These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Shield Tanks vs. Armor Tanks and Gankability.

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#41 - 2015-02-01 10:46:36 UTC
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
J'Poll wrote:


Obviously you never heard or know how killmails and damage application works.



He likely had reps on him remotely, so that's why damage from sansha is that high.



I don't know anything, it's not my example, you explain to me exactly what happened to its 200k EHP ?

7 tornado's happened, they had enough time to get a second volly off as it was a .6 system

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Nevil Oscillator
#42 - 2015-02-01 10:51:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevil Oscillator
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:

7 tornado's happened, they had enough time to get a second volly off as it was a .6 system



I only count 25k damage, that ship was a shield tanker already into armour.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#43 - 2015-02-01 11:08:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:

7 tornado's happened, they had enough time to get a second volly off as it was a .6 system



Ii only count 25k damage, that ship was a shield tanker already into armour


Don't believe kill mail damage done. A max skilled gank Tornado can, if you commit to it like you probably would with targets like these, do 12k volley damage. 7 ships will thus do ~80k EHP per volley, as explained there was time to do 2 volleys = 160k damage.

A quick check on that killmail's fit shows that total EHP versus EMP or PP is roughly 105k EHP so that was massive overkill, not even requiring fantastic skills on the ganker's part.
Nevil Oscillator
#44 - 2015-02-01 11:11:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevil Oscillator
The ship has taken 500k damage yet there is no rep module which means some mysterious 3rd party was providing reps.

If we aren't going to believe the kill mail then it is no use as an example.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#45 - 2015-02-01 11:17:42 UTC
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
The ship has taken 500k damage yet there is no rep module which means some mysterious 3rd party was providing reps.

now your just being obtuse nevil, its clearly an incursion runner

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Nevil Oscillator
#46 - 2015-02-01 11:20:58 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
The ship has taken 500k damage yet there is no rep module which means some mysterious 3rd party was providing reps.

now your just being obtuse nevil, its clearly an incursion runner



And that affects my observation in what way ?
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#47 - 2015-02-01 11:34:39 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
The ship has taken 500k damage yet there is no rep module which means some mysterious 3rd party was providing reps.

now your just being obtuse nevil, its clearly an incursion runner



And that affects my observation in what way ?


*cough* Logistics Cruisers....

You do know there is something called REMOTE repair modules?

You do know they don't show up on killmails (as they don't negatively affect a ship)?


I guess, both are answered with a no.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Nevil Oscillator
#48 - 2015-02-01 11:40:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevil Oscillator
J'Poll wrote:


*cough* Logistics Cruisers....

You do know there is something called REMOTE repair modules?

You do know they don't show up on killmails (as they don't negatively affect a ship)?


I guess, both are answered with a no.


You are following this conversation as to who said that there might be logi cruisers involved ?
And the fact I have just suggested that the logi pilot has set the ambush up.
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#49 - 2015-02-01 12:08:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Cannibal Kane
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
J'Poll wrote:


*cough* Logistics Cruisers....

You do know there is something called REMOTE repair modules?

You do know they don't show up on killmails (as they don't negatively affect a ship)?


I guess, both are answered with a no.


You are following this conversation as to who said that there might be logi cruisers involved ?
And the fact I have just suggested that the logi pilot has set the ambush up.


Seriously Nevil,

What is wrong with you.

Look at the ship with the most damage. That is a sasha nation ship, the OP is flying a blinged out Shield Vindicator which is used by many incursion bears.

These missions have multiple people in them, providing logistical support since the ship on it's own fitted like that will never survive an incursion without somebody repairing him. Which is why it shows the sansha ship did over 500k damage.

A NPC aggression timer is also 15 minutes so he could have been ganked shortly after finishing that incursion which why it shows that much damage. If he docked and unlocked 16 minutes later that Sansha ship and 500k done would not have shown in the killmail.

