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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Getting people out of NPC corporations

First post
Author
Dradis Aulmais
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2015-01-29 20:45:26 UTC
Grrr Cant get people out of NPC Corp Grr

Dradis Aulmais, Federal Attorney Number 54896

Free The Scope Three

FoxFire Ayderan
#22 - 2015-01-29 20:57:51 UTC



Maybe. But then they'd have to address some of the reasons players choose to stay in them.

The War Dec mechanic is my biggest problem. I used to be in EVE University which I loved (they are a great community), but they are constantly under War Dec now, and it gets tiresome having to look over your shoulder every instance you're undocked. It's bad enough keeping an eye out for being ganked.

The E-Uni enjoys having the occasional War Dec. It's good training. But to rarely if ever have a let up from it, kinda sucks. Yet they have (somewhat) deep pockets (which would be much deeper if they raised the taxes above 0.1% ), so they ought to be able to buy some protection from War Decs for a period of time. If that were the case I'd still be there. It was more enjoyable when you had War Dec time and the rules which go along with that, and peaceful times and the less restrictive rules for that. Now that it's constant War Decs they had to eliminate those more restrictive rules (which are good training for being War Decced) because otherwise corp members would be continually under them.




Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#23 - 2015-01-29 20:58:25 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Amendment: If I think about it, let's apply some force, shall we? But in the correct area: Whoever engages in an illegal activity, get's booted from the NPC corp they are in. While NPC corps are indeed after our money, they do not want to be connected with illegal activities against their other customers. This should force some people out of NPC corps who have no business there to begin with. Blink

This makes sense.
Lady Rift wrote:
Why do you think 1 man corps are good for the game?
How do you think one man corps can be solved?



I don't have a way nor do i think they are a real problem currently. But this would force more people to create them.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#24 - 2015-01-29 21:31:14 UTC
If you actually want to discourage long term NPC corp membership you'd be better off adding incentives for players to be and remain in corporations.

If you want to add penalties to NPC corps it's not reasonable to be that heavy handed. Making the tax slightly larger and increasing its applicability would be a more palatable approach, time limiting membership of starter corps and having penalties not apply to those corps is also something you might want to consider.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2015-01-29 22:49:31 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
Eve players: Furiously defending the 'sandbox' whilst yelling that everyone else is playing in it wrong since 2003.
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#26 - 2015-01-29 23:31:23 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Maybe the carrot approach with social corporations is not the best idea?

How about something that should make people scream and gnash their teeth at first but should settle down with time?

In order to fly Tech 2 & 3 ships, pirate, faction and capital ships you need to be in a private corporation.
If you quit a private corporation and go back to an NPC one, you have 24 hours to move your ships before your license to fly them is revoked.

This means the new players are free to stay there in T1 ships safely while there is a foot pushing veterans out the door.




Eve is a sandbox...if I choose to stay in a NPC corp its none of your business.


ashley Eoner
#27 - 2015-01-29 23:39:02 UTC
Syn Shi wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Maybe the carrot approach with social corporations is not the best idea?

How about something that should make people scream and gnash their teeth at first but should settle down with time?

In order to fly Tech 2 & 3 ships, pirate, faction and capital ships you need to be in a private corporation.
If you quit a private corporation and go back to an NPC one, you have 24 hours to move your ships before your license to fly them is revoked.

This means the new players are free to stay there in T1 ships safely while there is a foot pushing veterans out the door.




Eve is a sandbox...if I choose to stay in a NPC corp its none of your business.



Like afkalt said... it's only a sandbox as long as you're doing what I want you to do :P
Iain Cariaba
#28 - 2015-01-29 23:42:25 UTC
FoxFire Ayderan wrote:



Maybe. But then they'd have to address some of the reasons players choose to stay in them.

The War Dec mechanic is my biggest problem. I used to be in EVE University which I loved (they are a great community), but they are constantly under War Dec now, and it gets tiresome having to look over your shoulder every instance you're undocked. It's bad enough keeping an eye out for being ganked.

