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A Message Regarding "Hyperdunking"

First post First post First post
Author
w1ndstrike
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#81 - 2015-01-27 20:03:11 UTC
while I agree the ruling is sound, and the tactic does not violate any rulings or evade game mechanics; as a trader this concerns me because of the implications if restraint isn't shown when using the tactic.

highsec ganking does actually contribute to the health of the game by increasing the difference in value of items in different locations, however something like this if done without restraint can have large negative impacts on the costs of doing business for traders.

so please gankers, don't overuse this, pick your targets.

the bad game design in this case looks more to be the ability to keep a freighter out of warp by bumping it continuously than it is any of the mechanics in use by the pilots actually applying damage in the gank. since there is nothing that can be done on the freighter pilot's end to combat the tactic (usually counter-bumping is next to impossible, and requires an alt)
TheInternet TweepsOnline TheInternet
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#82 - 2015-01-27 20:05:50 UTC
It's very nice that CCP Falcon cleared this up for all the confused carebears out there. I think it is safe to say that #Hyperdunking will continue for at least 1000 years.

Also, thanks for using the correct term for the tactic. I've seen other less helpful terms like Jollyjabbing being thrown around. At least now we can point to an official CCP post when people begin using the incorrect term.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#83 - 2015-01-27 20:08:06 UTC
w1ndstrike wrote:
while I agree the ruling is sound, and the tactic does not violate any rulings or evade game mechanics; as a trader this concerns me because of the implications if restraint isn't shown when using the tactic.

highsec ganking does actually contribute to the health of the game by increasing the difference in value of items in different locations, however something like this if done without restraint can have large negative impacts on the costs of doing business for traders.

so please gankers, don't overuse this, pick your targets.

They are picking their targets: they go for the easy ones. That's all you need to know to be 100% safe from non-meta ganks in highsec (meta ganks being ones that play towards something outside of the game, be it pure KB epeen or personal vengeance).

TheInternet TweepsOnline TheInternet wrote:
Also, thanks for using the correct term for the tactic. I've seen other less helpful terms like Jollyjabbing being thrown around. At least now we can point to an official CCP post when people begin using the incorrect term.
Jollyjabbing, huh? I honestly haven't heard that one but it sounds a lot better than *cough*spew*gag* “hyperdunking”. I think I'll start using that one instead. P
CCP Terminus
C C P
C C P Alliance
#84 - 2015-01-27 20:12:00 UTC
I think it's still a thing we'll be monitoring.
People are completely correct when they mention this is a game where suicide ganking and non-consentual PvP has been given the thumbs up by developers. That being said, we would still like to see a nice balance between effort and intelligence required on both sides of the coin. Making ganking too easy is not our goal, nor is it the other way around. Where that balance lies, and if hyperdunking has crossed some line, we'll have to see.
There are things we can change if needed.

@CCP_Terminus // Game Designer // Team Size Matters

Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#85 - 2015-01-27 20:12:13 UTC
To clarify- the only way this works is if someone is not at all paying attention or has logged off.

If they have such a skilled bumper that you are unable to make it to the gate nor another celestial, then you would have died no matter the method used against you.

If you want to move billions worth of cargo around without any type of support (one webber?), then you are completely at fault for taking the risk.

High-sec already has the advantage that you can hide in NPC corps that cannot be war-decced. To be fair, they should remove NPC corps (or put a ship size limit on them), and fix the "War" mechanic, and then they could nerf highsec ganking.

Crying that one out of a thousand freighters gets ganked is a joke, everyone already abuses NPC alts to move cargo around in space.
TheMeanPerson
Loot Disposal United
#86 - 2015-01-27 20:12:13 UTC  |  Edited by: TheMeanPerson
I'm going to have some fun with this hyperdunking. Twisted

ps for you devs floating around

Y U NO FIX DOUBLE WRAPPED COURIERS YET!? Cry
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#87 - 2015-01-27 20:14:26 UTC
CCP Terminus wrote:
I think it's still a thing we'll be monitoring.
People are completely correct when they mention this is a game where suicide ganking and non-consentual PvP has been given the thumbs up by developers. That being said, we would still like to see a nice balance between effort and intelligence required on both sides of the coin. Making ganking too easy is not our goal, nor is it the other way around. Where that balance lies, and if hyperdunking has crossed some line, we'll have to see.
There are things we can change if needed.

So you'll be adding some requirement for us freighter pilots to put in at least some token effort and intelligence… when? Soon? Please?!
TheInternet TweepsOnline TheInternet
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#88 - 2015-01-27 20:15:13 UTC  |  Edited by: TheInternet TweepsOnline TheInternet
CCP Terminus wrote:
I think it's still a thing we'll be monitoring.
People are completely correct when they mention this is a game where suicide ganking and non-consentual PvP has been given the thumbs up by developers. That being said, we would still like to see a nice balance between effort and intelligence required on both sides of the coin. Making ganking too easy is not our goal, nor is it the other way around. Where that balance lies, and if hyperdunking has crossed some line, we'll have to see.
There are things we can change if needed.


