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CSM Minutes - CCP dont you screw up the chimera

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Dominique Vasilkovsky
#21 - 2015-01-28 08:59:35 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
As promised with CCP Mankiller's dev blog from December, Team TriLambda is revisiting every ship to improve the look. This work is also ongoing.

The art team knows we have farther to go to nail the looks of many ships in the game, and there are strong voices speaking for the players on this. Fixes won't be immediate but they are coming.

Good, can't wait to have the Sleipnir back in the Cyclone hull. It is just looking rubbish and wrong in the Hurricane hull.
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#22 - 2015-01-28 11:12:12 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Darwin
Dominique Vasilkovsky wrote:
Good, can't wait to have the Sleipnir back in the Cyclone hull. It is just looking rubbish and wrong in the Hurricane hull.


Sorry, but this won't be changing back. I liked the version based on the Cyclone hull too, but the idea is that ships with the same hull have similar weapon bonuses.

Edit: This change was made specifically as part of the command ship rebalance and is not necessarily a general principle! More information about the thinking that went into it was from the feedback thread here:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3124398#post3124398

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins
Sir Substance
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2015-01-28 13:17:35 UTC
SiKong Ma wrote:

I like what you did to Scorpion hull, Maller hull, Apoc hull, Moa hull and the latest Exequror hull. For the Blackbird, in normal mode is ok looking but when in warp, please find a way to not animate the hull to have a pair of eye brows.


Literally the first thing I noticed on going into warp, for some reason massive eybrows give it an upper-class british accent in my head.

"By jove, just look at how fast I'm going! I'm not sure I approve of such reckless speed."

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Valterra Craven
#24 - 2015-01-28 16:04:13 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:


If you're referring to the Blackbird/Falcon/Rook being off-center in the camera, the new design revealed a specific issue with our old algorithm for calculating bounding spheres. A fix is in work.

As promised with CCP Mankiller's dev blog from December, Team TriLambda is revisiting every ship to improve the look. This work is also ongoing.

The art team knows we have farther to go to nail the looks of many ships in the game, and there are strong voices speaking for the players on this. Fixes won't be immediate but they are coming.


Personally I don't think the reason the Blackbird looks worse than before has anything to do with being off-center. The new design is terrible. It looks bad from any angle you look at it. I really wish you guys would release several ideas of what a ship remodel could look like but instead you guys just ram your "art" down our throats. I can't remember the last time a major change was made to a ship model based on player feedback.
Valterra Craven
#25 - 2015-01-28 16:06:48 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Dominique Vasilkovsky wrote:
Good, can't wait to have the Sleipnir back in the Cyclone hull. It is just looking rubbish and wrong in the Hurricane hull.


Sorry, but this won't be changing back. I liked the version based on the Cyclone hull too, but the idea is that ships with the same hull have similar weapon bonuses.



Its an idea with poor execution. You guys did a few ships and don't seem to care about the rest... like why the caldari missile assault frig is not based on the kestrel model... I understand not everything can be done at once, but you guys rarely if ever consistently truly finish projects even as simple as model changes.
Kelleth Kirk
Caldari State - Osprey Wing 7
#26 - 2015-01-28 16:13:58 UTC
Hope the Vexor is up next... Would be nice with a good looking Drone Cruiser =)

I miss having ISK.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#27 - 2015-01-28 16:33:56 UTC
Heh i am just glad things are rolling in visuals.

Nid and hell need more detail surfaces around landing platforms mostly to reduce simple "tent" look.

Typhoon could have on that front side stick out part turned into landing pad repair space visually w broken drone some mech cranes few lights.

Tempest fleet issue should get its unique wings back ASAP who ever removed it should go ahead and hang him self.

Also that artwork tempest is the only tempest there should be in game new look is better than old school in game models but cant stand tall to the artwork one it is so minmatar it isn't even funny why it snit in game asset.

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Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#28 - 2015-01-28 17:41:21 UTC
I agree with the OP's sentiment. The Chimera's current look is very fitting and I hope it's not radically changed.

I primarily fly Minmatar ships and am pleased with where they are overall now so I hope that very serious consideration is given when iconic ships like the Rifter are revamped. After the great job done with the Tempest and Typhoon visual updates I'd really hate it if they did to the Rifter, Thrasher or Hurricane what they did with the poor Blackbird/Falcon/Rook.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#29 - 2015-01-28 17:52:59 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Dominique Vasilkovsky wrote:
Good, can't wait to have the Sleipnir back in the Cyclone hull. It is just looking rubbish and wrong in the Hurricane hull.


Sorry, but this won't be changing back. I liked the version based on the Cyclone hull too, but the idea is that ships with the same hull have similar weapon bonuses.


Its all a matter of taste, I personally love the new sleipnir hull :)

And regardless, it was definitely a good move to diversify hulls for command ships.

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Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#30 - 2015-01-28 19:47:33 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Arronicus wrote:
You seem to have not seen many of them. Particularly the new blackbird/falcon that looks like our graphics rendering messed up and created some distorted box, that doesn't fit in with any of the other ships in eve. Or the way they ruined the paintjobs on many, if not most pirate faction ships. Or other iconic ships that got ruined like the vagabond.


