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A Message Regarding "Hyperdunking"

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Canenald
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#261 - 2015-01-28 10:03:19 UTC
A neat way to solve this would be to make an Orca or any other ship providing services to a capsuleer with a criminal flag gain a suspect flag. It is aiding a criminal after all, isn't it? That would even the odds a bit. Freighters would still have to use alts or buddies for scouting, webs or escort, and gankers would have to use a buddy or be more attentive and stay aligned on their Orca alt so that they don't get pointed and blown up.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#262 - 2015-01-28 10:05:25 UTC
Canenald wrote:
A neat way to solve this would be to make an Orca or any other ship providing services to a capsuleer with a criminal flag gain a suspect flag.
Solve what? What's the problem?
Anthar Thebess
#263 - 2015-01-28 10:08:18 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:
We can argue as much as you can, and we both are right.
Not really, no, since you claimed that the costs will magically go down just because of a GM statement. That is pretty much the opposite of being right.

In reality, costs remain the same or go up ever so slightly because the cost lies in the ships being lost, and that number will only go up.

Quote:
For me cost is also time .
That stays the same too, you know, for pretty much the exact same reason.

Before, you had to deliver, say, 200k damage using 400-DPS ships, meaning you needed 500 damage-seconds for the target to go down. Since you didn't have 500 seconds in one go, you had to cut it up among 20 ships doing it in parallel. You then docked up and had a sandwich while the scooper picked the loot apart and the timers counted down.

Now, you have to deliver, say, 2000k damage using 400-DPS ships, meaning you need 500 damage-seconds for the target to go down. Since you don't have 500 seconds in one go, you have to cut it up among 20 ships doing it in series. You then dock up and have a sandwich while the scooper picks the loot apart and the timer counts down.

500 seconds of work is 500 seconds of work. Again, if anything, the total time spent has gone up because you are far more restricted in the number of viable targets so you have to spend more waste time finding one that will work for you.


No you are wrong again.
Before.
You needed 11 people ready at all time, sitting and waiting for a expensive ship to come.
This could take 10minutes or 4 hours.

Now.
You are doing this alone.
You don't need to count on any one.

Waiting is also what you need to consider.

I prefer tornado turkey shooting.
I do it without any scaning alt , just one that pick up the stuff.

Now i need to buy myself bownhead Big smile

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#264 - 2015-01-28 10:14:57 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
No you are wrong again.
Before.
You needed 11 people
…who could do something else while waiting, thereby not wasting any time. The only one that needs to be properly active during the wind-up is the scout — same as now. The work time remains the same. The post-gank time is more time that can be spent on doing other things and thus not wasted. Being inefficient with your use of time is your choice, not a fixed cost for a gank.

Quote:
Now.
You are doing this alone.
…and the before, during, and after-work requirements remains the same (or, well… the actual gank takes a lot longer due to the restocking time so there's a slight increase there).
Candi LeMew
Division 13
#265 - 2015-01-28 10:18:33 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Solve what? What's the problem?

It's really nice seeing you around again.

Nothing to solve here, moving right along ...

🍌

Remember... in Anoikis Bob Is Always Watching...

"I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#266 - 2015-01-28 10:24:02 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:
You are wrong.
No.
Before, it took X catalysts, a bumper, (preferably) a cleaner, and a hauler to kill and loot a freighter.
With this tactic, it takes X+ catalysts, a delivery vehicle, a bumper, (preferably) a cleaner, and a hauler to kill and loot a freighter.

The added delivery vehicle is perhaps not that much at risk, but you never know when some evil ganker might pass by and say “hey, I'd like to kill me one of those”. So that's already more risk right there, if minimal. Then there's the fact that you don't deliver damage in parallel but in series, meaning more HP to chew through, more ships required to do so, and the potential for some nasty evil white knight to come along and kick that HP back up, again raising the cost.

