've been waiting near four years for WIS. What I got was WICQ instead. A poorly implemented first step, granted, but the potential is there and I look forward to the day I can open the door.

Mr Epeen Cool
Taiwanistan
#59 - 2011-12-21 00:21:25 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Ivy Sunkiller wrote:
I am more interested in ideas that could make WiS work

Why? Do you secretly want the game to fail?


I thought that was the not so secret stated goal of the little bees and their master.

I've been waiting near four years for WIS. What I got was WICQ instead. A poorly implemented first step, granted, but the potential is there and I look forward to the day I can open the door.

Mr Epeen Cool
barbie lover

TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
Taiwanistan
#60 - 2011-12-21 00:22:20 UTC
your promenade idea is shitt by the way

TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."