OK, first, breathe with me: [ whwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwhhhhhhhhh ]


Don't you mean psssssssssssh?

OK, seriously, the Phoenix looks great. The Chimera doesn't look bad.

The Rag should be vertical.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
Kuronaga
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
The Chicken Coop
#31 - 2015-01-28 21:35:24 UTC
For a new artists vision to be brought to fruition, an old artists vision must die.

Such is the reality for the gaming genre.

RIP Chimera, and every other old ship model.
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#32 - 2015-01-28 22:09:40 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Darwin
Valterra Craven wrote:
Its an idea with poor execution. You guys did a few ships and don't seem to care about the rest...


I'm pretty sure that particular idea came with the command ship rebalance. It wasn't part of some larger scheme.

Edit: Here's the original thread from CCP Fozzie:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3124398#post3124398

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins
Solops Crendraven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2015-01-28 22:14:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Solops Crendraven
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
When they are done with it, it'll have domes full of plants like from "Silent Running" and pools and stuff.

Just kidding.
That would be Kool even like add a simcity thing to it like build stuff on the Chimera. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TckJBvl_uT0

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unidenify
Deaf Armada
#34 - 2015-01-28 22:56:56 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Dominique Vasilkovsky wrote:
Good, can't wait to have the Sleipnir back in the Cyclone hull. It is just looking rubbish and wrong in the Hurricane hull.


Sorry, but this won't be changing back. I liked the version based on the Cyclone hull too, but the idea is that ships with the same hull have similar weapon bonuses.


so there is possible that Flycatcher will change to Corax hull from Cormorant hull?
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
#35 - 2015-01-29 00:02:41 UTC
All ships touched on design wise...looks like I will win the bet for number of correct predictions for 2015.

Here is an idea, how about new ships. Like completely new ships not based upon existing ships. Just an idea.
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#36 - 2015-01-29 15:45:35 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Darwin
Nexus Day wrote:
All ships touched on design wise...looks like I will win the bet for number of correct predictions for 2015.


I don't believe that the comment in the CSM notes should be interpreted to mean that every ship would receive a redesign in any particular timeframe. Certainly not all in 2015. (Edit: I do intend to distinguish "redesign" of a ship from the texture rework that we're undertaking to improve the look of physically-based rendering.)

Quote:
Here is an idea, how about new ships. Like completely new ships not based upon existing ships. Just an idea.


Like the Confessor and the Svipul, for example? :)

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2015-01-29 15:54:40 UTC
Personally, I like the redsigns that we've gotten. Though I have to agree witht he eyebrows on the Blackbird comment. It would have been better, or at least less jarring, to have those panels split in half lengthwise and fold back over the hull above and below the entry.

That aside, I like that the art department is continuing to up their game in terms of the design of in-game assets. The new ships, in general, all look better than the old ones (though I get that some people's opinions may differ on that). I'm really looking forward to the release of that redone Dominix (hint hint)

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Valterra Craven
#38 - 2015-01-29 16:38:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Valterra Craven
CCP Darwin wrote:
Valterra Craven wrote:
Its an idea with poor execution. You guys did a few ships and don't seem to care about the rest...


I'm pretty sure that particular idea came with the command ship rebalance. It wasn't part of some larger scheme.

Edit: Here's the original thread from CCP Fozzie:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3124398#post3124398


So what your saying is that this "idea" was merely a rationalization to get changes done on command ships without thinking about what it would mean if it was actually fleshed out.

CCP Darwin wrote:

but the idea is that ships with the same hull have similar weapon bonuses.


Again, if this is the "idea" then regardless of where it started, its still been poorly executed. All of the t2 classes should have been looked at and had this been done more inconsistencies would have been found (like the one I pointed out earlier) that should have been changed as well.

Or are you going to seriously say that the Hawk should not be based on the Kestrel model? Or that any of the other AFs with different bonuses shouldn't have their hulls changed to meet with the idea that you've espoused above? HACs have two hull models based on their bonuses so why don't AFs?

Don't get me wrong, I had no problem with the command ship changes as I thought they made sense. I just don't like it when you guys come up with a reason to change stuff but don't actually follow through on making sure that those changes are carried out everywhere it makes sense.
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#39 - 2015-01-29 16:42:05 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Dominique Vasilkovsky wrote:
Good, can't wait to have the Sleipnir back in the Cyclone hull. It is just looking rubbish and wrong in the Hurricane hull.


Sorry, but this won't be changing back. I liked the version based on the Cyclone hull too, but the idea is that ships with the same hull have similar weapon bonuses.

Tristan-hulled Ishkur confirmed! Hype intensifies!

Just kidding. Maybe.

(I wish...)

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Eojek
Starlight Moly
#40 - 2015-01-29 17:14:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Eojek
In my personal opinion, and it's just that, the level of detail on starships needs to be vastly improved. When I zoom in on a capital ship, I would, to one extreme, enjoy being able to see people walking around inside but I know this is not fiesable.

A more moderate approach would be to significantly invest more time into the larger ships's detail decals and up the level of detail on the models. Currently the titans, for their scale, are not as texturally rich per square-meter of hull as some of the smaller ships. For the ammount of time and investement in a floating city, I would expect significantly more textural and model dynamics that what currently exists.