Quote:
You see the difference?
I know the difference between “cost” and “cut”. You don't. So shush.

Quote:
You don't play eve on 1 account.
Really? That's news to me. So how many accounts do I play EVE on, because it looks like I need to start looking for the other ones.

You missed neutral agressor on the list of people required, unless you want the target logging off to be the end of the gank attempt.

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#267 - 2015-01-28 10:57:44 UTC
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
You missed neutral agressor on the list of people required, unless you want the target logging off to be the end of the gank attempt.

Fair point. That's something that's needed under the old model and not the new one, but it is also essentially free since that aggression can be done with a civilian module in a n00bship.
TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
#268 - 2015-01-28 10:59:00 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Tippia wrote:

Bagrat Skalski wrote:
So when can we expect CONCORD podding the criminals?

Never. Podding is a 100% player activity and there's no reason for NPCs to ever do it.



Just keep believing that...


He did not read the minutes it seems.

"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X

"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron

-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#269 - 2015-01-28 11:07:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
TheSmokingHertog wrote:
He did not read the minutes it seems.

You mean the bit where CCP states that they have no plans of announcing such a change, and offers no reason for it to happen?
Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#270 - 2015-01-28 12:24:01 UTC
Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:
Commentus Nolen wrote:
If I find the stash of ships the hyperdunker has stashed and they are unpiloted can i destroy them without Concord intervention?

Do I get a kill mail for destroying them?
As far as I know Concord will intervene if you shoot at them, but if you can fly them you can certainly board them and steal them Pirate.

You can also target them to prevent the hyperdunker from boarding them, however if their "drop ship" is still around the pilot can do the same to prevent you from boarding and stealing them.


Hilariously, you could also board one, shoot another to get yourself concorded, and then keep jumping in the other ships while under the GCC to get Concord to clean the lot up :P
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#271 - 2015-01-28 12:27:48 UTC
Tippia wrote:
TheSmokingHertog wrote:
He did not read the minutes it seems.

You mean the bit where CCP states that they have no plans of announcing such a change, and offers no reason for it to happen?



You do know NPCs are podding now and the new Sleeper AI will include podding as well right? And yes, it was in the CSM minutes and all over Reddit.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Concord Guy's Cousin
Doomheim
#272 - 2015-01-28 12:27:50 UTC
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:
Commentus Nolen wrote:
If I find the stash of ships the hyperdunker has stashed and they are unpiloted can i destroy them without Concord intervention?

Do I get a kill mail for destroying them?
As far as I know Concord will intervene if you shoot at them, but if you can fly them you can certainly board them and steal them Pirate.

You can also target them to prevent the hyperdunker from boarding them, however if their "drop ship" is still around the pilot can do the same to prevent you from boarding and stealing them.


Hilariously, you could also board one, shoot another to get yourself concorded, and then keep jumping in the other ships while under the GCC to get Concord to clean the lot up :P
Nice, that hadn't even occurred to me.

ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"

NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#273 - 2015-01-28 12:31:21 UTC
Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:
As far as I know Concord will intervene if you shoot at them, but if you can fly them you can certainly board them and steal them Pirate.

You can also target them to prevent the hyperdunker from boarding them, however if their "drop ship" is still around the pilot can do the same to prevent you from boarding and stealing them.


Hilariously, you could also board one, shoot another to get yourself concorded, and then keep jumping in the other ships while under the GCC to get Concord to clean the lot up :P
Nice, that hadn't even occurred to me.
That is funny stuff and worth a try. Lol

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#274 - 2015-01-28 12:31:26 UTC
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:
Commentus Nolen wrote:
If I find the stash of ships the hyperdunker has stashed and they are unpiloted can i destroy them without Concord intervention?

Do I get a kill mail for destroying them?
As far as I know Concord will intervene if you shoot at them, but if you can fly them you can certainly board them and steal them Pirate.

