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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Shield Tanks vs. Armor Tanks and Gankability.

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Nevil Oscillator
#61 - 2015-02-01 15:39:24 UTC
J'Poll wrote:


Uhm, if you know how to use your ship, they still do.



Yeah I would use an Amarr or Gallente Battlecruiser then the targets EHP would be half as much or I would wait for the logi to tell me it has no shield left and use Tornadoes.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#62 - 2015-02-01 16:16:15 UTC
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
J'Poll wrote:


Uhm, if you know how to use your ship, they still do.



Yeah I would use an Amarr or Gallente Battlecruiser then the targets EHP would be half as much or I would wait for the logi to tell me it has no shield left and use Tornadoes.


You do know how people fit?

Looks like you don't.

Incursion ships are OMNI tanked.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Nevil Oscillator
#63 - 2015-02-01 16:45:55 UTC
J'Poll wrote:


You do know how people fit?

Looks like you don't.

Incursion ships are OMNI tanked.



Is this the part where you pretend not to know what I am talking about to get the thread locked ?
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#64 - 2015-02-01 17:56:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
That fit's EHP is lower for EM and thermal than for explosive. I realise it sounds backwards for a ship that people think is "supposed" to be armour tanked and doesn't have explosive resists.

However, in actuality its shield and armour hit points are pretty much on par meaning that the invuls make total shield EHP much bigger than its armour EHP and thus the normal "shield sucks vs em and thermal" applies. That fit is best ganked with Phased plasma ammo, using Fusion would give the ship extra ~20% EHP.

If you apply gang links it kinda reverses the EM and thermal resists due to EM stacking and then you'll want to use EMP. Using Fusion would still be a terrible choice.
Nevil Oscillator
#65 - 2015-02-01 19:18:47 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
That fit's EHP is lower for EM and thermal than for explosive. I realise it sounds backwards for a ship that people think is "supposed" to be armour tanked and doesn't have explosive resists.

However, in actuality its shield and armour hit points are pretty much on par meaning that the invuls make total shield EHP much bigger than its armour EHP and thus the normal "shield sucks vs em and thermal" applies. That fit is best ganked with Phased plasma ammo, using Fusion would give the ship extra ~20% EHP.

If you apply gang links it kinda reverses the EM and thermal resists due to EM stacking and then you'll want to use EMP. Using Fusion would still be a terrible choice.



Except T2 Projectile Ammunition doesn't have EMP or Phased Plasma
Azda Ja
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#66 - 2015-02-01 19:24:29 UTC
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
That fit's EHP is lower for EM and thermal than for explosive. I realise it sounds backwards for a ship that people think is "supposed" to be armour tanked and doesn't have explosive resists.

However, in actuality its shield and armour hit points are pretty much on par meaning that the invuls make total shield EHP much bigger than its armour EHP and thus the normal "shield sucks vs em and thermal" applies. That fit is best ganked with Phased plasma ammo, using Fusion would give the ship extra ~20% EHP.

If you apply gang links it kinda reverses the EM and thermal resists due to EM stacking and then you'll want to use EMP. Using Fusion would still be a terrible choice.



Except T2 Projectile Ammunition doesn't have EMP or Phased Plasma


Yes, T2 projectile Ammo doesn't have the same damage profile as EMP or Phased Plasma. Guess what though? You can use Phased Plasma and EMP in T2 guns.

Grrr.
Nevil Oscillator
#67 - 2015-02-01 19:40:18 UTC
Azda Ja wrote:



Yes, T2 projectile Ammo doesn't have the same damage profile as EMP or Phased Plasma. Guess what though? You can use Phased Plasma and EMP in T2 guns.



You can and Republic Fleet Ammunition, but I think my Alpha is nothing like 12000
Solonius Rex
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2015-02-01 19:49:02 UTC
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
Azda Ja wrote:



Yes, T2 projectile Ammo doesn't have the same damage profile as EMP or Phased Plasma. Guess what though? You can use Phased Plasma and EMP in T2 guns.



You can and Republic Fleet Ammunition, but I think my Alpha is nothing like 12000


Not much difference in Alpha between T2 and RFA. I just fitted up a simple nado with full gyros and 1400mm arties and they deal only 170 more alpha with T2 than with RFA.
Nevil Oscillator
#69 - 2015-02-01 20:00:05 UTC
Solonius Rex wrote:


Not much difference in Alpha between T2 and RFA. I just fitted up a simple nado with full gyros and 1400mm arties and they deal only 170 more alpha with T2 than with RFA.



They are listed as doing between 2500 and 6500 damage each . 7 Ships there could have been more because with alpha the last ships to shoot might have no target to shoot at.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#70 - 2015-02-01 20:06:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
Azda Ja wrote:



Yes, T2 projectile Ammo doesn't have the same damage profile as EMP or Phased Plasma. Guess what though? You can use Phased Plasma and EMP in T2 guns.



