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Getting people out of NPC corporations

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Jenshae Chiroptera
#61 - 2015-01-31 15:15:26 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
I'm all for coaxing or coercing people out of NPC corps and all against forcing them out..
Quoted to OP.

Inter-NPC wars might be one way to nudge people along.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#62 - 2015-01-31 15:36:59 UTC
I highly doubt that. In contrast, I think more people would join NPC corps as they get a lot of free targets, don't need to pay for war and don't have to worry about stats or systems.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#63 - 2015-01-31 15:52:34 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
I highly doubt that. In contrast, I think more people would join NPC corps as they get a lot of free targets, don't need to pay for war and don't have to worry about stats or systems.
The wars do not need to be constant and newbie ones can be immune to it. There is more in the OP from another thread.

This is an evolving thread like most of the ones I start. (Some might say mutating) P

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#64 - 2015-01-31 15:55:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Hopelesshobo wrote:
1 man corporations do wonders.
Just as bad for the hassle of declaring war on them.
There should be a minimum number and activity requirement after the first two weeks.



Lets....have this for a moment.


What is your magical number of people? I can get 2 accounts for 6 in my one man (its at 3 now for 1 account). You have real player corps smaller than this.

Are making adding dead weight crap members a part of this plan?

You'd also have to define activity. PVP or PVE?

This one man at times exists for indy work almost exclusively. An item I used to make was blops. from invention to building (assuming I get invent hits) is a week easy. Will me rolling out 1 blops a week count as active?

If not you have a problem....many small start ups that are real player corps (the inventor, the hauler and the seller are 3 real people....me its 2 of my alts and the main when in empire on breaks like now) won't meet the requirement either.

I do say 4 blops a month...thats 2.8 bil in materials I am moving pulling a build cost of 700 out of thin air (cba to work up a spreadsheer for actuals atm tbh). If not good enough for my 1 man to rate being active you are gonna have small real indy corps cut off as well as they can't push 2.8 bil a month as probably out of their reach fresh to the indy world.

PVP....how do determine active? Don't say km's. I have had some dead ass roams in my time where besides practice in formation flying with the FC nothing much happened. 20 out 20 back...the only thing that died was our enthusiasm lol. I had several nights a week like this. Null bears want to safe up, not much you can do really. SO for these dead roams would log in count as active. If so...well I just log in and don't play to stay active the workaround lol.
Shai'd Hulud
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2015-01-31 17:13:46 UTC
No thank's
-1
Reason : This is the choice of the player.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#66 - 2015-01-31 17:28:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Zan Shiro wrote:
What is your magical number of people?
I would need to run a study on it, using hard numbers that the EVE database has or could gather.
Shai'd Hulud wrote:
Reason : This is the choice of the player.
A choice based on taking what they see as the safest option, which flies against the vision of conflict in EVE. It is a weakness in the coding that is exploited.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Zimmer Jones
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2015-01-31 17:44:45 UTC
Introduce new content: Non-school NPC corps go to war with each other on rare occasions and during wars warring NPC corp taxes rise.

Use the force without consent and the court wont acquit you even if you are a card carryin', robe wearin' Jedi.
ashley Eoner
#68 - 2015-01-31 19:38:59 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
Anthar Thebess wrote:

Because players moving out of the NPC corporations means actually more player to player interactions. Making new friends, and new enemies.

How does moving me out of a corporation that has +300 people to a one man corp means "more player to player interactions"??


No one has provided a legitimate reason for pushing people out of NPC corps. Some have hinted that they dislike the inability to easily grief newbies but that's about it. If you want something changed you're going to need to demonstrate why it's unhealthy for the game in it's current form.



The premise of this thread can be summed up as such.

Sandbox for me but not for thee
Jenshae Chiroptera
#69 - 2015-01-31 20:31:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
ashley Eoner wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:

Because players moving out of the NPC corporations means actually more player to player interactions. Making new friends, and new enemies.
No one has provided a legitimate reason for pushing people out of NPC corps.
EVE has the premise that it is a harsh universe.
Staying in high sec and hiding in a NPC corp is like saying in the tutorial zone in most other MMOs. However, in most tutorial zones you are capped, where as here you can fly what ever ship you like under the safest conditions you can find.

Ideally a change to NPC corps would see large groups of veterans and newbies making large player corps. Check my kill board, I am not some newbie kill farmer.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#70 - 2015-01-31 20:34:32 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:

Because players moving out of the NPC corporations means actually more player to player interactions. Making new friends, and new enemies.
No one has provided a legitimate reason for pushing people out of NPC corps.
EVE has the premise that it is a harsh universe.
Staying in high sec and hiding in a NPC corp is like saying in the tutorial zone in most other MMOs. However, in most tutorial zones you are capped, where as here you can fly what ever ship you like under the safest conditions you can find.

Ideally a change to NPC corps would see large groups of veterans and newbies making large player corps. Check my kill board, I am not some newbie kill farmer.

True, ideally a change would see large groups of veterans and newbies making large player corps.

