Player Features and Ideas Discussion

You pointed the problem out right there, Both options force your pve or industrial chr to get attacked and you lost your stuff. So your saying your Forced to have to put your self in a force defensive position.

I'm saying a Enemy has placed himself in side your So call Controlled space you own and you have 0 Options to be Offensive. The best Defense is Offense and we don't get **** for a option on it

I want to simply Defend our space. Thats not some Absurd request.

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and no ((Mag's)) Your avoiding whats already available to you and that i answered your question. Local is a merge of what your system monitors would pick up. If someone warped into a system it has to have some effect that system monitors could pick up. So the information in local is just what you'd get from that information. You Wanna talk about unfair information then delete the killboards, that information is far more destructive than local. yeah people would record there kills but you wouldn't see every single thing that happen to someone.

If one cloaked pilot is wreaking that much havoc on your nullsec operations, I'd wager that you don't exert nearly as much control over your space as you think you do.

In order to control a space, you must be able to deny access to those who aren't welcome. How are you going about doing that? Do you have defensive camps up? Do you have combat fleets roaming in and/or near your space? Or are you just operating in a secluded spot, hoping that people don't come bother you, and calling that "control"?

Do you have a cyno inhibitor in system? If not, do you use mobile cyno inhibitors to protect your precious mining ops? Your biggest fear seems to be getting hotdropped, but there are tools at your disposal to prevent such things.


Your problem seems less to be with AFK cloaking per se and more with your inability to control your space. You could do away with cloaking in it's entirety and that problem would not be solved.

Learn to control your space, and AFK cloaking becomes a non-issue.

Well, let's see:

1. You can catch them at the gate. If you really control the space, surely people aren't free to come and go as they will, right?

2. You can catch them several gates away. Surely you aren't doing mining ops adjacent to uncontrolled or hostile space, right?

3. You can fly an escort with your mining ops. At best, your AFK cloaker is flying a recon ship, which shouldn't be too hard to handle if you really control the space.

4. If you can't spare an escort, you can fly mining ships that trade yield for durability to tank any conventional attacks long enough for help to arrive. It's almost as if CCP anticipated this and provided a pair of mining vessels that are exceptionally durable and capable of self-defense.

5. If you're worried about hotdrops, you can use cyno inhibitors. You do maintain a high enough sovereignty level to install a system-wide cyno inhibitor, right? Seems like you should if you really controlled the system.

6. Covert Ops ships get the right of first attack by design. It's the "Covert" part of "Covert Ops". That doesn't magically change just because they're flown by someone who doesn't like you in space that you claim to control. Here's a wacky idea, maybe you could use your own cloaked ships to respond to theirs when they uncloak.

EDIT: Typo. Grrr.

Nope. I'm saying that I have NEUTRALIZED the threat before it became a threat. If he kills my industrial, attacks my AFK Phoon with a ship sufficient to keep it from leaving, or attacked my "damn near Pantheon" Dominix force, he LOSES more than he could possibly kill.

That's how you beat people in EVE, out think them, not beg CCP to give you yet more tools that most of you won't use anyways.



I have taken the offensive by neutralizing whatever threat he could possible pose.

And there is no such thing as controlled space in EVE. What you want to happen would create the ability to control space, which would see already entrenched null sec groups dig in even deeper. That you would rather unbalance an entire game rather than learn how to think about and attack a problem correctly tells us all we need to know.



That you don't understand why what you want is bad is another one of those indicators. Use the tools you have NOW, then come back and complain.

You don't have any faith in your stance, that's fine.

The funny thing is, I don't avoid what's available. I use the tools CCP provide and play the game. I love the current system and see it as balanced. You on the other hand, want yet more intel and a safer sov null. But have failed to address why you should get it.

You will of course keep up with the nonsense about killboards and WH space and avoid all the discussion in regards to the mechanics involved, except the cloak.
You have no intention of a balanced approach, that is quite obvious.

But that isn't the only option and you are being disingenuous to claim otherwise. This isn't the first thread on this topic and the ways to defend yourself are well known.

The 'immunity' argument was debunked long ago. It has already been addressed. It's a two way street, therefore a none argument.

Cloaks already have counters, just not the one you want. If you want to change that, then ALL the mechanics involved need to change.

I have to "hot drop" myself into this discussion....


There are a lot of people indignant about a lot of issues here, and there are people pointlessly pounding their heads against the spaceport wall. The issue here is people inserting opinions into facts, and emotions ruling over reason... and this is true for BOTH sides of this argument.

The purpose of this discussion is, in fact, AFK cloaking. Not JUST afk cloaking in terms of sov space, but having a character, in space, invisible, with no means to track them down regardless of where or what systems you have at your disposal. Lets take this from the "bigger picture".

CCP, as a company designing games, has ALWAYS allowed for counters to any form of gameplay. The counter might just be common sense thinking or strategic planning... but it exists. Right now, as it stands, there is NOTHING to keep a player from AFK'ing in space in a cloaky ship. Any other ship, in any other space, under any other conditions is vulnerable. The question comes down to simply, is this a part of core game design that should stay that way or not? This argument is NOT about cloaky camping (the most common form of AFK cloaking)... but about actual game concepts and mechanics.

Active cloakers have many things to worry about... from warping in too close to objects and de-cloaking themselves to how vulnerable they are jumping gates.... but if you sit in one spot, there is a 0.00000000000000%chance something will happen, or that you can be tracked down.

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Personal opinion time!

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I love covert operations. I use cloakys all the time, and I have been guilty of afk cloaky camping in hostile territory. I would also support a move by CCP to make cloaky ships vulnerable to detection as WELL as a system to prevent AFK ship flying (Don't really CARE if we talk cloaky here or not)

Concepts ranging from one cloaky being able to detect another from within a 20km radius, with probes that can get you sorta close to that range... almost like fumbling blindly looking for your target.... to the destroyer concept, to just about anything you can imagine, as long as an active pilot has a chance to counter the counter to their cloaking with smart play. There needs to be a "counter" to a cloak no different than there is any other system in the game. Not because cloaking is OP, or other lame arguments, but because in this game nothing is free. No one is safe.... except for an afk pilot with a cloak, and pilots that are docked...

It really doesn't matter if you are talking about Sov Space, High Sec, Faction warfare.... someone in space should be vulnerable to something AT ALL TIMES. Even ships inside of POS's can get bombed.

I'm doing nothing of the sort.

I'm merely pointing out that if you want change, you need to take into account ALL the mechanics involved. You should not cherry pick and expect others to agree.

Your idea is not new and is not based on any form of balance. If change is required, then it should come as a package that will include Local, intel gathering, cloaks and maybe even the cyno.

Having a cloak should be the counter to being advertised in local. Why shouldnt i have a way to get behind enemy lines to conduct covert operations without sticking out like a sore thumb?



That wouldnt make it so you cant rat and make money. You would be fine in low sec and high sec. The only thing this effects is entitled null bears and you can still rat in null sec. Many people do manage to rat in null despite cloaky campers in system.



Local intel is free, omnipotent, perfect, flawless, instant, colour coordinated and provides total safety. And correct a counter does exists, afk cloaking.

glad you think something should be done about both rather than just one or that both should have their counters remain intact.