You can and Republic Fleet Ammunition, but I think my Alpha is nothing like 12000

You get just below 12k alpha with T2 guns, RF ammo and 4 T2 gyros. With domination ammo you'd get that over 12k and would you also use RF-603 and LP-1003 you'd almost hit 13k. Generally when making defensive calculations I'll use 12K as a benchmark number.

For offensive calculations I'll use slightly more realistic 11K or actual pilot API although that would never happen of course...
Solonius Rex
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2015-02-01 20:10:42 UTC
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
Solonius Rex wrote:


Not much difference in Alpha between T2 and RFA. I just fitted up a simple nado with full gyros and 1400mm arties and they deal only 170 more alpha with T2 than with RFA.



They are listed as doing between 2500 and 6500 damage each . 7 Ships there could have been more because with alpha the last ships to shoot might have no target to shoot at.


Of cousre, your alpha decreases due to resists. 12k is only the amount of damage you do if they have 0 resists. But even so, you can switch to faction ammo and sitll not see a considerable decrease in damage.
Nevil Oscillator
#72 - 2015-02-01 20:11:43 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
Azda Ja wrote:



Yes, T2 projectile Ammo doesn't have the same damage profile as EMP or Phased Plasma. Guess what though? You can use Phased Plasma and EMP in T2 guns.



You can and Republic Fleet Ammunition, but I think my Alpha is nothing like 12000

You get just below 12k alpha with T2 guns, RF ammo and 4 T2 gyros. With domination ammo you'd get that over 12k and would you also use RF-603 and LP-1003 you'd almost hit 13k. Generally when making defensive calculations I'll use 12K as a benchmark number.

For offensive calculations I'll use slightly more realistic 11K or actual pilot API although that would never happen of course...


Better to be a safe carebear than a sorry carebear.. lol
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#73 - 2015-02-01 20:11:59 UTC
Solonius Rex wrote:
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
Solonius Rex wrote:


Not much difference in Alpha between T2 and RFA. I just fitted up a simple nado with full gyros and 1400mm arties and they deal only 170 more alpha with T2 than with RFA.



They are listed as doing between 2500 and 6500 damage each . 7 Ships there could have been more because with alpha the last ships to shoot might have no target to shoot at.


Of cousre, your alpha decreases due to resists. 12k is only the amount of damage you do if they have 0 resists. But even so, you can switch to faction ammo and sitll not see a considerable decrease in damage.


wat?
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#74 - 2015-02-01 20:28:35 UTC
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
That fit's EHP is lower for EM and thermal than for explosive. I realise it sounds backwards for a ship that people think is "supposed" to be armour tanked and doesn't have explosive resists.

However, in actuality its shield and armour hit points are pretty much on par meaning that the invuls make total shield EHP much bigger than its armour EHP and thus the normal "shield sucks vs em and thermal" applies. That fit is best ganked with Phased plasma ammo, using Fusion would give the ship extra ~20% EHP.

If you apply gang links it kinda reverses the EM and thermal resists due to EM stacking and then you'll want to use EMP. Using Fusion would still be a terrible choice.



Except T2 Projectile Ammunition doesn't have EMP or Phased Plasma


HAHAHAHA

Except one can load T1 ammo in T2 guns.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Nevil Oscillator
#75 - 2015-02-01 20:37:58 UTC
J'Poll wrote:


HAHAHAHA

Except one can load T1 ammo in T2 guns.


At an average of 5000 alpha , how many tornadoes would it take to kill that ship if it had a full shield ?
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#76 - 2015-02-01 20:41:49 UTC
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
J'Poll wrote:


HAHAHAHA

Except one can load T1 ammo in T2 guns.


At an average of 5000 alpha , how many tornadoes would it take to kill that ship if it had a full shield ?

you misspelt oracles there, and it depends on two things

1) security rating of the system and

2) me not telling you to do the math your self .

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Nevil Oscillator
#77 - 2015-02-01 20:48:12 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:


it depends on two things

1) security rating of the system and

2) me not telling you to do the math your self .


I will let you into a secret Ralph

Not even in Uedama does Concord take 41 seconds to turn up.
Azda Ja
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#78 - 2015-02-01 20:55:30 UTC
Nevil, consider going back to GD for your trolling attempts. It will go over better for you.

Grrr.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#79 - 2015-02-01 21:01:29 UTC
Nevil Oscillator
#80 - 2015-02-01 21:10:12 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
shut up nevil


Ralph you are by far the best toon on here, you just need to realize that a Vindicator has 30+k EHP armour against an Oracle and a good 20+k structure.

But I know where you can find one with less.