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Social Corps

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Indahmawar Fazmarai
#141 - 2015-01-31 10:32:42 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Kaelynne Rose wrote:
U dont think most highsec corps without POSes, players will just leave them for Lite Corps with WARDEC IMMUNITY? ?

I know the question wasn't directed at me, but...

Right now there are 4 principal benefits to player corporations:

1. No CONCORD tax.
2. POSes.
3. Hangars/wallet/organizational tools.
4. Being able to declare wars (double-edged sword).

There's also the ability to join alliances and set standings, but that's not necessarily a direct benefit.

If they extend even one benefit from the first three to these "lite" corps, they will screw up the balance so much that this might indeed be the case. This is why this idea is very dangerous, ominous even.


and pretty much none of those things are a reason for players to join another player's high sec corp.

just make a 1 man alt corp you can fold if wardecced for all the organisational goodness.

high sec in eve, simply doesn't encourage social interaction. in fact, the very design of high sec encourages players to shun it.


Well, i disagree. What it discourages is to use the current socialization tools, which are aimed at shipsploding rather than PvE.

I am a die hard carebear, and yet I spend most of my time in a fleet. That along with a language channel and TGFB's chat channel allows me to socialize every day.

And yet every single person I speak to, does not belong to my one-man corporation, and most of them owe one-man corporations for the very simple reason that they would get all risk and no reward for assembling into a corporation. Much as they get all penalties and no rewards for being in NPC corporations.

Building your one-man corp is a nobrainer, a completely choiceless option. The whole multiplayer corporations system is retadded from the POV of a PvEr: It punishes everything a PvEr would do and forces him to risk to everything he does not do...

And this is all CCP's doing. It's pure GIGO: we get garbage mechanics, we produce garbage gameplay.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#142 - 2015-01-31 11:29:33 UTC
Nothing a 75% CONCORD tax couldn't fix.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#143 - 2015-01-31 12:21:44 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Then CCP really screwed up, because having game mechanics present that when removed would account for a good three quarters of the game's player base disappearing into the ether is pretty bad game design.
Most games have mechanics that if removed would lose most of the playerbase. Like for example if you removed guns from most FPS games, they'd probably lose appeal.
That's a rather absurd comparison. If you remove guns from an fps game, the game will literally become nonfunctional. Meanwhile, removing, say, NPC corporations from EVE Online would not affect the game's functionality at all.
The game would still exist, people could still play out rounds, people would simply die only though falling, and round like CTF would be done by grabbing the flag and running. The point still remains that a mechanic which if removed would remove a large chunk of the playerbase is not bad design.

If you need it though, a better example is Minecraft. Minecraft has creative mode (no risk, infinite resources with no collection required) and survival (risk of death, finite resources which need to be collected). If they removed creative a good chunk of appeal would be lost and whole communities would stop playing as they have no interest in the survival aspect., while the game itself would still be functional That doesn't mean that creative mode is bad game design.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#144 - 2015-01-31 13:15:36 UTC
You're talking about various games' core features/concepts there. NPC corporations in EVE aren't a core feature/concept. They're just a game mechanic, and an obscure one at that. If we're going to make a parallel to removing guns from fps games or creative mode from Minecraft, a good EVE example would be the ability to control ships, or maybe the player-driven market. People buy fps games to shoot, people buy Minecraft to play around with creation tools (indeed, most aren't even aware of the survival mode before purchase), people don't buy EVE to be a member of Emperor Family Academy or The Scope or whatever.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Shailagh
6Six6Six6Six
#145 - 2015-01-31 19:04:15 UTC
And we is the place WE THE PEOPLE get to say no this is bad and give feedback? Csm and ccp just gets to decide We all need corplites?

I read some dev post about ccp giving us the sand for OUR sandbox.

Its a fact and obvious WE dont want this in OUR sandbox
Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#146 - 2015-01-31 19:08:48 UTC
Shailagh wrote:
And we is the place WE THE PEOPLE get to say no this is bad and give feedback? Csm and ccp just gets to decide We all need corplites?

I read some dev post about ccp giving us the sand for OUR sandbox.

Its a fact and obvious WE dont want this in OUR sandbox


Well, other than a vague mention in the CSM minutes, there's been no actual talk of this from CCP themselves. As a few CSM members have posted in this thread, I'd say this is as good a place as any to give feedback on the idea.
Miomeifeng Alduin
Lithonauts Inc.
#147 - 2015-01-31 19:41:46 UTC
Shailagh wrote:
And we is the place WE THE PEOPLE get to say no this is bad and give feedback? Csm and ccp just gets to decide We all need corplites?

I read some dev post about ccp giving us the sand for OUR sandbox.

