Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Three minor issues with a big impact.

These issues are:
Bumping
Log off timer for people that don't/cant agress (freighters)
hyperdunking (CCP ruling is stupid and you should feel bad.)

First I want to make it clear I have used two of these to my own benefit. I live in null. And no not a carbear but will be labeled as such.

Bumping: A stopgap measure for game play reason. In reality the stupidest thing to exist in eve. "Oh let me take my ship go at full speed and ram into your bigger ship! Oh look I made you move. And nothing bad happened!"
In the early days I can understand... We needed something ASAP and this was the simplest thing to do.
But now, now we have the ability to make this better. I know your saying "Noooooo we loves it." or "HEATHEN!"
But think about it. Shouldn't there be a consequence for people ramming full speed into another ship? In reality the people inside would die just from the whiplash.
Let there be negative effects to ramming people!

A discussion can and should be made. No we don't need to dismiss bumping entirely. But lets cut it in half at minimal. And maybe give being that do it a timer after more then one offense within a time.



Log off timer: Really I am just still confused that I get a log off timer. A pretty long one. For being a victim. Why am I getting penalized for being attacked?
And for that matter why are freighters getting the timer at all? They cannot agress. Its literally impossible.
Seems to just be penalizing people for being in the game.


"hyperdunking": CCP your ruling on this is really... bad.
Concord, "Oh someone is getting ganked lets go stop him, oh hes in a pod now." ignore pod.
Ganker gets in another ship.
Concord, "Oh hes in a ship again lets to get him, and in pod again."
Ganker laughs and gets in another ship.
Rinse repeat. While the target cant get away due to being bumped by someone who is intentionally not agressing.
This is just mentally.... not allowed to say that here and really shouldn't offend people to much but point remains.


Seriously I am all for game play but this is literally a broken combo! I cant understand the stupidity in allowing this other then "Lawl".

And now either for your ideas or flaming...

*Edit*
A similar idea/fix could be to fix bounty hunting and make it a viable skill. Instead of people paying for kill rights it should be something else.
Also maybe make freighters almost impossible to bump ie more mass. They should have enough power as it is to plow through most people.

Yes, you are in a Pod and in a liquid so you can survive just fine. But your crew isnt. And if its automated your drones will have a hard time as well. Something will be dislodged.

And thinking of it like poles... ok but even they can be made to collide and with high enough mass and velocity they do impact and cause damage.

But good points!

Capitals, Titans and the like they can fight back sooo they wouldn't count. Also I only suggest reducing it when in freighters.
But you are not wrong for the most part.

Bumping can be mitigated and altered enough. Again at the minimal allowing people to warp off even if its not perfectly aligned and or just warp off in a random direction. (yes that could be abused) but at least its something.


I agree with you on hyperdunking.

I think that freighters and JFs ought toget pulled from high if they are to be that strong, I think that it's a much easier fix to high-sec ganking than what you propose.

@bumping:
so how would jita 4-4 undock look like? if you, purely by accident of course, undock a "blobb" of ships simultaneously with a freighter... they just bump the freighter to death? or will concord see that as agression? who is the aggressor? ...kick-off stations and the "no windows in stations"-thing (to name just a few) would need change/fixing.
I'm afraid this is not a "little" thing.

but i agree with you, it's ridiculous that there's no damage. i would welcome some change here (not to make bumping completely impossible, but make it a bit more "real"). ...and make successful bumping require more piloting skill.


@Logoff timer:
what ShahFluffers wrote. that was not a solution either. "closing the client when in danger" must never be a valid tactic. ever.


@hyperdunking:
npc must pod players. that's all.
Clone-upgrade removal appears to be a step in that direction. the new sleeper-AI apparently podding pilots is another step in the same direction. I'd say give CCP some time, they will implement this sooner or later.

What part of "Hi-sec Aggression Calls Concord" do you not understand? A point wouldn't hold them for very long.

None of the listed items are a problem.

So you are complaining that it's difficult to gank in HS w/ -10 characters? You say it wouldn't be fair to have to tag up to operate in HS as a -10 player? also pathetic. You want to be -10 without consequences in HS. Pathetic.

You see, once we get down to what's actually going on.... it's pathetic.

You want to be -10 and not have to mend that status and still operate in HS. You want to be able to control capital ships and move them to a place of your choosing w/ no consequence. Man up ganker dudes. Learn to deal with the game. This free ride needs to end.

And again for comprehension nitwits. I don't want to get rid of bumping. I wan't to give the guy at the keyboard not on auto pilot the ability to warp after a minute of being bumped. I want auto piloting freighters to accept the consequence of being bumped and ganked when they press the auto pilot button. I want at the keyboard freighter pilots to be able to warp even though they are being bumped after a minute of said bumping. That gives your -10 gank fleet 1 minute to get there and get down to business, but forces you to accept the consequence of gate guns and random looters when engaging an actively playing freighter pilot on a HS gate.

MAN UP

I think the ability to bump a freighter and basically control it w/out any consequence to the bumper is just bad.

I don't think freighter ganking would go away w/ a max align time mechanic. I think there will always be plenty of freighter peaches on auto pilot.

I think it's unreasonable to allow manned and actively piloted ships little to no chance of escape for an indefinite (bounded only by down time) period of time.

I get tired of hearing about the difficulties of operating in HS as a -10 characters

(PRO TIP: it's very easy to gank ships in HS and maintain a positive sec status. The maintenance isn't difficult but it does require a minimum amount of effort. You won't like doing these things, but that's why it's called a consequence instead of a benefit)

Ultimately, the problem with bumping is this:

Where do you draw the line between bumping into a ship by accident, especially at a crowded station undock, and deliberately bumping a ship in order to impact it in some negative way?


One bump?

Two bumps?

Bumping it going fast enough?

Bumping it by hitting approach?


How do you tell the difference between someone bumping a freighter to keep it from warping, and someone bumping into a friendly Orca that they're approaching to get into range to offload minerals? It's like art: you know it when you see it. Unfortunately, the server isn't an art critic and it needs a very clearly constructed set of rules to define aggressive bumping before it can impart any consequences.


"Bumping" is incredibly subjective. Until someone can come up with a 100% accurate, objective way to differentiate between deliberate bumping with the intent to cause harm and accidental bumping, there really isn't anything CCP can do to punish bumpers outside of reporting persistent bumpers for harassment.



As for my thoughts on logoff timers and Hyperdunking, I'm pretty much in agreement with ShahFluffers above. Timers are a necessary evil to avoid logoff tactics, and the case against Hyperdunking from the standpoint of game mechanics is pretty flimsy.