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CSM X - What are you voting for?

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Jenshae Chiroptera
#181 - 2015-01-26 18:54:22 UTC
Regarding newbies and the bloodlines.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Dradis Aulmais
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#182 - 2015-01-26 19:00:08 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
I love that my detractors are from CODE. and Marmite, it tells me I am on the right course. Lol

A few tactics I have seen recently with AFK cloakers:

- every system camped
- two cloakers, one sneaks up and tackles, the other cynos at range, they hit, score and MJD away. Counter drop lands on nothing
- AFK cloaker sits around for ages, people decide to fly some cheap stuff to make some ISK, a loan saber rushes up the systems (or logs on), warps to the cloaker at range which lands him on the targets and tackles a few ratters working together or a mining fleet. Then the cyno goes up at range for an MJD escape.

T3s under most situations can't be killed before the blop gets in. As far as I know there is also no way to jam a covert cyno with say a scrambler or neuting the cyno ship.



I oppose two of your platform issues, so I must be in code?

Dradis Aulmais, Federal Attorney Number 54896

Free The Scope Three
Jenshae Chiroptera
#183 - 2015-01-26 19:04:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Dradis Aulmais wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
I love that my detractors are from CODE. and Marmite, it tells me I am on the right course. Lol
I oppose two of your platform issues, so I must be in code?
Jen is a troll - Marmite
Jen would be a terrible CSM member - CODE.

That is essentially all they said. There was nothing to discuss. You actually make a stance Dradis, that I can try refute or negotiate with you about it.
Dradis Aulmais wrote:
Remove the cyno from everything smaller than a cruiser.
Frigates are easier to kill and disrupt the cyno they light. I would actually prefer if T3s couldn't cyno.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Samantha Achasse
Anarchy Enforcer
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#184 - 2015-01-26 19:10:51 UTC
yes this tactic i have seen in person in a system.

while i do like it for its simplicity it does hamper game play and pvp fights, they know what we deploy to fights and can counter it long before we are encountered.

it also hampers pve and mining ops, we cant mine well with good efficent ships or rat in good efficent ratting ships.

generally cloaking should use alot more cap or a fuel source.
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#185 - 2015-01-26 19:18:47 UTC
Samantha Achasse wrote:
yes this tactic i have seen in person in a system.

while i do like it for its simplicity it does hamper game play and pvp fights, they know what we deploy to fights and can counter it long before we are encountered.

it also hampers pve and mining ops, we cant mine well with good efficent ships or rat in good efficent ratting ships.

generally cloaking should use alot more cap or a fuel source.



"they know what we deploy to fights and can counter it "


Why would a small group want to go head to head with a sov holding alliance such as yourself.


"Stop moving so I can hit you!" Come on...
Jenshae Chiroptera
#186 - 2015-01-26 19:29:37 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
"they know what we deploy to fights and can counter it "
Why would a small group want to go head to head with a sov holding alliance such as yourself.
Again, I have to question your null sec knowledge.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#187 - 2015-01-26 19:40:25 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
"they know what we deploy to fights and can counter it "
Why would a small group want to go head to head with a sov holding alliance such as yourself.
Again, I have to question your null sec knowledge.


Considering I've been involved/been writing about 0.0 for the past 3 or 4 years, I think your question says more about you.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#188 - 2015-01-26 19:56:39 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
"they know what we deploy to fights and can counter it "
Why would a small group want to go head to head with a sov holding alliance such as yourself.
Again, I have to question your null sec knowledge.
Considering I've been involved/been writing about 0.0 for the past 3 or 4 years, I think your question says more about you.
Clear example pops to mind.
They had less than 20 guys in their corp and gave us hell for a long time. They knew how to uses the mechanics, (yes some multi-boxing) and their pilots effectively.

What they did can easily be achieved by 50 determined guys. Look at the recent Solar system that was reclaimed by a small group.

