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Balancing of potential isk per hour over ratting, mining and missiong

Author
MainDrain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2015-02-01 15:17:53 UTC
A recent post on the Eve Online subreddit got me thinking

Link

As is stands a well skilled Orca/Hulk combo can provide the equivalent of roughly 35mil per hour.

With a similar amount of effort you could use an AFKtar at make 60-80million per hour (based on my own skills, one character, no salvage or loot) or make 80-100 million per hour running Incursions (based on Vanguard sites). Even running level 4 missions can bring in a good 50-80 million per hour before salvage and loot if ran efficently!

The whole basic principle of mining (the ore collection side) needs a radical rethink to increase the potential isk per hour. Making it a case of the more attention you pay it, the higher the skills the more isk you can potentially make the same amount of isk per hour.

I would consider anything over 30 million per hour should be the lowest level of isk per hour of any activity that requires little to no input. Actively taking part in an activity should push that level up to 60 million per hour (At this rate you would make enough isk to buy a plex playing an average of 2 hours per day, 7 days a week)

Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2015-02-01 15:49:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Adrie Atticus
Mining is subject to market prices where as mission rewards and bounties are not, outside of balancing timed rewards on the average of time it takes to complete.

If you increase yield, you will drive prices down, lowering the perceived gain. Outside of gain the only way to increase your income is to corner all the ore markets in every region.

What is the actual suggestion in this thread, didn't see one which changes the game?
Zimmer Jones
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2015-02-01 15:52:21 UTC
If miners want to make more, they have to hop in combat ships and do alot of shooting and hope for very big wars. Miners make isk based on the markets demand for their ores. When i started playing the value of ore was crap, and got worse. The big wars and bit of ganking has brought the values of ore back up to a good income level. if you want it better, get a huge amount of miner buddies, and disturb some ****.

The other incomes have been standard, nothing needs to change. if its not afktars its afk domis, or afk carriers. want more money mining? Disturb their **** too.

Use the force without consent and the court wont acquit you even if you are a card carryin', robe wearin' Jedi.

Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2015-02-01 17:11:04 UTC
To make more isk mining....
Join code and kill as many miners as possible thus reducing the supply of minerals and making them more valuble.
You're welcome.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85

elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#5 - 2015-02-01 17:15:20 UTC
Silvetica Dian wrote:
To make more isk mining....
Join code and kill as many miners as possible thus reducing the supply of minerals and making them more valuble.
You're welcome.


Oh boy..

Here is somthing for industrialist in empire space. Increade price of Catalysts to 10 billion each, it's empire pay day.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2015-02-01 17:26:48 UTC
But OP, if you increase the yield, you decrease the price...
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#7 - 2015-02-01 17:31:31 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Silvetica Dian wrote:
To make more isk mining....
Join code and kill as many miners as possible thus reducing the supply of minerals and making them more valuble.
You're welcome.


Oh boy..

Here is somthing for industrialist in empire space. Increade price of Catalysts to 10 billion each, it's empire pay day.

Got a chuckle out of this idea.
In reality I doubt it would have any real affect on gankers or the costs of minerals, all of the gankers that I know build their favorite gank ships because it is cheaper that way.
Iain Cariaba
#8 - 2015-02-01 17:43:36 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
elitatwo wrote:
Silvetica Dian wrote:
To make more isk mining....
Join code and kill as many miners as possible thus reducing the supply of minerals and making them more valuble.
You're welcome.


Oh boy..

Here is somthing for industrialist in empire space. Increade price of Catalysts to 10 billion each, it's empire pay day.

Got a chuckle out of this idea.
In reality I doubt it would have any real affect on gankers or the costs of minerals, all of the gankers that I know build their favorite gank ships because it is cheaper that way.

That and people like me, who have no problems at all with CODE., would just start building them and selling them cheaper. It's nice knowing how to not get ganked. Smile
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2015-02-01 21:25:29 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Oh boy..

Here is somthing for industrialist in empire space. Increade price of Catalysts to 10 billion each, it's empire pay day.

plenty of other ships I can gank with

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Dave stark
#10 - 2015-02-01 23:01:21 UTC
Ore is a commodity sold on the market. Supply and demand dictates the isk/hour not game mechanics or ccp.
chaosgrimm
Synth Tech
#11 - 2015-02-02 00:07:53 UTC
Do mining missions.
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
United Caldari Space Command.
#12 - 2015-02-02 00:46:21 UTC
What miners need is more risky, complex content similar to sleeper caches that does not require them to use weapons - but does require them to use their minds to successfully achieve without losses or significant isk loss. Ie: Ring Belt Mining - Comet Mining - Riskier Gas Mining.