Absolutely none of you proposals would have that effect though.
FireFrenzy
Cynosural Samurai
#71 - 2015-01-31 22:31:32 UTC
The thing is you can say "people should move out of NPC corps" but at the end of the day they might not want to...

And a stick has always been a craptastic motivator... "Play this game in this way or i'm going to make you do XYZ" might have all sorts of good intentions behind it. But at the end of the day the people who chill in highsec running level 4s in their internet spaceships after dinner because, well, no other game does internet spaceships. Who are you to tell them to change their play style?

I know i hated my time in nullsec, including with your CVA overlords, and moved back to highsec where i primarily carebear in a corp that might as well be a 1 man corp, (SATUN is mostly dead unfortunatly). At the end of the day shouldn't what I want have some impact on the game I play? I mean its all cool and all to want everyone to move out to nullsec and worship at the altar of Steve (blessed be His name) but what if i don't want to? I tried that and i have never been more miserable in my time playing eve... Sc0rched earth was boring (great war for the south or not), CVA was full of retards and rejects, NAGA i never really interacted with...

And the most fun i had in eve ever might very well have been when i was a newbro "levelling my megathron" (since well **** ravens) in EKT. Sure it was a player corp but that doesn't change anything, if we got wardecced we just didnt play for a week or two and ignored it that way rather then just being undeccable...
Jenshae Chiroptera
#72 - 2015-01-31 23:04:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Anhenka wrote:
True, ideally a change would see large groups of veterans and newbies making large player corps.
Absolutely none of you proposals would have that effect though.
Thread is open to your counter proposals. Blink
FireFrenzy wrote:
But at the end of the day the people who chill in highsec running level 4s in their internet spaceships after dinner because, well, no other game does internet spaceships. ...
Star Citizen.
Elite: Dangerous.
Star Trek Online

Just to name some off the top of my head.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#73 - 2015-02-01 01:51:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Donnachadh
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Anhenka wrote:
True, ideally a change would see large groups of veterans and newbies making large player corps.
Absolutely none of you proposals would have that effect though.
Thread is open to your counter proposals. Blink
FireFrenzy wrote:
But at the end of the day the people who chill in highsec running level 4s in their internet spaceships after dinner because, well, no other game does internet spaceships. ...
Star Citizen.
Elite: Dangerous.
Star Trek Online

Just to name some off the top of my head.


As one of those who spends a lot of time chillin in high sec I will tell you that you are wrong at least from my point of view.
I tried all of those games and none of them held any interest for me.
EvE is a big universe it will support a lot of players who do their own thing, if you do not like what they do then don't look or go somewhere else.

On the one hand we have the PvP oriented crowd that will rabidly defend "their right" to wage useless wars against people who have no desire to be involved in them and will posts walls of texts railing against anyone that thinks we should eliminate wars in high sec altogether.
On the other hand these same people have no problems asking CCP to "FORCE" others into a play style they do not want, or to eliminate their play style completely.

I find this conundrum very interesting, yet very disturbing at the same time because in the end it all comes down to the same thing. Play the game the way I want you to play or get the hell out.

High sec players have to learn to deal with the restrictions of NPC, or the hassles of war decs it is only fair that you on the other side have to learn to deal with how these high sec folks want to play the game they pay for.
Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#74 - 2015-02-01 01:53:56 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:

On the one hand we have the PvP oriented crowd that will rabidly defend "their right" to wage useless wars against people who have no desire to be involved in them and will posts walls of texts railing against anyone that thinks we should eliminate wars in high sec altogether.
On the other hand these same people have no problems asking CCP to "FORCE" others into a play style they do not want, or to eliminate that play style completely.


You forgot the middle crowd who laughs at both sides for being tinfoil wearing, far out loonies who believes the game revolves only around their playstyle.
Scifi
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#75 - 2015-02-01 02:26:08 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
Lead with the carrot, not with the stick.

Encouraging proliferation of 1 man altcorps with even less social interaction than NPC is even worse than people staying in the NPC corps.

At least then they have a shared chat channel with many others to maybe get them talking and involved with someone.


This. All of the this. I see so many corps that have 1 or 2 people that you just know they are nothing but a corp for a single player and their alts.
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2015-02-01 04:57:24 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:
No one has provided a legitimate reason for pushing people out of NPC corps.

EVE has the premise that it is a harsh universe.
Staying in high sec and hiding in a NPC corp is like saying in the tutorial zone in most other MMOs. However, in most tutorial zones you are capped, where as here you can fly what ever ship you like under the safest conditions you can find.


Staying in highsec and being in an NPC corp are two entirely different things. Concentrating on NPC corp membership isn't going to change people's interest in highsec. Going back to your OP, the only valid point about NPC corps I can find is they can't be wardeced. Which I happen to think is not a big deal because plenty of targets can be found in null and low. If you can't find enough targets because you can't wardec them in highsec, I think the issue is with you, not with the lack of ability to wardec.

Quote:
Ideally a change to NPC corps would see large groups of veterans and newbies making large player corps.


Ugh. Heck no. I have zero interest in being part of a large player corp. I'm the master of my own destiny. And that is another major premise of EVE.