So again, you seem rather ignorant from my perspective.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#189 - 2015-01-26 19:58:31 UTC
Yes I'm ignorant of the carebear-want to turn Eve into a theme park-want pvp to be optional perspective.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#190 - 2015-01-26 20:10:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Yes I'm ignorant of the carebear-want to turn Eve into a theme park-want pvp to be optional perspective.
That is a cop-out
In response I direct you to this:
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
AFK cloaker:
- is perfectly safe
- has the potential to drop at any moment
- can not be evicted or hunted even in your home system.

I am looking for ways that they need to play actively to get the benefits of what they do. They shouldn't get a free lunch in our home.

Well said. An excellent example of some of the hypocrisy we see in common viewpoints about themepark gameplay. If it is wrong for PVEers to avoid PVP with no ability to be pursued, then it is wrong for PVPers to avoid PVP with no ability to be pursued.
I am trying to get Orcas and Rorquals into mining belts and have more fights.

So Seraph: Does that sounds like your typical carebear? Roll

The strangest thing of all is that there is so much anti-AFK hate for miners ....
.... and yet ...
... let us defend AFK cloaking like they want to take our air away!

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Tamoyo Hoshi
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#191 - 2015-01-26 22:14:53 UTC
About the AFK Cloak issue. I don´t think means to uncloak ships at will would be good. That goes against the idea of cloaking ships for espionage or safe transport..

On the other side, having camping pilots who just log in and cloak in some safe spot and goes away is against the idea that the game is meant to be played.

So some risk should be added for balance.

A simple solution would be to have a timer so that the ship would decloak if no orders were given to it (afk). It can be a long one(1-2 hours) and with some sort of early warning so the pilot can react to avoid decloaking.

If some structure solution would be the way, it could be something like an "particle emmiter" with a very low percentage to decloak ships in pulses. Hardly effective to decloak active ships at will but could be a threat for afk cloakers.

Just suggestions, anyway...

Of course those wouldn´t work with the new Recon ships DSCAN invisibility. But this is another issue...
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#192 - 2015-01-26 22:23:47 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Yes I'm ignorant of the carebear-want to turn Eve into a theme park-want pvp to be optional perspective.
That is a cop-out
In response I direct you to this:
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
AFK cloaker:
- is perfectly safe
- has the potential to drop at any moment
- can not be evicted or hunted even in your home system.

I am looking for ways that they need to play actively to get the benefits of what they do. They shouldn't get a free lunch in our home.

Well said. An excellent example of some of the hypocrisy we see in common viewpoints about themepark gameplay. If it is wrong for PVEers to avoid PVP with no ability to be pursued, then it is wrong for PVPers to avoid PVP with no ability to be pursued.
I am trying to get Orcas and Rorquals into mining belts and have more fights.

So Seraph: Does that sounds like your typical carebear? Roll

The strangest thing of all is that there is so much anti-AFK hate for miners ....
.... and yet ...
... let us defend AFK cloaking like they want to take our air away!



Boosts only work when ship is on grid. Bam. Solved.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#193 - 2015-01-26 23:36:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Boosts only work when ship is on grid. Bam. Solved.

So, the Orca / Rorqual stays out of rat range, keep aligning between two POSes or safe points, has a cloak and runs away as soon as a red is within 3-5 systems?
That is if people do not:
- Stop using boosters
- Stop mining all together.

You put 2 seconds thought into that post like all the others, right?
Tamoyo Hoshi wrote:
A simple solution would be to have a timer so that the ship would decloak if no orders were given to it (afk). It can be a long one(1-2 hours) and with some sort of early warning so the pilot can react to avoid decloaking.
This is probably along the sort of lines that is the best compromise, much like the fuel to cloak ideas. However, there are a lot of ways to seem like you are at the keyboard when you are not.
(Like attach a pencil to a fan and have it tap a key over and over)
Tamoyo Hoshi wrote:
If some structure solution would be the way, it could be something like an "particle emmiter" with a very low percentage to decloak ships in pulses. Hardly effective to decloak active ships at will but could be a threat for afk cloakers.
Even if you have to have someone sit on a structure and flip it on to de-cloak people while others hunt and you can only do that every 5-10 minutes per system at least it means you remove the AFK cloakers.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#194 - 2015-01-26 23:45:03 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
So, the Orca / Rorqual stays out of rat range, keep aligning between two POSes or safe points, has a cloak and runs away as soon as a red is within 3-5 systems?
That is if people do not:
- Stop using boosters
- Stop mining all together.

