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Idea's for capitals

Author
Schools Undefiable
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2015-01-24 23:47:20 UTC
This post is mostly for ccp and the player base about what we can do to currently improve upon capitals and there uses.
I'll try to list my ideas in as logically as I can ti help.
Carriers, remove the additional drone per carrier level bonus and replace it with a 10% bonus to drone and fighter damage (and hp... maybe) This will effectively reduce the damage that carriers can do in there current use in nullsec. instead of 10 effective drones on feild they will have effectively 7.5 drones on field. Now with the 5 additional drones you can get from the high slot module, a carrier can still put out the same damage with a current carrier with the 5 high slot modules Reduce fighter's volume. This will give ccp an excuse to lower overall carrier drone bay capacities, this will prevent a carrier from having 50 curators in its cargo putting a greater limitation on there ability to keep launching more drones when they die Help the tirage! Give the triage module some love to incurage its use. currently triage carriers need to fill there rigs with ccc's and mids and low slots to help there capacitor regeneration. Give the Triage module a reduction to remote assitance capacitor costs. This will alow them to use more tirmark rigs or resistance mods become a little more durable sense they cant receive reps.
Dreadnoughts: Generally a well used ships but my issue with it is it seems to only be good at one role, shooting other capitals and structures. Although this is not a bad thing, I wish it could do a little more to help out sub capitals. I would give them tracking bonuses/explosion velocety bonuses while they are out of seige. This will give them more of a battleship feel while out of siege, then allowing them to shift into there seige mode if larger targets come on field or to shoot a structure.
Super carriers:Remove there remote assistance bonuses, this role makes them too much aligned to carriers unless you actually want them to act like tech 2 carriers, if that's the case make them tech 2 carriers. Reduce there ability to engage sub caps by removing there 100% bonus to fighter and fighter bomber damage and hp, but that bonus back into fighter bombers, but leave the fighters out. This will still allow them to engage sub caps to a degree but to less reward, making them in some cases to great of a risk to drop on a sub cap fleet. Lower there starting hp values (10-20%?) certainly supers owe there massive hp values because players like to stack t2 trimarks on and high grade slaves, this idea is up in the air I realize but super carriers (the aeon especially) are getting insanely high hp values rivaling that of titan's Basically, align super carriers to be more focused on overall capital vs capital damage role with FBs and less of being a 'super' carrier
Titans are actually I believe in a good place right now, they have both sub capital support capabilities in form of fleet bonuses witch I wish to see more of, or they get a bonus to fleet bonus modules further increasing this ability, and there bridge witch is a great utility to have. They also have a massive role in capital killing abilities using there dd's and great damage with there guns and missiles. I wish to put an even bigger gap between supers and titans as far as there capabilities go by again reducing super capital starting hp so it doesn't feel like a player is paying 5x more for a ship that gets the same hp and has only 1 real advantage of mounting a dd.
Throw supers a carrot!
The Mittani, an infamous man certainly in the null sec community, who has been brainwashed several times by his tyrannical Alaskan Malamute and been driven to do many bad things to this great eve community, has on several occasions advocated for letting supers dock. I can see a reason why ccp wouldn't want supers to dock, mostly for giving them the feel of more of a flagship sailing in the pacific were smaller vessels need to pull along side it to refuel the massive beast and rearm it. But even super carriers of today after long months of a deployment still have a dry dock waiting for them at there home ports. Here is my vision, ORE needed a way to dock larger industrial ships more easily to move greater quantities of minerals from industrial ships. They designed a new station with a wider docking port that can toe ships of greater scale into them. Unfortunately to make up for this the station has very limited services, restricted to only hangers and a repair bay, (they might not have been able to fit that in there either) this station would allow for a character to store a super capital or titan in it, this op type structure would be destructible, sense it also doesn't keep a large civilian population to worry about. this station would only have 1 reinforcement timer, and ships over certain size, will not be able to undock, because of issues with guidance systems inside the station to allow supers to safely undock. This may also cause fights in order to e-vac trapped assets in these stations.
Anyway, please think on these ideas a bit, respond with what you think, give feed back, ccp is trying to re-purpose supers so give feedback on ways we can help and improve them. Sorry for any grammar and spelling mistakes.
Schools Undefiable
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2015-01-24 23:50:40 UTC
So I ran out of room to type all of this lol, give me more space CCP! So as I was saying, sorry for grammar, spelling issues, I am bad at ingrish. And I apologize, Sitka, I did expose your puppet who you've been using to slowly take over the world.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Wild Geese.
#3 - 2015-01-25 02:08:23 UTC
First off... use punctuation and breaks between your paragraphs.

