Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I think that is misleading.

Local, in it's current form, gives intel.
You can see who is in system, even know their official alliance relation to yourself.
Updated quickly enough to treat as an early warning system for hostile new arrivals.

Cloaking, particularly with the AFK variety in sov null, acts as a form of intel deprivation.
Yes, everyone knows you are present in one sense, with a pilot online in the system.
But the part about where you are, and whether you are actually active, instead of asleep, that is less credible since the only change local gave indicating activity was your arrival itself.
This information, lacking credible updates, becomes increasingly suspect OVER TIME.
Yes, everyone knows you have a pilot logged in, but are you actually a real threat instead of just an imagined one?

These are acting as two sides of the same coin.
On one side, we have what you do know.
On the other side, we have what you do not know.

Without uncertainty, we are simply playing a fancy MOBA in space.
Between huge blobs zerging large areas, or solo pilots doing a leeroy jenkins attack with no hope, other games have that play style alredy covered.

I think this is an extremely valid point and perfectly illustrates what I am saying. This is valid directly to the local debate, and only tangentially to the cloak debate. The cloak has many intricacies and considerations beyond simply local intel deprivation. When I am running a bomber through a gate camp that sees me jump in (are physically there), I am not worried about inel deprivation, just disappearing long enough to gtfo. If that is my aim, then whether it takes fuel, is run perpetually, or can be scanned with effort is part of the assets in space argument where local intel is a tangential aspect.

Anyway, the cloaking topic shouldn't be overly simplified and linked solely to the local debate, however, intel deprivation is a valid and strong case for the local debate and would belong there.

Only the cloaked player is safe in space. You just trying to drive logic into the mud with the same loop.

Add "last seen in 'ship type'," to tracking agent reports.

Add tracking to Sov that allows Sov holders to get mail in the same way tracking agents send it. If Skydell is in system, she was seen at Gate A in a Pilgrim just before it cloaked.

If you know I am cloaked up in a Pilgrim you know what I am capable of doing and can prepare for it.

If you want to take it a step further, add a module to Titan, similar to remote ECM but it will decloak everything in system. If the person is ATK, they will be able to cloak back up. If they are truly AFK, they die in a fire.

How about using these new npc sleeper's to but a spanner in the works for cloaky campers have them deal with them the possibility of having your ship killed by them sounds fantastic

And while they are safe cloaked, you are from them.

But you are correct it is hard trying to get you to see logic, when you're only interested in muddying the waters. I do at least attempt to be as honest as possible and balance requires logic, to be correctly achieved.

But I do find it telling, that you make such a comment regarding logic. It does explain a lot, in relation to your thought process and approach to this subject.

What is there even to discuss?
If the current cloaking mechanics fit into the rest of the mechanics is completly obvious.

The interesting space in EVE is sov-0.0 + whs.
NPC-00, lowsec + highsec are for risk averse ppl who want to have a little bit of fun. That's fine but the real "harcore"-area of eve is still sov-0.0 + whs

And to stay on those areas you have to use one of the 3:
1. work for it and actively protect your work
2. Keep yourself on your toes in a smart way
3. AFK around in a cloaky ship

Explaination:
If you want to Idle you have to do a big chunk of work and a steady smaller chunk of work afterwards. You will also have to pay:
1a) You can conquer and protect a station. You will have to pay the bills and as soon as you lose the station undocking is a one way trip
1b) Put up a POS. You will need to move the components there at one point and later you will have to move the fuel there. You will have to pay for the fuel aswell. If you cannot protect the pos it can and will be shot down.

2) If you don't want to pay ISK you will to move around, continuesly create new saveposts and outrun your foes. If you mess up a single time you will die. You have to pay for your missing preperation with needed activity.

3) Oh. Sorry. I forgot Cloaking. You can aswell skil the preperation/cost + the needed activity aswell. Just put any cloak on your ship and you are golden! Make 10 alts with a covert cyno + covert cloak and put them into 10 enemy systems for 4 months. You only need to relog them once after downtime. This leaves your opponents with 2 choices:
3.1) Abandon all 10 systems and move somewhere else
3.2) Keep using those systems and hope the cloaky doesn't come online while you play there. If he comes online you will lose your ships.
This all can be bought by having multiple altchars in your group and loging them on once a day. Awesome...... If you have more of those altchars than your opponents have systems, they can still go to Highsec right?!?

Invulnerable permanent AFK cloaking is a horrible game mechanic. I don't beleave anyone REALLY thinks otherwise. Some people use it and therefore they want to keep it BUT it is still not a good game mechanic.

Should we ever forget the simple joys of comedy, this post can help to remind us.

Oh, beautifully put.

We can use any cloak on our ship.
(but on the next line)
Make 10 alts with a covert cyno + covert cloak and put them into 10 enemy systems for 4 months.

Lets do some math here. The points made above following this one assume cloaked ships are always successful when they attack, an absolute condition which I am sure we all agree with.

1 account, per month, 15$. Not a crippling amount to most.
10 accounts, per month, 150$. Ok, for some folks that is a car payment.
Do this for 4 months. 150$ x 4 = 600$.

Apparently this is something done by either affluent people, (wealthy), or those able to play so much that they can earn the ISK to plex an additional 10 accounts per month, without using those same accounts in the earning process.

Wait, there is more. A wealthy enough person could conceivably buy out CCP, and put in specific rules allowing them to send in Concord, but reprogrammed to protect the asteroids and NPC rats in sov null.
I can see the conspiracy now.

Yes, I can safely say we both have a sense of humor.

You forget the option to actually do something beyond whining about how unfair it is that you're not allowed to rat/mine in 100% safety.

• Do some research into your cloaky camper, find when he's active, and rat outside those hours.
• Do some research into your cloaky camper, find when he's active, and bait him into a trap.
• Change the ship you fly so that you can do some damage when you get dropped on. Hot droppers are as risk averse as you are. If you start costing them ships, and hurting their precious kililboard ratio, they'll leave you alone.

Cloaky campers and hot droppers are not the problem. Your own risk averse behavior is.

For some reason you choose to not say that last sentence loud enough, so I fixed.

But oh my space-God, if what you said isn't true, I'm a one legged hamster. Hot-droppers/gankers/gate campers etc want kills, not fights (and nothing wrong with that, real life hunters tend to prefer to not be mauled to death by unarmed bears). I have NEVER seen a hot drop gang lose ships and return to the same system to do it again.

If the people spamming this thread spent half as much time figuring out how to PUNISH hot droppers and ignore afk-cloakers who are bluffing, they'd understand why 'afk-cloaking' is a joke.