Hyperdunking requires more skill and coordination than most players are capable of. Or as you put it, more 'effort and intelligence'.
Herpp Derpp
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#89 - 2015-01-27 20:16:25 UTC
Bring a Nestor along to web/logi your freighter. You know you have one.
TheMeanPerson
Loot Disposal United
#90 - 2015-01-27 20:19:31 UTC
The real tragedy here is the billions of isk I gank every day from tier 1 industrials not knowing how to put a buffer tank on their haulers. This is what needs to be addressed, haulers need super buff ungankable, because ganking is bad and wrong. Blink
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#91 - 2015-01-27 20:20:23 UTC
CCP Terminus wrote:
I think it's still a thing we'll be monitoring.
People are completely correct when they mention this is a game where suicide ganking and non-consentual PvP has been given the thumbs up by developers. That being said, we would still like to see a nice balance between effort and intelligence required on both sides of the coin. Making ganking too easy is not our goal, nor is it the other way around. Where that balance lies, and if hyperdunking has crossed some line, we'll have to see.
There are things we can change if needed.


"Hyperdunking" is almost trivially easy to disrupt compared to the standard method.

The issue here is the same as it has always been: the AFK or near-AFK hauling demographic furiously defending its right to haul AFK/solo unmolested

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

CCP Terminus
C C P
C C P Alliance
#92 - 2015-01-27 20:22:22 UTC
Tippia wrote:

So you'll be adding some requirement for us freighter pilots to put in at least some token effort and intelligence… when? Soon? Please?!
I'd like to make hauling more interesting in general. No time frame on that :P

TheInternet TweepsOnline TheInternet wrote:

Hyperdunking requires more skill and coordination than most players are capable of. Or as you put it, more 'effort and intelligence'.
And we've made clear our current stance on it because of this and other factors.

@CCP_Terminus // Game Designer // Team Size Matters

Concord Guy's Cousin
Doomheim
#93 - 2015-01-27 20:22:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Concord Guy's Cousin
TheMeanPerson wrote:
The real tragedy here is the billions of isk I gank every day from tier 1 industrials not knowing how to put a buffer tank on their haulers. This is what needs to be addressed, haulers need super buff ungankable, because ganking is bad and wrong. Blink
This is why we need a sarcasm tag Lol

Some people might take it seriously Shocked

CCP Terminus wrote:
Tippia wrote:

So you'll be adding some requirement for us freighter pilots to put in at least some token effort and intelligence… when? Soon? Please?!
I'd like to make hauling more interesting in general. No time frame on that :P
Make it so

ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"

NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.

Indahmawar Fazmarai
#94 - 2015-01-27 20:24:17 UTC
CCP Terminus wrote:
I think it's still a thing we'll be monitoring.
People are completely correct when they mention this is a game where suicide ganking and non-consentual PvP has been given the thumbs up by developers. That being said, we would still like to see a nice balance between effort and intelligence required on both sides of the coin. Making ganking too easy is not our goal, nor is it the other way around. Where that balance lies, and if hyperdunking has crossed some line, we'll have to see.
There are things we can change if needed.


Just a suggestion: add MJD for Bowheads. That's about the only civil thing I can say about what your company considers worth paying for.
Janeos
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#95 - 2015-01-27 20:25:54 UTC
Thank you, CCP Falcon, for this rich harvest of tears.

Hulls for the Hull Throne, pod goo for the Pod Goo God!
Annette Nolen
Perkone
Caldari State
#96 - 2015-01-27 20:26:36 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Just a suggestion: add MJD for Bowheads. That's about the only civil thing I can say about what your company considers worth paying for.


My vote is for the warp assist module as I suggested over in the F&I forum. Requires alt/fleet assistance (so is not a solo escape), applies to more than just freighters and high-sec, and isn't even close to a 100% effective bumping counter, just balances the table a bit. Also does not require the incredibly tricky task of adding mid-slots to freighters without opening up ridiculous fitting options that probably should not exist :)
TheMeanPerson
Loot Disposal United
#97 - 2015-01-27 20:29:46 UTC
Lets be serious here guys, I hate to be the debbie downer for freighter and industrial pilots, but no matter what happens.

If you fly with something worth ganking, your going to get ganked. Just be smart, dont go afk, use a webber. OTHERWISE, you will end up like the people inside of the player hugh forehead's biography EVERY TIME. WE will FIND you. Hyperdunking or not. Twisted
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#98 - 2015-01-27 20:35:06 UTC
CCP Terminus wrote:
I think it's still a thing we'll be monitoring.
People are completely correct when they mention this is a game where suicide ganking and non-consentual PvP has been given the thumbs up by developers. That being said, we would still like to see a nice balance between effort and intelligence required on both sides of the coin. Making ganking too easy is not our goal, nor is it the other way around. Where that balance lies, and if hyperdunking has crossed some line, we'll have to see.
There are things we can change if needed.

U BALANCE HYPERDUNKUUU? /(.___.)\
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#99 - 2015-01-27 20:38:42 UTC
CCP Terminus wrote:
I think it's still a thing we'll be monitoring.
People are completely correct when they mention this is a game where suicide ganking and non-consentual PvP has been given the thumbs up by developers. That being said, we would still like to see a nice balance between effort and intelligence required on both sides of the coin. Making ganking too easy is not our goal, nor is it the other way around. Where that balance lies, and if hyperdunking has crossed some line, we'll have to see.
There are things we can change if needed.

One thing that worries me is that ganking is cheap, like really cheap. An empty freighter is killboard green by a huge margin, no matter how tanked.

The old argument against this used to be "but to gank a freighter you need a lot of players and you can't always get a lot of players organised in time". Now it doesn't. Now a gank of any size requires 3 characters.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#100 - 2015-01-27 20:40:48 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
And reopened. Please refrain from personal attacks, trolling, all that fun stuff. And circular reasoning. Thanks!

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department