EVE General Discussion

Because if one of them is a webber it doesn't take nearly as long as just flying the freighter there normally. I know I keep harping "use a webbing alt!" but they're just so useful to hauling that it's stupid. Not only do they prevent you from getting ganked(and at the Dangeresque point: Hyenas can web out to 40km with meta webs, a Cruor can do 20km. Regional gates aren't a huge issue, in that case), but they significantly decrease the time it takes you to get to warp. Adding on a warp speed implant to increase your speed a bit and it doesn't take that much time; I can do 20ish jumps in an hour, and that's with scouting and preprep work. If I just wanted to go for speed and just yolo the freighter through I could probably do it a bit faster. As well there's the suggestion to move your operation a bit closer; rather than make 20 jump trips every time I wanted to haul something, I've moved back out to the Forge for my industrial work, allowing me easy access to Jita and relatively close access to Amarr and Dodixie, and the Forge has enough highsec systems that I can generally find somewhere that's cheap to manufacture something, or do research, or whatnot. And I don't really have to make 20+ jump trips every day.

If you're doing courier contracts sure, it might be a bit more difficult... however I'd bring up the point that if you can't find time to play the way you want to, perhaps you should play a different way? I didn't start out wanting to be an industrialist; however it's a great playstyle for someone that doesn't have too much time to play (Initially I'd wanted to actually set up a daily freight run between trade hubs and make ISK that way but then I realized how time consuming it'd be to do it right, and how stupid it'd be to do it wrong). I'm generally only periodically updating market orders (and also proximity to Jita again means that I can actually do that remotely now) and most of my money making activities can actually be done when I'm offline and then dumped on market later when I have the opportunity.

Especially if they have a GCC,

Ah but we're forgetting that gankers have infinite resources and their time is worth nothing. Also they have special powers like fitting unlimited replacement ships into SMAs

Oh, that would be roughly all of them, at least if they engage in jollyjabbing.

Probably, but there's no need to be smarter than that to figure out that, yes, GCC + T2 fit = very profitable kill.

That's why makes ganking them so profitable: no risk of counter-gank due to S-timers from the loot.

LOL! Sarcasm - "the use of irony to mock or convey contempt."

1) "Please point out any way in which mining has punitive mechanical effects." - punitive mechanical effects - WTF? Well, my Hulk's Knurled Piston rubs against the Differential Cones causing excessive wear on my Planetary Gears.

2) "... those you listed and cried about, have zero mechanical consequences for doing them."

a) "... cried about..." - See definition of Sarcasm. Also, taking a minute to bathe in your tears here....
b) "... mechanical consequences..." - None. I'm Gallente, I don't use drones.

3) "... shut it, carebear, and play the game already." - Hmm.. let's see, EVE General Discussions thread. Shouldn't you have just said, "Only my opinion matters. Yours doesn't. You're not allowed to post here because your opinion doesn't agree with mine." ?

Well, off to play the game... :-)

Why should that be the logical conclusion? (that freighters should travel in groups or risked being ganked) The problem with this outcome is that it literally makes no sense in the context of space that empire kills happen. Would it make any sense for an area that is controlled by powerful factions such as concord and and the empires to allow the same criminal acts to happen by the same people ad infinitum?

Now before you start in on me about arguments regarding realism having no place in a gaming context, essentially that's what gankers are advocating for here: "You have to travel in packs, you have to fit right, you have to carry the right things in the right quantity." All of that is arguing for "realism". So either we can both proffer the same types of arguments or neither of us can without this being a completely pointless conversation.

The problem as I see it is that while ganking in hi sec does have consequences, they don't fit the crime. Note, that I'm not advocating for 100% safety in hi-sec, I'm not advocating for removal of ganking. What I'm merely saying is that all things being equal, the fact that its possible to make a daily career out of being a ganker no matter how un-favorable or favorable the game's mechanics makes it, doesn't seem right in the context of space we are talking about.

I think a possible measure to add would be for either concord/faction police to have longer "memories" or for concord to start following known criminals around in small numbers no matter where they go in protected space.

The second problem I have with your premise is that transporting in Eve already isn't "fun". (I'm not sure who would make the argument that moving anything around in a freighter is fun, but I'm sure someone is going to try anyway) So again if "realism" should have no part of an internet spaceship game, then why shouldn't fun enter the equation? (Unless we also need to look up what the point/definition of a "game" is). Anyway, does it make any sense that the game mechanics should necessitate group play to do some of the most basic and tedious tasks that should all rights be confined to a single player/character? Because based off your reasoning, needing an escort just to move things around in space is going to make the game pretty boring for more people than it should, and if that's the case, then what is the point of it? This is especially true since the whole point of an escort is to AVOID fights.

Edited: Typos

This is yet another case of high sec begging for a change that has backfired. It is still possible to pull off just quite as easily.

They are under attack from a fleet, why wouldn't it die?

It's not a question of being easy...it's a question of having an effective enough criminal justice system to deter repeated illegal ganking of empty freighters. The solution isn't alts, webbing, escorts, etc.... the solution is for meaningful punishments for repeat offenders, so that they need to be much more discriminating about when they commit crimes...and no more of the absurd gankfests in Uedama.

I agree; players in the law-abiding category should get together in groups and enforce justice against EVE's criminal element.

Being a real player instead of a carebear.