The E-Uni enjoys having the occasional War Dec. It's good training. But to rarely if ever have a let up from it, kinda sucks. Yet they have (somewhat) deep pockets (which would be much deeper if they raised the taxes above 0.1% ), so they ought to be able to buy some protection from War Decs for a period of time. If that were the case I'd still be there. It was more enjoyable when you had War Dec time and the rules which go along with that, and peaceful times and the less restrictive rules for that. Now that it's constant War Decs they had to eliminate those more restrictive rules (which are good training for being War Decced) because otherwise corp members would be continually under them.

Your whole idea of being able to counter-bribe Concord is simply bad. I'm willing to bet I make more isk with two of my alts than a lot of highsec mining corps do, so tell me what would keep me from outbidding them for Concord to ignore me shooting them. Your idea is nothing more than he who has the biggest wallet wins.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#29 - 2015-01-30 00:13:05 UTC
I've been against NPC corps for years, and I have campaigned for them to have higher tax rates for any player older than 60 days, etc.

But this is a terrible idea that handcuffs player freedom.

And I'm beginning to think (well, I've thought this for a while actually), that the OP is utterly incapable of having a non-godawful idea.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#30 - 2015-01-30 01:30:37 UTC
FoxFire Ayderan wrote:
Anhenka wrote:


How about we NOT encourage people to willfully stay in NPC corps, alright?



With people actively choosing their NPC corps they wouldn't remain strictly NPC corps because you'd wind up having more people with similar interests and play styles in various NPC corps. Which would foster a sense of community in those NPC corps.

Maybe if they then want the additional perks of a player run corp they decided to start one.



I can tell you've never been in CAS.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#31 - 2015-01-30 03:31:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Donnachadh
Like others here I wonder why you think these players should be forced out of an NPC anyway?


You cannot use force to get a group of players to do anything they do not want to do, it simply will not work when they can simply choose to spend their gaming dollars somewhere else. Hint this would be bad for ALL of us. In short the game as a whole is better off with these NPC players than it would be without them.

Even raising taxes on the NPC or expanding the things that are taxable is a bad idea. What is needed are ideas that would encourage / entice people to leave the NPC in favor of being in a player corp.
War decs are one of the first things that need a serious look and yet they are at the top of the list of things people will fight to protect. In my discussion with players in NPC and trying to get them to come into a player corp war decs are the single largest thing holding people back. The last war dec the corp this character is in went through cost me 8 players that had been in the game less than 6 months. Yes they are still in the game, yes they are still active and yes I speak with them almost daily but they are now and will remain forever in an NPC.

This topic is about only allowing certain ships to be flown by those in a player corp, and while that specific idea is bad the general idea behind it is sound. The problem is what can we offer only to those in a player corp?
POS or POC are out because of operating costs.
Anyone got any ideas?
Ronny Hugo
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#32 - 2015-01-30 03:56:39 UTC
Kicking you from corp in your vacation so when you come back you can't fly t3's anymore. Would be priceless.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#33 - 2015-01-30 05:59:34 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Maybe the carrot approach with social corporations is not the best idea?



Because?

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2015-01-30 06:08:51 UTC
There is a carrot . . . it is called the tax rate.

There is a stick to convince folks not to leave npc corps, it is called wardecs.

Forcing players to play in the road so you can run them over is not an idea I support. I was about to add that forcing players to leave their own play styles behind is also bad but I realized that I have done that (I support the end of intercorp aggression mechanics aka awoxing)

Quote:
Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes.

Walt Whitman


I want to encourage the social actions of the players, encourage the growth of communication and groupings. But not this way.

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2015-01-30 06:46:13 UTC
Mag's wrote:
I do not agree with forcing players out of NPC corps in this way. It's a players choice and style and there is already a tax punishment for remaining in there.

No matter how you word it or what restrictions you suggest, I believe them to be bad for the game. This is just more of that toxic approach from you, I mentioned before.

I thought we agreed on that speed reduction thing?

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Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2015-01-30 07:30:00 UTC
Trust is #1 biggest factor in EVE.

Both AWOX and NPC corp are causing big crying scenes over who is right.

1 is fixing the issue, not preventing AWOX whilst making it harder for the AWOX.

Second isn't really changing anything, cause NPC corp are not really doing anything to the game like CODE wanking permit protection.

