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Torpedos vs Cruise Missiles

Author
Rokko Rae
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2015-01-28 14:10:22 UTC
looking at battle clinic, almost all rocket ships seem to favor Torpedos over Cruise Missiles for PvP.
i know that Cruise Missiles are favorable vs Rats because of the range; doesnt that make them viable also in PvP ?
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
#2 - 2015-01-28 14:13:57 UTC
Most pvp tends to happen within tackle range, and short-range weapons do more dps than long-range weapons.

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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2015-01-28 14:14:55 UTC
Rokko Rae wrote:
looking at battle clinic, almost all rocket ships seem to favor Torpedos over Cruise Missiles for PvP.
i know that Cruise Missiles are favorable vs Rats because of the range; doesnt that make them viable also in PvP ?


If using the full range of cruise missile, you will have a little bit of trouble keeping your target pointed. It's also take a long ass time for the missile to reach it's target.
Vyl Vit
#4 - 2015-01-28 15:52:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Vyl Vit
I'm a cruise missile aficionado. Then, I use them for missions only. Yes, I like hitting at 135k or better in missions. They're short range, too, however. A cruise missile will work point blank. Torpedos do way more damage than CMs.
So, at close range, the torpedo is a better idea. And, as is said, pvp tends to be in your face.

The exception would be as a sniper. However, my Tornado will deliver a much more powerful Alpha than my rack of CMs on that 'phoon. So. There you go. Math wins again. (EDIT) I can also get roughly 80k more range with the 'nado.
Better sniper.

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Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#5 - 2015-01-28 16:17:13 UTC
Cruise missiles have very good damage application for a long range weapon system. Torpedoes have pretty bad application stats and much shorter range. tbh, if you use large missiles for pvp you really should be using cruise missiles unless you're flying a bomber.

The comparison between a tornado and a CM Typhoon is a bad one. The Typhoon has application bonuses rather than range bonuses. So using it like a sniper is not the best choice. A Raven has no problem getting incredible range out of cruise missiles. And those missiles will still consistently deliver a good portion of their potential dps because they have very good application stats for a large weapon system.

The reason we don't see regular fleets of CM Ravens is because of the drawbacks of shield buffer tanks compared to armor and BSs being slow as molasses flowing uphill on a cold winter morning compared to HACs and T3s. Not to mention that missiles can be destroyed in flight.

Cruise Missiles are actually pretty good. But the ships that can carry them aren't competitive with the other options.

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Orlacc
#6 - 2015-01-28 18:56:29 UTC
Rokko Rae wrote:
looking at battle clinic, almost all rocket ships seem to favor Torpedos over Cruise Missiles for PvP.
i know that Cruise Missiles are favorable vs Rats because of the range; doesnt that make them viable also in PvP ?



Only if your foe doesn't get close. As mentioned, most PvP is at tackle range hence torpedoes.

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."

Pok Nibin
Doomheim
#7 - 2015-01-28 20:02:39 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
The comparison between a tornado and a CM Typhoon is a bad one.
Huh? Wuh? Vyl's comparison such that it was, is accurate.
Soldarius wrote:
The reason we don't see regular fleets of CM Ravens is because of the drawbacks of shield buffer tanks compared to armor and BSs being slow as molasses flowing uphill on a cold winter morning compared to HACs and T3s. Not to mention that missiles can be destroyed in flight.
I think that's the reason we don't see BSs at all, no? And, since BSs fit the cruise missiles, we don't see them either.

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Mackenzie Nolen
Doomheim
#8 - 2015-01-29 01:06:59 UTC
Rokko Rae wrote:
looking at battle clinic, almost all rocket ships seem to favor Torpedos over Cruise Missiles for PvP.
i know that Cruise Missiles are favorable vs Rats because of the range; doesnt that make them viable also in PvP ?


Something else regarding the "sniping with cruises" not yet mentioned. Not only does it take forever for your damage to apply to the target, but if you have to warp off grid before your missiles hit the target, the missiles just go poof and never hit at all. So instant application with guns is typically MUCH preferred for long range PvP/sniping.
Bullet Therapist
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#9 - 2015-01-29 01:52:02 UTC
Rokko Rae wrote:
looking at battle clinic, almost all rocket ships seem to favor Torpedos over Cruise Missiles for PvP.
i know that Cruise Missiles are favorable vs Rats because of the range; doesnt that make them viable also in PvP ?


Neither cruise missiles or torps are used that often in PVP. There's a handful of nice uses for both and a variety of situations where they're perfectly viable, but they're still not terribly common. Torpedoes are often favored because of their higher DPS, and the tendency of targets to evade missiles at longer range. Personally, I like cruise missiles better because the apply damage better with less tackle and are easier to fit, but most people seem to be ignorant of how missiles apply their damage.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#10 - 2015-01-29 02:49:04 UTC
I have tried both Torpedos and Cruise Missiles. I am starting to look at Rapid Heavy Launchers and wondering if that might make more sense.

