Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Guaranteed ship loss, sec loss, chance of gank failure, the inability to roam freely in high sec with a ship when -5 sec or lower, open season to all anywhere any time and kill rights, are not risks that gankers are susceptible to then?

Must be why ganking is so prevalent then. Oh wait....

Yet their time spent in boredom trying to aquire targets is much greater that any of your provided exampes.

I'm curious, what is the average isk/hr made on a typical miner gank and a typical freighter gank once you factor in all the man hours to find the targets and arrange the gank?

are you really trying to argue that ganking is balanced with boredom....


Let's reverse the scenario for a moment and i think we might understand eachother a little better. Assume that mining ships became invulnerable when they entered belts, or say you werent allowed to enter an explorer's plex. a missioner's mission always spawned in the same system and you werent allow to enter the mission area, or say concord response time was always instant, etc. These individuals would still have some exposure, but would the amount of time they are exposed really be sufficient? IMO, that answer is no, because if the window of opportunity to gank these individuals is so low that gankers barely have a chance to gank, it isnt really in the spirit of Eve, and although these professions would still have the same risks, they would be substantially less susceptible to them.

Likewise, white knights and those seeking revenge should have a more reasonable window of opportunity to ruin a ganker's operations.


Any numbers on the number of ganking operations that took losses due to active 3rd party intervention?



susceptibility is my interest. As a profession in eve, ganking should be subject to adequate exposure. Risk v Reward. The risk part means very little if the time spent being susceptible to it is too small.

One of the main reasons for a small exposure time, is facpo. It's one of those risks you are wanting more of. The trouble is, it's detrimental to player interaction. That's hardly the fault of the ganker.

I don't have numbers, but in C&P there is a thread from the AG crowd. They are starting to have some success.

The real risk in ganking is the threat of finding a carebear who has actually fitted tank on their ship and is prepared and aware. That **** is dangerous as hell, but fortunately very very rare.

This is just semantics but undocking in that ship while -10 is still a risk. I have lost many a ship en route to a gank to white knights, opportunists or to the faction police. I agree that once you start the gank it probably is more of a "cost", but that is a pretty meaningless distinction.

But this really isn't the point. Gankers have accepted both the risks and the cost/consequences of their actions and both are significant. To mitigate these downsides, especially the faction police, they are forced to fly small ships and hide in the station most of the time. This isn't ideal from a player interaction standpoint, but does limit the amount of damage they can do. Players cannot both argue for increased NPC-based restrictions for gankers, and that gankers don't risk enough as the latter is a direct result of the former.

Either gankers should be viewed as thugs in a dark alley who pop out from time-to-time and commit a petty crime, or actual villains that can be battled by the good folk of highsec. What we have now is more like the first case where just like the random mugger, there are precautions you can take to protect yourself, or even attack in that moment in self defense, but one they get your wallet and disappear into the shadows there is not much you can do. Alternatively, the faction police could be relaxed/removed, gankers allowed to move more freely and fly real PvP ships, and treat the situation more like faction warfare where there a two sides battling in a more traditional PvP way.

Personally, I am fine with the "mugger paradigm". Gankers serve a useful role forcing fitting choices (yield vs. tank) and attentiveness on players in highsec which is why CCP put suicide ganking and highsec criminals in the game in the first place. The amount of damage they do overall is low, and completely avoidable by those that spend the effort to protect themselves as it should be. In this, gankers are more like a player-enforced game mechanic rather than a profession and thus can't really be balanced like other professions - nor should that be tried as they actually do not add resources or ISK to the economy.

Why you need a more dangerous highsec ? Ingame you have a lot of places you can make your pew pew (wh, nullsec, lowsec,...) .

I don't understand the fun you have to destroy a ship with no def in highsec. And generaly you will destroy newbie ship (Retriever or covetor are in the ganker menu). This game is supposed to be fun for all players. Currently, it is too easy for ganking and I am for that shakes their screws. There is no consequence and the ganker is died laughing!

Often we see shouting matches who not end up more in the Local chat. Where is the pleasure ?

And I do not understand why CCP encourages this cowardly act in highsec. It just to rot the game.

Another suggestion : Now How to reduce this cowardly act? If you are in highsec and you are not in wardec, just remove the reward when you destroy a vessel with no def. (mining barge, Transport ship, freighter) It's easy and simple and the number of ganker will significantly decrease.

The day or you will understand that this game is not just a Pew Pew game. That day, the world will have evolved a little bit...

Fly safe... in highsec!

Hello,

Yes I know this is a game where the pew pew is predominant. There are several areas to do it and when I go to these areas, I accept the risks.

I do not like that we encourage in games cowardly and unfair acts. I think it is a very bad example to set for our young players. This is why I don't like Ganker.

You ask me why I love playing this game?
Actually, I like more facet of the game, including research, invention, construction, trade, mining, exploration and PVP, but even in small doses.

When I'm highsec is that I want a quiet place, as always in combat, it getting boring for me.

There are four areas to be exact: high sec, low sec, null sec and wormhole space.

You'd have to dig through my old posts, but I did calculate this on the forums once. It came out to about 3 mill an hour for miner ganking, and 15m/hr/player for freighter ganking. The difficulty with the freighter ganking calculation is that the reward per gank varies wildly. I don't remember what numbers I used for average loot from a freighter, but I made the (very generous) assumption that the gankers somehow managed to find three targets worth ganking per hour and ignored all empty targets (this doesn't actually happen). Day and time also play into those numbers heavily. The largest kills are often within 30-60 minutes of downtime.

Oh and for anyone who says that the consequences of ganking don't matter. Keep it mind that it takes a full month to wait out killrights. My last one went away today, and I haven't ganked anything since december. Yes they can be cleared in many cases, but when you have over 120 killrights, I promise you won't be doing it that way. Also, claiming that tags are cheap or whatever is blatantly false. If I were only to gank miners, I would be looking at 60-70 hours of ganking to afford one sec to tags to get myself back up to 0.0.