Your argument that the Logi pilot set it up is also very plausible, however there will be multiple logi pilots involved during an incursion. So I doubt all of them are involved.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Nevil Oscillator
#50 - 2015-02-01 12:11:31 UTC
Cannibal Kane wrote:


Seriously Nevil,

What is wrong with you.



It was Miss Dread Pirate Scarlett in the conservatory with the lead pipe.
Nevil Oscillator
#51 - 2015-02-01 13:36:35 UTC
Cannibal Kane wrote:


A NPC aggression timer is also 15 minutes so he could have been ganked shortly after finishing that incursion which why it shows that much damage. If he docked and unlocked 16 minutes later that Sansha ship and 500k done would not have shown in the killmail.

Your argument that the Logi pilot set it up is also very plausible, however there will be multiple logi pilots involved during an incursion. So I doubt all of them are involved.


I think it lists all damage from NPC as a single ship.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#52 - 2015-02-01 13:43:32 UTC
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
Cannibal Kane wrote:


A NPC aggression timer is also 15 minutes so he could have been ganked shortly after finishing that incursion which why it shows that much damage. If he docked and unlocked 16 minutes later that Sansha ship and 500k done would not have shown in the killmail.

Your argument that the Logi pilot set it up is also very plausible, however there will be multiple logi pilots involved during an incursion. So I doubt all of them are involved.


I think it lists all damage from NPC as a single ship.


correct
when flipping bears the the mission npc's all show as a single entry on the kill mail with a % even if the bear repped his shield up to full before engaging me

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Nevil Oscillator
#53 - 2015-02-01 13:56:47 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:

when flipping bears the the mission npc's all show as a single entry on the kill mail with a % even if the bear repped his shield up to full before engaging me


So there is a fair chance that Vindicator had already been fighting for an hour before the gankers turned up. The author of your link does have a few theories including that the gankers sold the vindicator the mods in the first place .. lol
Nevil Oscillator
#54 - 2015-02-01 14:19:51 UTC

But personally I think 8 Tornadoes don't turn up for a suicide mission without a few assurances regarding the ability of their target to withstand their attack.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#55 - 2015-02-01 14:40:33 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Nevil Oscillator wrote:

But personally I think 8 Tornadoes don't turn up for a suicide mission without a few assurances regarding the ability of their target to withstand their attack.


Uhm

No reps will safe you against alpha kills.

Ship scan + math is garuanteed kill.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Nevil Oscillator
#56 - 2015-02-01 15:07:09 UTC
J'Poll wrote:


Uhm

No reps will safe you against alpha kills.

Ship scan + math is garuanteed kill.




Lot of Explosive damage on a max tornado alpha
Nevil Oscillator
#57 - 2015-02-01 15:15:16 UTC
2 Purple Adaptives and a a DC2
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#58 - 2015-02-01 15:20:27 UTC
Simple calculation:


Calculate amount of EHP of target

Calculate amount of Alpha damage a tornado



ROUNDUP(EHP Target / Alpha damage tornado) = needed tornados


Now, all you ahve to do, coordinate the attack itself.


p.s. NO module or friend in logi will help you against alpha ganks.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Nevil Oscillator
#59 - 2015-02-01 15:25:06 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Simple calculation:


Calculate amount of EHP of target

Calculate amount of Alpha damage a tornado



ROUNDUP(EHP Target / Alpha damage tornado) = needed tornados


Now, all you ahve to do, coordinate the attack itself.


p.s. NO module or friend in logi will help you against alpha ganks.



Yeah if weapons did maximum damage to any target except buildings
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#60 - 2015-02-01 15:31:07 UTC
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Simple calculation:


Calculate amount of EHP of target

Calculate amount of Alpha damage a tornado



ROUNDUP(EHP Target / Alpha damage tornado) = needed tornados


Now, all you ahve to do, coordinate the attack itself.


p.s. NO module or friend in logi will help you against alpha ganks.



Yeah if weapons did maximum damage to any target except buildings


Uhm, if you know how to use your ship, they still do.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club