Its a fact and obvious WE dont want this in OUR sandbox


Good thing YOU dont talk for EVERYONE :p

I only see YOU and a couple of others yelling that it's the end of eve if they would make social corps.
flakeys
Doomheim
#148 - 2015-01-31 20:11:39 UTC
Kaelynne Rose wrote:
I dont see no thread on Social Corps that are coming soon. Gonnna be like an offical "friends list" where errybody can chat and share catpics and talk about ratting and mining and the weather, but not be in real corp so there is no fear of theft/grief.

Basically like a chat channel but with social media-esqe features.

Youra thoughts on this?

Mine are LMAO at this themepark careabear garbage. Brb lemme tweet that to my fellow Social Corpie Buddies.

Anyone wanna join my socual corp? Gonna be called...EVE IS NOT HARSH, IS IS FOR PANSYS



Ít's a ******* chat channel . The fact you found the need to make a boohoorage thread about this speaks volumes about what a tough boy you are .

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Kaelynne Rose
WTB Somalians
#149 - 2015-02-01 00:21:52 UTC
flakeys wrote:
Kaelynne Rose wrote:
I dont see no thread on Social Corps that are coming soon. Gonnna be like an offical "friends list" where errybody can chat and share catpics and talk about ratting and mining and the weather, but not be in real corp so there is no fear of theft/grief.

Basically like a chat channel but with social media-esqe features.

Youra thoughts on this?

Mine are LMAO at this themepark careabear garbage. Brb lemme tweet that to my fellow Social Corpie Buddies.

Anyone wanna join my socual corp? Gonna be called...EVE IS NOT HARSH, IS IS FOR PANSYS



Ít's a ******* chat channel . The fact you found the need to make a boohoorage thread about this speaks volumes about what a tough boy you are .



Boii you about to get wardecced. Then what u gonna do tomorrow? Drop to npc corp and use chatchannel?

Serioualy tho u bout 2 get decced sp appoligize
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#150 - 2015-02-01 00:28:52 UTC
... applauds CCP for making more changes that are no doubt aimed at enriching the "New Player Experience"... because ultimately they are enriching the wallet of this player. P

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#151 - 2015-02-01 04:06:19 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
You're talking about various games' core features/concepts there. NPC corporations in EVE aren't a core feature/concept. They're just a game mechanic, and an obscure one at that. If we're going to make a parallel to removing guns from fps games or creative mode from Minecraft, a good EVE example would be the ability to control ships, or maybe the player-driven market. People buy fps games to shoot, people buy Minecraft to play around with creation tools (indeed, most aren't even aware of the survival mode before purchase), people don't buy EVE to be a member of Emperor Family Academy or The Scope or whatever.
It's still a core mechanic that has been there from the beginning. Whatever way you try to spin it, claiming that a mechanic is badly designed because it's removal from the game would cause people to quit is absolutely wrong. You're grasping.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#152 - 2015-02-01 04:08:27 UTC
Shailagh wrote:
And we is the place WE THE PEOPLE get to say no this is bad and give feedback? Csm and ccp just gets to decide We all need corplites?

I read some dev post about ccp giving us the sand for OUR sandbox.

Its a fact and obvious WE dont want this in OUR sandbox
No, YOU don't want this in OUR sandbox. Many of us do, and many also don't care one way or the other.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#153 - 2015-02-01 05:44:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Lucas Kell wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
You're talking about various games' core features/concepts there. NPC corporations in EVE aren't a core feature/concept. They're just a game mechanic, and an obscure one at that. If we're going to make a parallel to removing guns from fps games or creative mode from Minecraft, a good EVE example would be the ability to control ships, or maybe the player-driven market. People buy fps games to shoot, people buy Minecraft to play around with creation tools (indeed, most aren't even aware of the survival mode before purchase), people don't buy EVE to be a member of Emperor Family Academy or The Scope or whatever.
It's still a core mechanic that has been there from the beginning. Whatever way you try to spin it, claiming that a mechanic is badly designed because it's removal from the game would cause people to quit is absolutely wrong. You're grasping.

Mechanic != core mechanic. Awoxing has been in the game since the beginning too. It seems to me that you're defining "core" by whether or not it's been around for a long time, and by the amount of players that had some sort of interaction with the mechanic in question, instead of how big of an impact the mechanic has on the entire game. I'd argue that the impact of NPC corporations isn't big at all. In fact, I'd wager that the grand majority of players aren't even aware of their existence before they enter the game, as opposed to say, mining, or fighting for territory.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
#154 - 2015-02-01 06:07:58 UTC
Tear Jar wrote:
I know every possible use for bookmarks and shared hangars


No, you don't.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#155 - 2015-02-01 12:23:19 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Mechanic != core mechanic. Awoxing has been in the game since the beginning too. It seems to me that you're defining "core" by whether or not it's been around for a long time, and by the amount of players that had some sort of interaction with the mechanic in question, instead of how big of an impact the mechanic has on the entire game. I'd argue that the impact of NPC corporations isn't big at all. In fact, I'd wager that the grand majority of players aren't even aware of their existence before they enter the game, as opposed to say, mining, or fighting for territory.