Schools Undefiable wrote:
Carriers, remove the additional drone per carrier level bonus and replace it with a 10% bonus to drone and fighter damage (and hp... maybe)
... (snip)...
Reduce fighter's volume. This will give ccp an excuse to lower overall carrier drone bay capacities, this will prevent a carrier from having 50 curators in its cargo putting a greater limitation on there ability to keep launching more drones when they die Help the tirage! Give the triage module some love to incurage its use. currently triage carriers need to fill there rigs with ccc's and mids and low slots to help there capacitor regeneration. Give the Triage module a reduction to remote assitance capacitor costs. This will alow them to use more tirmark rigs or resistance mods become a little more durable sense they cant receive reps.

Tech 2 Triage gives a 20% reduction in RR module capacitor cost.

For the rest of it...

- DPS was never a carrier's strong suit. At most, you can get about ~3000 dps... but that is ONLY if you sacrifice all other fitting aspects. On average, a carrier can pump out about ~600 to 1000 dps using 10x Ogre IIs or 10 Fighters (respectively). That is battleship level.

- Slowcat/Pantheon fits are powerful not because of the DPS they can dish... it is the power of their capital remote reps. Each non-Triage carrier can rep about 900 dps... get 10 carriers all RRing each other and you have to find a way to break through 8,000 hp/sec reps (on top of very high resistances). Get 20 carriers doing this and you are talking about ~17,000 hp/sec.

- The reason Triage is rarely seen is because people have wised up to it. You neut it down to nothing and it basically dies.
Truth be told though... this will always be a problem for "local" repairs and "solo-type" modules. And you can't buff them without going into WTF numbers territory.

- CCCs will ALWAYS be preferable over Trimarks for Tirage fits. Capacitor power = life. No capacitor power = death (even if you have more overall HP).

Schools Undefiable wrote:
Dreadnoughts: Generally a well used ships but my issue with it is it seems to only be good at one role, shooting other capitals and structures. Although this is not a bad thing, I wish it could do a little more to help out sub capitals. I would give them tracking bonuses/explosion velocety bonuses while they are out of seige. This will give them more of a battleship feel while out of siege, then allowing them to shift into there seige mode if larger targets come on field or to shoot a structure.

FYI: This is a thing. They are called "blap dreds." It once became popular enough that CCP nerfed their tracking to make it harder... but people still find ways to do it.
Before that, dreds used to have drone bays (the Moros used to have a 20% bonus to drone damage and HP). Those were also removed. Because capitals are SUPPOSED to rely on outside help to be effective against sub-capitals.

(NOTE: did you know that a Phoenix with 2x webs, 2x Target Painters, and warfare links can insta-pop most cruisers, battlecruisers, and some battleships?)


With regards to the rest of the post...

- supers are more or less fine. As are Titans. Neutering them further isn't really necessary. Although... I would like to see them lose immunity to regular warp disruptors/scramblers and gain a +xx bonus to warp disruption/scrambling.
Aside from DICs and HICs, no one ship would be able to hold them down (as it is now)... but a fleet could (if you have sufficient numbers).

- no to supercapital docking. That is part of why they are more or less balanced as they are; they are a PITA to take care of.



If you want my take on what to do about capitals...


- carriers should be made more expensive (seriously... they are good at many things)

- carriers should have their CPU-PG looked at... outside of the Archon, no other carrier can fit 4 of their preferred style of reps.

- the Thanatos and Nidhoggur get bonuses for local tank... making them more viable for Triage duty. The Chimera and Archon are fine with their resistance bonuses (it falls in line with racial flavor too).

- assisting fighters should be done away with. In fact... assisting any drone to anyone should be done away with. "Guarding assist" is fine though.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#4 - 2015-01-25 15:21:12 UTC
Issues I want to add:

On the upside:
Carriers are swiss army knifes. They're damn cheap aswell for what they offer.
Supercarriers got slightly overbuffed recently on *what they can apply damage to*.

On the downside:
Titan's are basically an alliance-taxi with a one-use BFG.
Dreadnoughts are good in siege, but unlike carriers they serve no purpose outside of siege.

My personal wishlist would be:
- Carriers only use fighters
- Nerf fighter mwd-velocity to more reasonable levels or add some stacking penalties to drone speed mods (there curently seem to be none)
- Remove *assign fighters and follow you around the system through warps*, this whole mechanic is simply stupid. Nothing more ridiculous than a condor with 5 fighters camping a gate. You want carrier dps? Bring carrier to the fight.

