EVE General Discussion

Because a social corporation option combined with the triviality of avoiding wars is essentially a war-immune corporation with a tax of having to remake it every two days. The only literal drawback is the inability to maintain a POS.

People already do this or stay in NPC corps anyway. All this does is mean that ad-hoc groups of players from various corps who get together to do things as a group will be able to do so with more tools to help them and better ways of advertising it to others. It won't make people any more or less safe.

Yes, and in that manner, I agree, it is a benefit for gankers. But it actually doesn't make a huge amount of practical difference. Besides, the tags thing was also made as an incentive for people to go into low-sec more. I suppose they could have moved level 4 missions there instead, or something.


I wish I wasn't either, but over the past 6-7 years, CCP has veritably demonstrated that this principle is very much applicable. Exploit fixes aside, we've had something along the lines of half a dozen CONCORD buffs alone. War costs were upped and scale with the member count of the defending corporation, war allies were implemented, can flipping now results in you being flagged to the whole universe as opposed to just the can's owning corporation, criminal aggression received front-loaded penalties, kill right activation results in a suspect flag instead of a limited engagement, awoxing is about to be removed, etc etc.

Can you, on the other hand, name some buffs that the "sociopath griefer" play style has received over the years, tags aside? I mean, I can name exactly one: corporations are no longer restricted to only having 3 outgoing wars. That's it.

People who don't want war decs are *already* in NPC corps. This will not change that.

NPSI is now part of eve. We are not going anywhere even without anychanges. Most of us are in PVP corps, otherwise why would we want to PVP? NPC corps are crap to PVP from.

Right now just forming fleets and everything is just that little bit harder than it needs to be. We use external tools as it is to get around the issues. But it would be great if we didn't need to.

I am very much behind NPC corps are too safe. But i just don't see that changing anytime soon.

Aside from the tag thing, the only other one that comes to mind is the big damage buff that destroyers got. Not that it was specifically for that play-style, but it certainly helped. Reduction in the base tank of freighters was another, yes people can add tank with low-slots now, but they have to sacrifice space to do so. The net is a buff to ganking, as you now have the same tank you did before, but with more trips (more opportunities to be ganked) or you run the same number of trips with less tank (easier to gank).

I'm not saying those couple things should change, just pointing out that they did buff the style.

Is this a damn joke

I don't think those are slippery slope problems though so much as just issues that have been fought but lost against. Some of them I agree with though. I'm not in the mindset of rejecting changes that positively affect interaction while providing no more safety all because at some point down the line someone might ask for more safety.

There's some, sure:
- Freighter changes mean that players have to choose between speed, tank or cargo. It's impossible to get all 3 as high as they used to be.
- Improvements to catalysts make them a viable and cheap ganking choice for even young players.
- Removal of clone grades mean you can use higher SP pilots and not worry if your pod will be at risk as they won't cost millions to buy a new clone.
- Changes to logoff mechanics now mean a bumper can continue to bump a player once they logoff. More recent changes mean you can't force your character to disappear by logging onto another on the same account either.
- Fleet hangers can now be scanned and drop loot, which is one of the big ones. Orcas used to be great as you could fill them up knowing that players wouldn't be able to collect the loot.

There have also been plenty of changes that either passively benefitted the playstyle or simple negatively affected opposing playstyles. I think it's easier to remember the changes that make things harder than it is to remember the things that benefit you, but there certainly have been changes on both sides.

ever Visited the BNI Alliance Chat ? or the GE Local socializing with the Hostiles right after the "gf" is send ?

I think Neo had some good points there, well said sir.


It doesn't appear to me that you've been pushed that far, as much as you're, logically, afraid of being pushed that far (the slippery-slope argument). In every other main-stream MMO, the ganking/griefing play style is either impossible or ban-able. Since CCP currently allows many things in the sandbox that others don't, I can understand there being a great deal of fear that it could be taken away.

Please note, I'm only speaking to the ganking/griefing style because to me PVP is different. I don't consider killing something that has no chance of killing you to be PVP. When we catch a Helios in null, that isn't really PVP either (to me), but at least that Helios has a chance to cloak and try to get out of the bubble. [:D]

In regards to this change though, we agree that more social interaction is good, and may get people out of the NPC corp and working with a group. The truth for me was, once I worked with one group, I was more prepared to work with others. I honestly believe this could get more people in to player corps, as they will get weaned off of NPC-solo-play, and be working with others. Yes, some will form their NPC-solo corps, just to have their name (my hauler alt for one), but there will be a group of people that end up using this as an intermediate step. The thing no one knows is, will that intermediate step keep them around. The only way to know that is to try, and (just like "teams") if it doesn't work they can get rid of it.

I think awoxing will have very little impact on non-consensual PvP to be quite honest. It's a tiny fractional part of it, and it's very much a one and done kind of assault on a group. Few corps allow you to stay to kill more players once the first one drops so you're off looking for the next corp to attack. The dedicated awoxers will move onto the more complex ways to awox and the rest will move into other forms of non-consensual PvP. Again, I trust CCP to be making an educated decision with putting in this change.

To be quite honest though, as much as I love non-consensual PvP, I'd be happy for more changes to move people into consensual PvP. Ganking a miner a few times is entertaining and it's usually profitable enough, but it's so one dimensional because the other players doesn't want to be there, so they are not really reacting. It's like playing basketball against a bunch of chess geeks. Sure, you'll win, but will it really stay fun for long? I'd like more mechanics to steer people to want to defend themselves, generating more consensual PvP which can be varied and far more entertaining.