You can also target them to prevent the hyperdunker from boarding them, however if their "drop ship" is still around the pilot can do the same to prevent you from boarding and stealing them.


Hilariously, you could also board one, shoot another to get yourself concorded, and then keep jumping in the other ships while under the GCC to get Concord to clean the lot up :P



Be easier to just fit a SeBo on your Bowhead and lock the cat so ganker can't board it. I think you get 5x locks so you could take a lot of damage off the field unless you have a real slick Orca dropper.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#275 - 2015-01-28 12:35:45 UTC
Arla Sarain wrote:
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Since the introduction of the Bowhead freighter, we’ve become aware of a tactic that has been introduced which has become known as “Hyperdunking”. This involves leaving a grid where a criminal action occurs to draw away CONCORD and reshipping to continue shooting at a target. There’s been much discussion among members of the community regarding this tactic, and whether or not it is considered legitimate gameplay.

After meeting with members of the game design and customer support teams and discussing this in depth, we have come to the consensus that due to the fact no rules are being broken and any ship that is involved in a criminal act is being destroyed by CONCORD as intended, that this tactic is simply an unintended but legitimate use of new game mechanics, and is not in breach of the rules. Tactics similar to this have been used with previous hulls before the Bowhead was introduced, and have been considered perfectly legitimate in the past.

With this in mind, at this time we do not consider this tactic to be in breach of the game rules, and as such our customer support team will not be offering reimbursements for hulls lost in this manner.

Players are also reminded that if someone is criminally flagged, they are fair game to be attacked in self-defense. Feel free to use this to your advantage.


So when can we expect CONCORD podding the criminals?

When can we expect haulers to hire protection? Like play the game and not have CCP play it for them.


It can be a Goon provided service right? No way to scam here. Let me just accept that duel request for fast align times Roll

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#276 - 2015-01-28 12:41:46 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
You do know NPCs are podding now and the new Sleeper AI will include podding as well right? And yes, it was in the CSM minutes and all over Reddit.

Again: you mean the bit where CCP states that they have no plans of announcing such a change, and offers no reason for it to happen?
Hicksimus
Torgue
#277 - 2015-01-28 13:01:02 UTC
Same old lazy CCP. Fixing this would require work that we cannot be bothered to do right now so it's not an exploit.

Not that hyperdunking matters to me(maybe I'm doing it) but CCP takes the lazy route every time something comes up that would require actual work to be done.

Recruitment Officer: What type of a pilot are you? Me: I've been described as a Ray Charles with Parkinsons and a drinking problem.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#278 - 2015-01-28 13:06:33 UTC
Hicksimus wrote:
Same old lazy CCP. Fixing this would require work that we cannot be bothered to do right now so it's not an exploit.

Not that hyperdunking matters to me(maybe I'm doing it) but CCP takes the lazy route every time something comes up that would require actual work to be done.

What's there to fix? And seeing as how they have fixed some actual exploits and broken code in this area in the past, what makes you think that they're just trying to avoid work?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#279 - 2015-01-28 13:10:27 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Hicksimus wrote:
Same old lazy CCP. Fixing this would require work that we cannot be bothered to do right now so it's not an exploit.

Not that hyperdunking matters to me(maybe I'm doing it) but CCP takes the lazy route every time something comes up that would require actual work to be done.

What's there to fix? And seeing as how they have fixed some actual exploits and broken code in this area in the past, what makes you think that they're just trying to avoid work?


Well, that's obvious.

Because he doesn't want it to be true.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#280 - 2015-01-28 13:14:42 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Arla Sarain wrote:

When can we expect haulers to hire protection? Like play the game and not have CCP play it for them.


It can be a Goon provided service right? No way to scam here. Let me just accept that duel request for fast align times Roll


Are you saying this face doesn't look honest and trustworthy to you? Cry

I wouldn't worry, as a certified F1 monkey, I assure you I could probably very easily lose a 1v1 against an unarmed freighter Ugh