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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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[Proposal] AT reward revamp
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Hemmo Paskiainen
#1 - 2015-01-31 15:50:48 UTC
My proposal is a controversial one, but please hear me out before judging. We all know the shiny AT prices, the uniek ships that are basically really awesome! Desired as collectors item or just as a wanna have to sit and spin in, or even to create shiny killmails! To be honest, i have had a couple at one point. I haven flown them, with a friends, collecting crazy killmails and creating stories that are still being told today.

Awesome stuff! But as i have a love and hate relationship with eve (even married & divorced), there is this little special place in my hart, with gooood, almost unbeatable memories for EVE. And from out that piece, i am proposing the idea to at least revamp the AT Prices. Revamp, is a big word and i am being carfull here... The idea behind it, is that i find it unhealthy to inject too much reward, in from of ISK, that translates to power, into a corporation or alliance. On long term, the effects would be similar to the first round of alchemy changes back in 2008, with the technetium rebalanced years later. What i am saying is that the idea comes fourth solely from out the motivation to not give too much ISK to entities. Because from my opinion, this could lead to too much unfair advantages. Of course it is a reward, earned fully, and deserved! And it should keep to be!

But things do have changed a bit. The market, and especially the demand in the awesome shiny tournament ships has increased a lot, given their current selling prices. For example, in 2011 they sold for around 30b each. And nowadays, they sell for 130 to 140b each! My opinion is that handing out 50 ships * 130B = 6,5 Trillion ISK, to the winner of the tournament, is maybe a little bit over done. And that's said with some sarcasm. Like... Holy **** .... 6,5 TRILLION ISK!!! To 10 players, or 1 corporation or 1 alliance!! For comparison, that's more ISK than a few big null-sec alliances make together, combined, a Year!! Such a thing, can never be healthy on long term. ISK is everything, and thus, also power, to be able to do things in EVE.

Thus my idea is to bring the value of the AT prices down a bit. How, that is debatable and of course CCP's call. But my initial idea would be to drive up the supply and thus bringing down the market prices. But i don't know to be honest. I dont really think it is upto me to come up with too much idea's for this controversial proposal.

If relativity equals time plus momentum, what equals relativity, if the momentum is minus to the time?
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2015-02-01 17:22:29 UTC
Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:

But things do have changed a bit. The market, and especially the demand in the awesome shiny tournament ships has increased a lot, given their current selling prices. For example, in 2011 they sold for around 30b each. And nowadays, they sell for 130 to 140b each! My opinion is that handing out 50 ships * 130B = 6,5 Trillion ISK, to the winner of the tournament, is maybe a little bit over done. And that's said with some sarcasm. Like... Holy **** .... 6,5 TRILLION ISK!!! To 10 players, or 1 corporation or 1 alliance!! For comparison, that's more ISK than a few big null-sec alliances make together, combined, a Year!! Such a thing, can never be healthy on long term. ISK is everything, and thus, also power, to be able to do things in EVE.

So you have no idea how the economy works? Plex was 350 million once a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far, away.....but it has gone up in price to its value over 800 currently and not really changed. AT ships, have gone up in price but their numbers only plumment. Now, PLEX kind of bounce around in volume while AT ships don't.....but AT ships don't really have value out side collection where as PLEX are far more valuable in day to day transactions.

What I am saying is....both PLEX and AT ships are consumed when purchased, but if one sits in the hangar and the other is right click -> 30 days, where is the power exactly coming from? Isk....nope, that isk was already in game when it is traded, as you said some corps or alliances might make that much in a year or several years. But that isk doesn't really have much power, cause it might buy a few tens of thousands of destroyers or a dozen titans. In the end, that isk is....traded to another player or entity....which means nothing since that isk is still in game.

tl;dr: AT ship -> Isk trade -> buy capitals or what ever = Ok, what happened exactly? AT ship is a hangar queen 99% of the time, its like buying gold and selling years later when the price goes up. Isk, isn't disappearing out of the game very quickly and I am sure there are people with hundreds of PLEX sitting on hand waiting for the price to go up to make a killing for isk. So to sum it up, doesn't matter what item it is, isk isn't really power and AT ships are kind of a joke, its just nerds trading pixel money for pixel goods to own "that item" and claim they have it. Power is the ability to project it, you could have a fraction of what an AT ship is worth and still project power....CODE, udema, Destroyers, and Freighters, don't think there is any trillions of isk involved in that kind of power projection Roll
CW Itovuo
The Executioners
Capital Punishment.
#3 - 2015-02-01 18:08:36 UTC

Disallow the use of AT prize ships in future tournaments.