People who want to be part of large player corps will join large player corps, like EVE Uni or RvB or BNI. Those that don't aren't suddenly going to join up just because they can't be in an NPC corp.
FireFrenzy
Cynosural Samurai
#77 - 2015-02-01 09:50:13 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Anhenka wrote:
True, ideally a change would see large groups of veterans and newbies making large player corps.
Absolutely none of you proposals would have that effect though.
Thread is open to your counter proposals. Blink
FireFrenzy wrote:
But at the end of the day the people who chill in highsec running level 4s in their internet spaceships after dinner because, well, no other game does internet spaceships. ...
Star Citizen.
Elite: Dangerous.
Star Trek Online

Just to name some off the top of my head.


Not the same though...

For my personal vision, i LOVE EVE. I love everything about it, the backstabbing the rock paper scissors building, all of the awesome nullsec stuff... I just DON'T WANT TO BE A PART OF IT... I want to watch it on youtube and hear about it from people. And maybe at some point it'll become interesting to me and i'll move back out to somewhere but for now nope...
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
#78 - 2015-02-01 12:36:03 UTC  |  Edited by: McChicken Combo HalfMayo
admiral root wrote:
I don't like NPC corps. For the most part, they're just somewhere for people to hide because parts of the game scare them or something. Whatever. You can increase the tax rate, you can restrict x, y and z, but none of these things will make the majority of the chickens join real corps. What will happen is that as each individual reaches their maximum tolerance for increased penalties for their cowardice, they'll quit the game. Whether or not that's good for the health of Eve is another debate entirely and not relevant to this thread.

What you can do is entice *some* of the NPCs into becoming real people. Shooting them in the face is a good way to do that. Maybe CCP can do some things, too, but honestly I don't think it'd be worth them investing too much time in it because ultimately it comes down to us players to show NPCs the light.

This post deserves repeating.

The underlying issue is the disease of carebearism. Unfortunately the marketing team advertises the game in a way that is surreptitious about the true nature of the game. The outcome of which is scores of players flooding the game who believe it to be WoW in space.

Balancing rewards for player corporation may push the min-max player out of NPC land, but it will do nothing for the "I just want to mine in peace" player.

There are all our dominion

Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin
ashley Eoner
#79 - 2015-02-01 15:49:32 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:

Because players moving out of the NPC corporations means actually more player to player interactions. Making new friends, and new enemies.
No one has provided a legitimate reason for pushing people out of NPC corps.
EVE has the premise that it is a harsh universe.
Staying in high sec and hiding in a NPC corp is like saying in the tutorial zone in most other MMOs. However, in most tutorial zones you are capped, where as here you can fly what ever ship you like under the safest conditions you can find.

Ideally a change to NPC corps would see large groups of veterans and newbies making large player corps. Check my kill board, I am not some newbie kill farmer.

Oh so you want Eve to be like "most other MMOs". No thanks. You are aware that there are newbie tutorial zones right? Highsec is not a tutorial zone and if you feel like it is feel free to send me the name(s) of your high sec character(s) and I'll show you how much of a "tutorial zone" it is...

You're providing no solution that will result in your ideal though..

Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Star Citizen.
Elite: Dangerous.
Star Trek Online

Just to name some off the top of my head.

Star Citizen isn't even out of beta and it's an entirely different game from what eve is. Elite Dangerous isn't even in the same realm as eve either.

Star trek online... really? You're going to say that's the same gameplay as eve?


McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:

This post deserves repeating.

The underlying issue is the disease of carebearism. Unfortunately the marketing team advertises the game in a way that is surreptitious about the true nature of the game. The outcome of which is scores of players flooding the game who believe it to be WoW in space.

Balancing rewards for player corporation may push the min-max player out of NPC land, but it will do nothing for the "I just want to mine in peace" player.
The underlying disease is babies like you who think they are "elite" or the "master race" because they are in a player corp greifing newbies who are trying to figure out the game still. You're mad because you can't freely gank newbies we get it. You're also probably mad because you can't lock that 5 man corp of newbies in perpetual war without them leaving the corp. We get it.

You're the disease. You're too lazy to do the research required to find a god wartarget. You're too lazy to go into null and setup your own claim to space.

No you're too busy kicking newbies in your cata in highsec. I'm sure after reading this you'll want to vent your frustration on more retrievers and ventures..

If Eve is too hard for you then go kick some puppies somewhere else.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#80 - 2015-02-02 03:46:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
ashley Eoner wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Star Citizen.
Elite: Dangerous.
Star Trek Online
Just to name some off the top of my head.

Star Citizen isn't even out of beta and it's an entirely different game from what eve is. Elite Dangerous isn't even in the same realm as eve either.
Star trek online... really? You're going to say that's the same gameplay as eve?
They talked about EVE as though it was the only game with Internet space ships. It is not.

Edit: Check my kill board. I am not a high sec ganker. I just think it is silly that people fly bling ships in the starting corp and area and make huge amounts of ISK.
Risk minimal and reward is high.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.