Alternatively, give dreadnoughts a way to not fit a siege module and still be amazeballs like carriers.
Schools Undefiable
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2015-01-25 17:54:22 UTC
The whole idea of giving dreads a tracking bonus outside of siege was so they didn't have the massive damage on top of the tracking. It was just an idea to give dreads a role outside of siege like carriers currently have. The idea of changing a carriers damage bonuses were to force carriers to either go reps or damage.
KnightMaire kings
The Exchange Collective
#6 - 2015-01-26 05:47:55 UTC
forceing dreads to stay out of stage is the only way for small gangs to deal with balp dreads in wh space and plz don't **** with my dread I just got her put back together after ccps last visit from the "good idea farey"

The only major drawback is the crazed notion that the inventory would look so much better if merely rearranged ONE MORE TIME.

Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#7 - 2015-01-26 15:24:32 UTC
In before the move to F&I. Blink

With the recent changes to capitals (travel changes, fighter/bomber scanres nerf, etc.), I see some potential for diversifying the capital (not supercap, at least not yet) lineup. Not as a way to help them deal with subcaps mind you, but as a way to provide a bit of variety in how to best accomplish the missions they're already meant for.

For example, split dreads up into two different subclasses: one, rather like current ones, that is tankier, and the other one that sacrifices tank for DPS and agility to take better advantage of stargates. And for carriers, split them up into a dedicated logistics class with limited drone capability, and a dedicated fighter class with limited logistics capability.

No additional utility against subcaps, but some interesting options and choices for capital/POS warfare.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs

KnightMaire kings
The Exchange Collective
#8 - 2015-01-26 17:44:15 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
In before the move to F&I. Blink

With the recent changes to capitals (travel changes, fighter/bomber scanres nerf, etc.), I see some potential for diversifying the capital (not supercap, at least not yet) lineup. Not as a way to help them deal with subcaps mind you, but as a way to provide a bit of variety in how to best accomplish the missions they're already meant for.

For example, split dreads up into two different subclasses: one, rather like current ones, that is tankier, and the other one that sacrifices tank for DPS and agility to take better advantage of stargates. And for carriers, split them up into a dedicated logistics class with limited drone capability, and a dedicated fighter class with limited logistics capability.

No additional utility against subcaps, but some interesting options and choices for capital/POS warfare.


The Thanatos is the drone carrier and the others are role built to do different thangs the difference is that you have to skill 2 carrier skills to do it not 1 wich I apruve of its to easy to skill in to thangs now (except comand ships thare to hard for thare combat ability)

The only major drawback is the crazed notion that the inventory would look so much better if merely rearranged ONE MORE TIME.

Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2015-01-28 07:21:52 UTC
Ok, these 2 drew a kind of WTF?!? reaction.

ShahFluffers wrote:

- The reason Triage is rarely seen is because people have wised up to it. You neut it down to nothing and it basically dies.
Truth be told though... this will always be a problem for "local" repairs and "solo-type" modules. And you can't buff them without going into WTF numbers territory.



- the Thanatos and Nidhoggur get bonuses for local tank... making them more viable for Triage duty. The Chimera and Archon are fine with their resistance bonuses (it falls in line with racial flavor too).



So if Triage is rarely seen because of "wisdom", then why up these bonuses to make them viable for the triage duty the other 2 ships can do but wise folks won't use them for?

It just seems to be odd logic promoting for a rarely seen/used mode is all. Maybe something to make that mode more useful/desirable? ...
Janeway84
Insane's Asylum
#10 - 2015-01-28 15:45:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Janeway84
Imo wish they could add drone bay to moros like 400 m3 , no need for a specific drone bonus though. Smile
If they want to balance it give all dreads a drone bay perhaps.
It doesnt make sense that dreads are left out, I mean the hyperion and mega got drone bays and other battleships.
KnightMaire kings
The Exchange Collective
#11 - 2015-01-28 20:01:09 UTC
Mocam wrote:
Ok, these 2 drew a kind of WTF?!? reaction.

ShahFluffers wrote:

- The reason Triage is rarely seen is because people have wised up to it. You neut it down to nothing and it basically dies.
Truth be told though... this will always be a problem for "local" repairs and "solo-type" modules. And you can't buff them without going into WTF numbers territory.



- the Thanatos and Nidhoggur get bonuses for local tank... making them more viable for Triage duty. The Chimera and Archon are fine with their resistance bonuses (it falls in line with racial flavor too).



So if Triage is rarely seen because of "wisdom", then why up these bonuses to make them viable for the triage duty the other 2 ships can do but wise folks won't use them for?

It just seems to be odd logic promoting for a rarely seen/used mode is all. Maybe something to make that mode more useful/desirable? ...


Thare used all the time just not in big fights wh space is full of archons for that reason and small low sec fleets are some times backed up with them

The only major drawback is the crazed notion that the inventory would look so much better if merely rearranged ONE MORE TIME.