Different tasks that are civilian in nature but can be done for great risk with great reward. Current mining as it is shouldn't see an increase as it is not challenging past player forced content. I do believe that miners deserve a bone though - but not increased yields without increased risk / attentiveness.
Daoden
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2015-02-02 00:50:37 UTC
you want to make more mining, go to null sec and mine. just don't count the amount of isk lost in ships and youll love the numbers
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
#14 - 2015-02-02 01:40:18 UTC
Nothing to fix here....

MIners choose this path. they tend to want less active ways to make isk. Now we can argue how much work feeding targets and pressing f1 is I suppose but hey...its a reason for many the take away.

So they get what they want....and get the pay it rates.

I mined for a bit and saw the light. Then I saw I made more in a lazy tanked tengu and switched to that. Kept it lazy (what I like) as its orbit really fast to tank decent (bs need more work to tank well with burst tank and such...my tengu is cap stable press buttons and done really). Or as you say drone boat options that just have the "work" of keeping drones alive on aggro shifts.

Well that and they cut their own throats here really. I like low price buy orders. May take varying times but in time I get miners who need isk right now right now to fill them. Put themselves in an area that is market affected and deals with competition via buy orders to be eve's version of cheap "outsourced" labor, well the results should not be unexpected really.
13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2015-04-15 02:21:19 UTC  |  Edited by: 13kr1d1
Miners also choose to sell their ore or minerals for less than the same amount of mission runners' income.

Miners do indeed choose to work longer and sell their product for sub par gains compared to mission runners. The problem fixes itself when people stop the process. Its better to stockpile ore and sell the right stuff at the right time, and then mission run if you need isk in the here and now.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/martinzwilling/2012/09/16/10-reality-checks-before-starting-your-own-business/

Most of them do seem quite happy making no isk and spending lots of hours "playing" eve.

If there were any frustrated about it, they'd find other venues of "resources" to "mine", or they'd restrict the outflow of their product, trade in smaller amounts for higher prices so as not to flood the market and put themselves out of business.

In short, the lowest common denominator, the guy with no job willing to bang on rocks for 8 hours a day for 15 isk a veld, he's one of the problems. You can't compete with that, so you have to change your market practices with your product and diversify your sources of income.

Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices

Lugh Crow-Slave
#16 - 2015-04-15 05:31:12 UTC
I make 2bill a weak and only log on once a weak for 3-4 hours


it's mostly afk except clicking jump and dock a few times



so how much are we adding to ore to balance it up to this level?
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#17 - 2015-04-15 05:40:29 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
But OP, if you increase the yield, you decrease the price...


Dave Stark wrote:
Ore is a commodity sold on the market. Supply and demand dictates the isk/hour not game mechanics or ccp.


Exactly.

Miners ... if you don't understand how it works ...
... trying to "improve" mining is nonsense.

Anything that increases the income of a miner only works short-time ...
... because people will mine more until prices drop again.

Increasing demand by rwising mineral needs for production doesn't work either ...
... because when everything gets more expensive ...
... your actual gain equals zero again.


These two posts ended the thread already.
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Cade Windstalker
#18 - 2015-04-15 05:49:52 UTC
Seconding what basically everyone else is saying here. If you want to increase your mining income move to Null. Mining is the entire basis for the Eve economy. The more you mine the lower the prices dip due to increased supply. It's simple economics 101.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#19 - 2015-04-15 06:26:03 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Seconding what basically everyone else is saying here. If you want to increase your mining income move to Null. Mining is the entire basis for the Eve economy. The more you mine the lower the prices dip due to increased supply. It's simple economics 101.



Well then CCP should just add NPC buy orders because this player run economy is to hard to work with
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#20 - 2015-04-15 06:54:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Well then CCP should just add NPC buy orders because this player run economy is to hard to work with

How is it too hard? Just cause more consumption or less supply, or do different stuff to enhance your income. It's not that hard. Threads like these just show that many players are in dire need of more voltage to brighten up their dimly smoldering bulbs to enhance their gameplay. As most people here and even the OP already said: Go AFKtar or fly Incursions and missions. The less people mine, the less minerals are in the market and the more miners earn.

What I find deeply troubling is the notion expressed by the OP that something has to have huge ISK/hour to warrant a protection fleet. You are protecting your own groups/empires assets with such a fleet and you want to generate PVP activity for your members. What better bait is there than a properly set up mining fleet in Titan range waiting for harassers to show up and that you can pound on. Besides being troubling for the denial of this PVP source, it is also funny because people sit hours on end without anything to do on gates and "camp" it or sit in station and count their ship spins, yet waiting for a mining fleet to get molested and to punish the molesters is something no one wants to do. Roll

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

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