No I'm defining it on a lot of things. It's been there for a long time and it's used by a lot of players yes, but it's also key to allowing new players breathing room from wars as well as a fall back for players who lose everything, it adds a social aspect to the game without having to be under a particular player's leadership. You don't think it's a core mechanic because you don't like it, and your basing whether it's good design ore not on whether or not people will quit if it's removed, which is irrelevant to game design. Many mechanics, core or not, in many game would cause players to leave if removed. Removing ganking and bumping would cause many players to quit, so is that also a badly designed mechanic? Removing wardecs would too, badly designed mechanic?

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#156 - 2015-02-01 12:40:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Ganking and wars are core features of the game. Violence and competition for resources is highlighted in all of the game's literature. In fact, people entering the game for the first time might get disenchanted that the violence they were promised isn't actually being delivered. Bumping isn't a core feature, isn't something that's advertised as one, and I doubt anyone would leave if it was removed. In the same way, NPC corporations aren't a core feature, and aren't advertised. In fact, I'd wager that if NPC corporations were removed, all new players who join the game would actually be more accepting of EVE's violence, because the safety blanket they'd otherwise develop an entitlement to at such early ages would no longer be present.

Of course, we're also talking about a gamer generation that posts massive whine threads about "KOS" in the forums of survival games that offer both pvp and pve servers, so maybe I'm wrong here.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#157 - 2015-02-01 12:49:15 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

Of course, we're also talking about a gamer generation that posts massive whine threads about "KOS" in the forums of survival games that offer both pvp and pve servers, so maybe I'm wrong here.


It's so much worse on DayZ.

"why did that guy make me drink bleach?"

Because it was funny. Are you not aware of how this game works?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#158 - 2015-02-01 13:14:28 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Ganking and wars are core features of the game. Violence and competition for resources is highlighted in all of the game's literature. In fact, people entering the game for the first time might get disenchanted that the violence they were promised isn't actually being delivered. Bumping isn't a core feature, isn't something that's advertised as one, and I doubt anyone would leave if it was removed. In the same way, NPC corporations aren't a core feature, and aren't advertised. In fact, I'd wager that if NPC corporations were removed, all new players who join the game would actually be more accepting of EVE's violence, because the safety blanket they'd otherwise develop an entitlement to at such early ages would no longer be present.

Of course, we're also talking about a gamer generation that posts massive whine threads about "KOS" in the forums of survival games that offer both pvp and pve servers, so maybe I'm wrong here.
I disagree. I can agree that war decs are a core feature, but ganking is emergent, so not really a feature at all more a byproduct of other features. And I'm sure we'd never hear the end of it if it were even suggested that bumping were removed (in fact, we've not yet heard the end of it). At the end of the day you can sit there and twist definitions all you want to try to fit your argument, but NPC corps are in the game, I doubt they're going anywhere, and if they do they'll be replaced seamlessly by another feature offering the same benefits - such as social corps. They serve a purpose and they serve it well. Just because some people get upset that some people who would stand no change in PvP don't readily avail themselves as targets, doesn't mean CCP designed it wrong.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Kaelynne Rose
WTB Somalians
#159 - 2015-02-01 15:18:12 UTC
If you want to be in a corp with multiple chat channels and avoid wars and just pve in safety. Go join a nullbear blueball alliance.
You wanna stay in highsec? Get ready for war.

Simple.
Miomeifeng Alduin
Lithonauts Inc.
#160 - 2015-02-01 15:36:53 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Ganking and wars are core features of the game. Violence and competition for resources is highlighted in all of the game's literature. In fact, people entering the game for the first time might get disenchanted that the violence they were promised isn't actually being delivered. Bumping isn't a core feature, isn't something that's advertised as one, and I doubt anyone would leave if it was removed. In the same way, NPC corporations aren't a core feature, and aren't advertised. In fact, I'd wager that if NPC corporations were removed, all new players who join the game would actually be more accepting of EVE's violence, because the safety blanket they'd otherwise develop an entitlement to at such early ages would no longer be present.

Of course, we're also talking about a gamer generation that posts massive whine threads about "KOS" in the forums of survival games that offer both pvp and pve servers, so maybe I'm wrong here.


So what would you suggest that new players start in? a npc corp which is constantly under war and the starting system (ok, the surrounding systems) camped by tengu's and all? That'd be fun and would definately not drive people away ...