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A Message Regarding "Hyperdunking"

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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#181 - 2015-01-28 00:23:58 UTC
I have invented something fun.

I call it the Veers Belvar Seal of Disapproval.

Basically, anything that Veers disapproves of is highly likely to be a good thing for the health of the game in general.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Concord Guy's Cousin
Doomheim
#182 - 2015-01-28 00:25:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Concord Guy's Cousin
Veers Belvar wrote:
This seems wrong...another gamey tactic just like bumping, and CONCORD failing to act as a law enforcement agency would.
Both tactics have been deemed to be legitimate actions, the fact that you don't like the decisions is irrelevant in the face of the reality that CCP are quite literally the masters of this particular universe.

Go and find another windmill, preferably in some other game, to tilt at. Please take Lucas with you.

ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"

NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
Commentus Nolen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#183 - 2015-01-28 00:32:46 UTC
If I find the stash of ships the hyperdunker has stashed and they are unpiloted can i destroy them without Concord intervention?

Do I get a kill mail for destroying them?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#184 - 2015-01-28 00:33:42 UTC
Commentus Nolen wrote:
If I find the stash of ships the hyperdunker has stashed and they are unpiloted can i destroy them without Concord intervention?

Do I get a kill mail for destroying them?


The beauty of the incredibly unbalanced safety system is that you don't even have to blow yourself up to find out. Try and shoot them with green, if it works, the answer is yes.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Concord Guy's Cousin
Doomheim
#185 - 2015-01-28 00:35:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Concord Guy's Cousin
Commentus Nolen wrote:
If I find the stash of ships the hyperdunker has stashed and they are unpiloted can i destroy them without Concord intervention?

Do I get a kill mail for destroying them?
As far as I know Concord will intervene if you shoot at them, but if you can fly them you can certainly board them and steal them Pirate.

You can also target them to prevent the hyperdunker from boarding them, however if their "drop ship" is still around the pilot can do the same to prevent you from boarding and stealing them.

ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"

NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
Annette Nolen
Perkone
Caldari State
#186 - 2015-01-28 00:35:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Annette Nolen
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
You mean like how Red Frog uses multiple alts and extra contracts to shield the contents of their cargo?


Red Frog does not double-wrap and hasn't for years. Sometimes our clients do it, but our pilots should not and do not (and get yelled at if caught trying to).
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#187 - 2015-01-28 00:37:08 UTC
Annette Nolen wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
You mean like how Red Frog uses multiple alts and extra contracts to shield the contents of their cargo?


Red Frog does not double-wrap and hasn't for years. Sometimes our clients do it, but our pilots do should not and do not (and get yelled at if caught trying to).


Thank you for the correction. Intel file updated.

You guys use an alt passing system of some kind though, yes?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Annette Nolen
Perkone
Caldari State
#188 - 2015-01-28 00:38:17 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
If you play the game correctly, you are all but invincible.


Not so much. Webbing is not a guaranteed avoidance against bumping, and, once bumped, warping out to an aligned inty has... issues.
Annette Nolen
Perkone
Caldari State
#189 - 2015-01-28 00:39:08 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
You guys use an alt passing system of some kind though, yes?


Yes we use neutral haulers for wardec reasons, but always via exchange and not double-wrapped couriers. The best (historical) defense against ganking was showing everyone how not valuable our cargo is :)
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#190 - 2015-01-28 00:41:06 UTC
Annette Nolen wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
You guys use an alt passing system of some kind though, yes?


Yes we use neutral haulers for wardec reasons, but always via exchange and not double-wrapped couriers. The best (historical) defense against ganking was showing everyone how not valuable our cargo is :)


Ah, so your "face" characters pass to neutral haulers. Okay, makes sense.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Aleksi Bocharov
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#191 - 2015-01-28 00:43:46 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Aleksi Bocharov wrote:
If losing your ship means precisely zip, then why are your panties so bunched over ships being lost as targets of suicide ganks? Meaning is assigned by the players. Most players do not suicide gank because the consequences, which they find meaningful, deter them. Others have planned for the consequences and deemed them acceptable.
Most gankers gank with alts specifically to nullify all consequences. And gank ships lost mean precisely zip because they are built to be disposable.