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Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2015-01-29 05:51:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Mocam
Bullet Therapist wrote:
Rokko Rae wrote:
looking at battle clinic, almost all rocket ships seem to favor Torpedos over Cruise Missiles for PvP.
i know that Cruise Missiles are favorable vs Rats because of the range; doesnt that make them viable also in PvP ?


Neither cruise missiles or torps are used that often in PVP. There's a handful of nice uses for both and a variety of situations where they're perfectly viable, but they're still not terribly common. Torpedoes are often favored because of their higher DPS, and the tendency of targets to evade missiles at longer range. Personally, I like cruise missiles better because the apply damage better with less tackle and are easier to fit, but most people seem to be ignorant of how missiles apply their damage.


Well.... For over 2 years this was held as common knowledge while the killboards showed drakes and HML launchers were always in the top 5 most used ships and weapons systems for PvP in this game.

Now I know times have changed but I doubt the use of these systems are only 'niche' vs the same rumor back in those days.

Torp ravens were also quite popular for some time there too.
Claud Tiberius
#12 - 2015-01-29 06:53:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Claud Tiberius
I made this comment yesterday:
Quote:
Do you see a problem with viability between T1 ships? From frigate to battle ship, they all have their place and generally-speaking, the larger ships dominate the smaller ones.

The same structure is placed within the T2 ship range (with the exception of the Ishtar perhaps, because its OP) thus its not simple to just compare T1 against T2. Although some attributes may be similar between T1 and T2 ships, there are usually many other differences such as costs, bonuses, fitting, contributing skills, etc.

So T1 BS and T2/T3 Cruisers have their place.

I think its more appropriate to ask: Why are T2/T3 Crusiers so popular? The answer to that is:

They're more flexible than Command and Marauder ships.
They're much easier to train than for Command or Marauder ships.
They're much more useful (less specialized) than Command and [much more useful than] Marauder ships.
They're very popular, which means there's more of them on the market, cheaper to buy, easy to fit and more accepted within fleets.
And the Ishtar/Tengu is OP.

For the most part, EVE is going to stay like that because this is what players want.

If you are still wondering why T1 BS are not as popular as HAC/T3, its because of various reasons, including:
BS are not well accepted in T3/HAC fleets.
BS are risky investments for a battlefields that are populated by T3/HAC fleets (not to mention, Capitals).

So what I would do is improve Marauders and Command ships (or make them more accessible to players) in hoping that it will reduce the number of T3/HAC.

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Yarda Black
The Black Redemption
#13 - 2015-01-29 08:59:14 UTC
With cruise missiles, you need your target painted, webbed and thoroughly pointed.

With torpedoes you'll ask yourself why you didnt bring a turretship.

Ofcourse there is always the armor raven with torps, painter, double web, and point jumping into lowsec to "run missions".

I believe BS use in general has declined for PvP due to bombers and time. First it takes ages to get anywhere with the damn things and when you finally get there... Well, nice sig radius you're flying with.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#14 - 2015-01-29 09:05:18 UTC
Mocam wrote:


Well.... For over 2 years this was held as common knowledge while the killboards showed drakes and HML launchers were always in the top 5 most used ships and weapons systems for PvP in this game.

Now I know times have changed but I doubt the use of these systems are only 'niche' vs the same rumor back in those days.

Torp ravens were also quite popular for some time there too.


Drakes happened mostly for their tank and capless weapons. Missiles are still used but anything past 60km goes over to the turrets. Turrets will land more shots on target before the first wave of missiles hit so you can kill more than a missile fleet at long range.
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#15 - 2015-01-29 11:34:46 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Most pvp tends to happen within tackle range, and short-range weapons do more dps than long-range weapons.

I still don't quite get it, as cruise missiles do more damage vs targets that are smaller and faster than deployed marauders... Straight

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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
#16 - 2015-01-29 12:05:18 UTC
Debora Tsung wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Most pvp tends to happen within tackle range, and short-range weapons do more dps than long-range weapons.

I still don't quite get it, as cruise missiles do more damage vs targets that are smaller and faster than deployed marauders... Straight

Generally speaking, if I'm bringing battleships-sized missiles to a pvp fight, I'm not expecting to shoot anything smaller than say, a BC.

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https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Venom Anarchy
Venom and Bullet Corporation
#17 - 2015-01-29 15:45:12 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
I have tried both Torpedos and Cruise Missiles. I am starting to look at Rapid Heavy Launchers and wondering if that might make more sense.


Target Signature radius probably needs to be above 100m still for them to be effective.

Torps are short range weapons which mean the target has to come to you or you have to go to it.

Cruise are an Artillery weapon, potential damage is less but they have less requirement for the target to be in the ideal position to be shot for that potential to happen.

Torps and Cruise are more difficult to be skilled in both as short and long range turret weapons share more of the same skill chain.

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Venom Anarchy
Venom and Bullet Corporation
#18 - 2015-01-29 20:31:02 UTC
Also all your amazing projectile damage choices disappear at T2

V & B Corporation