They create an unfair advantage to the team that uses them.


Even within the AT rule set, CCP favors the previous AT winners by not creating a points disadvantage for their use. Last year, the Ishtar was given a +1 over traditional HACs because it was fairly acknowledged to be OP in comparison. The same should hold true with AT prize ships.

So either disallow them from the competitions, or balance them within the current point structure.


As for attempting to control their price... I could care less. Supply and demand dictates that they'll always be prohibitively expensive.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#4 - 2015-02-01 19:03:56 UTC
Umm . There's absolutely nothing CCP can do to control the price besides injecting more into the market. The price is a number that has been determined to be a fair trade for the power of the ship by the players. He'll, if you found someone willing you could buy one for 1 ISK. Alternatively, if you found a willing buyer you could sell for 5T ISK. It's a player controlled market. CCP's only influence on market is how they control supply (cost to build, rarity of BP's).

The only way CCP could change the prices would be to inject more into the market. And if they ever did that players would likely riot.
Ridvanson
#5 - 2015-02-01 19:42:35 UTC
There are individual players with (way) more than just 6,5 Trillion iskies in their pocket, frankly I don't see a problem ...
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#6 - 2015-02-02 18:30:17 UTC
CW Itovuo wrote:

Disallow the use of AT prize ships in future tournaments.


They create an unfair advantage to the team that uses them.


Even within the AT rule set, CCP favors the previous AT winners by not creating a points disadvantage for their use. Last year, the Ishtar was given a +1 over traditional HACs because it was fairly acknowledged to be OP in comparison. The same should hold true with AT prize ships.

So either disallow them from the competitions, or balance them within the current point structure.


As for attempting to control their price... I could care less. Supply and demand dictates that they'll always be prohibitively expensive.



I might agree if using tournament ships allowed a significantly greater chance of winning, but they just dont. Watch the matches with teams bringing tournament prize ships. They lose...lots!

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#7 - 2015-02-02 18:46:00 UTC
Giving people lots of free isk for arena fights that are completely unrelated to actual conflicts and goals in the game is indeed quite silly.

It doesn't matter if these rewards give an edge in future arena tournaments or not, since besides the massive income, the tournaments have no influence or relation to the rest of the game.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#8 - 2015-02-02 19:08:14 UTC
Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:
Thus my idea is to bring the value of the AT prices down a bit. How, that is debatable and of course CCP's call. But my initial idea would be to drive up the supply and thus bringing down the market prices. But i don't know to be honest. I dont really think it is upto me to come up with too much idea's for this controversial proposal.


CCP doesn't set prices.. Grrrr player-driven economy!!!!

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Kane Ceres
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2015-02-02 20:09:40 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
CW Itovuo wrote:

Disallow the use of AT prize ships in future tournaments.


They create an unfair advantage to the team that uses them.


Even within the AT rule set, CCP favors the previous AT winners by not creating a points disadvantage for their use. Last year, the Ishtar was given a +1 over traditional HACs because it was fairly acknowledged to be OP in comparison. The same should hold true with AT prize ships.

So either disallow them from the competitions, or balance them within the current point structure.


As for attempting to control their price... I could care less. Supply and demand dictates that they'll always be prohibitively expensive.



I might agree if using tournament ships allowed a significantly greater chance of winning, but they just dont. Watch the matches with teams bringing tournament prize ships. They lose...lots!



To futher this point the Risk Vs Reward is pretty balanced, they arent getting them returned they have them blown up and there is another 130 b down the drain for a modest advantage.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#10 - 2015-02-02 22:13:02 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:
Thus my idea is to bring the value of the AT prices down a bit. How, that is debatable and of course CCP's call. But my initial idea would be to drive up the supply and thus bringing down the market prices. But i don't know to be honest. I dont really think it is upto me to come up with too much idea's for this controversial proposal.


CCP doesn't set prices.. Grrrr player-driven economy!!!!




basically. it's only isk made if people buy at the insane prices, They find buyers, willingly-no gun to the head or anything, to buy. Not really a problem here. I sense isk envy. Something I never had so never understood really....some peeps have the isk making ways mastered. Good for them all I can say.


Also not seeing the unfair advantage here. IIRC I only saw one match this year that had a prize ship from another year. And all it did as I recall was act as a distractor really. An attempt was made to kill it that probably would have been a better choice to kill the other stuff on the field. TBH my clearest memories of this years 2 involved 2 logi frigs tanking massive amounts of damage due to damn good pair repping and a match with widows that shut down drones/gecko's for the team to win the match. Widows stood out since as a widow pilot I was going that was a thing of beauty to behold.