Aside from that, as someone said you haven't been to CAS which goes back to trust. If you participated in a CAS Combat Day (CCD) which is basically a roaming fleet they hold every couple months they actually just wander out in null and blow crap up (they just had one a few days ago). Which is about trust, cause most people bring the bare minimum and not a gank target while some others supply the ships to newbie pilots.

tl;dr ; most people don't trust, AWOX like to exploit that, currently whine is AWOXers whining it will be harder to exploit trust over sudden invites Roll but you can still fire with CONCORD showing up if that change goes live, NPC corps don't really care about trust as they bring what they want to lose to a fight, and for an NPC individual its just a loose collection of individuals with a chat channel < --- > like an alliance in null with an intel channel.

On the flip side, nothing stops you from pulling the trigger on an individual in an NPC corp, while in highsec, so you can destroy their ship, cause Wardecs are not required, you just need bigger balls. You don't really need more corps, they don't provide or offer what an NPC corp individual has aside from 11% tax and this imaginary fear that causes a lot of people not in an NPC corp that CONCORD is too powerful thus a higher tax is needed to get them out to attack them with wardec fee, which isn't needed BTW Roll. Maybe if more individuals tried to be social instead of playing Counter Strike, you wouldn't have a problem you helped create in the first place Roll
Anthar Thebess
#37 - 2015-01-30 08:11:23 UTC
Solution is very easy.
We already have new "do not avox in higsec" tag that is able to be turned on in higsec.

What we need ( and we don't need this or the avox flag) is next one. No wardec possible , but at the same enabling this flag put on your corp the same NPC tax and rules you have in NPC corporation.

Now why?
Because players moving out of the NPC corporations means actually more player to player interactions. Making new friends, and new enemies.

But wait , i will create this kind of corp and put some towers up, and they will be safe!

Like i stated , the same rules and the same tax like in NPC corp.
So this corp cannot have Towers in :
- higsec
- lowsec
etc
and all the goodies that are offered by a normal corporation.
Belynius
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#38 - 2015-01-30 08:21:54 UTC
I'm not a fan of reducing player choice. This would also have negative repercussions on players, who for whatever reason, be it alliance sabotage, getting kicked from corp due to inactivity, would be unable to fly their ships. This would also simply increase the number of one man corps, as well as potentially trap some players in sov null.

Also, not all t2/faction ships remain the same. A stealth bomber is a far cry from a hulk or tengu.

It is up to us as the player base to ensure new players get a positive outlook on corporation life.
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#39 - 2015-01-30 11:04:19 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Maybe the carrot approach with social corporations is not the best idea?

How about something that should make people scream and gnash their teeth at first but should settle down with time?

In order to fly Tech 2 & 3 ships, pirate, faction and capital ships you need to be in a private corporation.
If you quit a private corporation and go back to an NPC one, you have 24 hours to move your ships before your license to fly them is revoked.

This means the new players are free to stay there in T1 ships safely while there is a foot pushing veterans out the door.


Well really npc corps only provide any measurable protection to people in highsec (as obviously flying anywhere else makes you a target) so while I agree we should be incentivising leaving npc corps I think a 25% tax rate and a reduction overall of highsec territory would do more.

People like to claim they play casually and this is why they need this and that bla bla I play like 4 hours a week tops and lived in lowsec for 4 years so I don't buy that crap. The issue isn't casual play it's just mewling from people who want no risk at all.

I say to them what can their money buy? Faster mission running? My money buys experiences including being the prey for an 8-man pirate gang. I visualise myself as a survivor and these other casual players as fat juicy pigs in their pig sty and I laugh at their complaints when the Butcher comes to town.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#40 - 2015-01-30 16:43:07 UTC
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
Mag's wrote:
I do not agree with forcing players out of NPC corps in this way. It's a players choice and style and there is already a tax punishment for remaining in there.

No matter how you word it or what restrictions you suggest, I believe them to be bad for the game. This is just more of that toxic approach from you, I mentioned before.

I thought we agreed on that speed reduction thing?
*cough* Straight
Why yes, of course I agree. Plus the extra tax, EHP reduction and we should also include the Pink Thorax with the purple veins.
I'd like to fit the 'He looked at me funny' module on that Thorax, if that's OK?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.