Aleksi Bocharov wrote:
Working as intended, so sorry for you, but your original statement is that there are no consequences. There clearly are, as you just admitted - but now you're trying to qualify them as "meaningful" or not.
A consequence isn't really a consequence if it doesn't mean or affect anything...


Oh well? These are player choices, sorry dude.

Ganking is balanced and perfectly fine. Just fly smarter and don't make yourself a target.
Paranoid Loyd
#192 - 2015-01-28 00:44:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:
Commentus Nolen wrote:
If I find the stash of ships the hyperdunker has stashed and they are unpiloted can i destroy them without Concord intervention?

Do I get a kill mail for destroying them?
As far as I know Concord will intervene if you shoot at them, but if you can fly them you can certainly board them and steal them Pirate.

You can also target them to prevent the hyperdunker from boarding them, however if their "drop ship" is still around the pilot can do the same to prevent you from boarding and stealing them.

The cats also need to be dropped close to the target for hyperdunking to work, simply bumping the ship out of blaster range would have also stopped this.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Aleksi Bocharov
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#193 - 2015-01-28 00:48:11 UTC
ITT, consequences aren't really consequences unless they're unacceptable.

Source: Lucas Kell.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#194 - 2015-01-28 00:49:55 UTC
seems a bit exploity to me, but as said earlier it is much easier to disrupt than a traditional gank. As long as CCP is fine with it I'm fine with it.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Paranoid Loyd
#195 - 2015-01-28 00:55:48 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I have invented something fun.

I call it the Veers Belvar Blood & Feathers Seal of Disapproval.

Basically, anything that Veers disapproves of is highly likely to be a good thing for the health of the game in general.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Concord Guy's Cousin
Doomheim
#196 - 2015-01-28 00:57:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Concord Guy's Cousin
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:
Commentus Nolen wrote:
If I find the stash of ships the hyperdunker has stashed and they are unpiloted can i destroy them without Concord intervention?

Do I get a kill mail for destroying them?
As far as I know Concord will intervene if you shoot at them, but if you can fly them you can certainly board them and steal them Pirate.

You can also target them to prevent the hyperdunker from boarding them, however if their "drop ship" is still around the pilot can do the same to prevent you from boarding and stealing them.

The cats also need to be dropped close to the target for hyperdunking to work, simply bumping the ship out of blaster range would have also stopped this.
Shock, Horror.

Basic knowledge of game mechanics can effectively disrupt a hyperdunk. Who'd have thunk it?

ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"

NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
Paranoid Loyd
#197 - 2015-01-28 01:03:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Yeah, lets also all keep in mind, the "victim" logged off, which is also necessary to make this possible.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
d0ubl3 rainb0w
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#198 - 2015-01-28 01:31:23 UTC
hypothetical question

if someone's hyperdunking a freighter but suddenly frieghter has reps or an escort

if the ganker then deagresses and waits out his criminal timer by just bumping

if the ganker-***-bumper makes the frieghter wait for downtime, is that abuse?
Icarus Able
Refuse.Resist
#199 - 2015-01-28 01:35:32 UTC
d0ubl3 rainb0w wrote:
hypothetical question

if someone's hyperdunking a freighter but suddenly frieghter has reps or an escort

if the ganker then deagresses and waits out his criminal timer by just bumping

if the ganker-***-bumper makes the frieghter wait for downtime, is that abuse?



Persistant bumping like that would probably be deemed exploit if over a sufficient period of time
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#200 - 2015-01-28 01:44:54 UTC
d0ubl3 rainb0w wrote:

if the ganker-***-bumper makes the frieghter wait for downtime, is that abuse?


According to the GM ruling, you have to "make an effort" to move elsewhere or bumping you does not count as abuse.

And being afk doesn't count as making an effort. Nor does being logged out.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.