You put 2 seconds thought into that post like all the others, right?


Boosts don't work if you're cloaked. Are you f&$%ing serious?

So if we got rid of AFK cloakers suddenly orcas would be in belts because....?

No one is going to stop mining all together. If people stop mining, profit on mining goes up. Thus people will go mining to get that isk.

2 seconds is about twice as long as you seem to have put into your campaign.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#195 - 2015-01-27 01:18:57 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:

You put 2 seconds thought into that post like all the others, right?



I don't think he actually plays the game. It would fit in with his original troll of running for CSM only to try and dissolve it.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#196 - 2015-01-27 03:01:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Boosts don't work if you're cloaked. Are you f&$%ing serious?
You do not want to boost with red there.
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
So if we got rid of AFK cloakers suddenly orcas would be in belts because....?
You haven't read the OP.
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
No one is going to stop mining all together. If people stop mining, profit on mining goes up. Thus people will go mining to get that isk.
I would.
"To hell with it - reprocess T1 loot."
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I don't think he actually plays the game.
Not difficult to prove -
https://zkillboard.com/br/24062/
https://zkillboard.com/character/90698063/

Roll

Seraph, you are special, only hiding posts from you and Kaarous, now. I even consider Solops Crendraven's posts better reading material and less of a waste of my time.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#197 - 2015-01-27 03:06:56 UTC
1. So then what does cloaking have to do with anything? What are you even talking about?

2. You don't even know what YOU'RE talking about.

3. Of course you would because your mentality is risk averse carebear themepark wowesque.
Samantha Achasse
Anarchy Enforcer
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#198 - 2015-01-27 15:44:47 UTC
the only time i would like an rorqual on the mining belt
if as a bonus, it jams covert cynos within say 100km to 150km,

gives time to undeploy the rorq and allow it to warp / tank.

some safety from the the covert cloak afk hotdrop, hell that currently makes them pos addons.
Koz Katral
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#199 - 2015-01-27 17:37:16 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
I love that my detractors are from CODE. and Marmite, it tells me I am on the right course. Lol

A few tactics I have seen recently with AFK cloakers:

- every system camped
- two cloakers, one sneaks up and tackles, the other cynos at range, they hit, score and MJD away. Counter drop lands on nothing
- AFK cloaker sits around for ages, people decide to fly some cheap stuff to make some ISK, a loan saber rushes up the systems (or logs on), warps to the cloaker at range which lands him on the targets and tackles a few ratters working together or a mining fleet. Then the cyno goes up at range for an MJD escape.

T3s under most situations can't be killed before the blop gets in. As far as I know there is also no way to jam a covert cyno with say a scrambler or neuting the cyno ship.



"Quick everyone, lock your MJD's onto that cyno so we can make our get away! Operation dankprovifrags is complete! Lets all go back to base and talk about how we are all sociopaths irl for blowing up ratters, BLACKOPSAWAAAAAAY!"

^ How I imagine a black ops drop happens in Jenshae's head
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#200 - 2015-01-27 17:51:29 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
I am trying to get Orcas and Rorquals into mining belts and have more fights.

That's it, you're going on my list, NAO!



Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
So, the Orca / Rorqual stays out of rat range, keep aligning between two POSes or safe points, has a cloak and runs away as soon as a red is within 3-5 systems?
That is if people do not:
- Stop using boosters
- Stop mining all together.

You put 2 seconds thought into that post like all the others, right?


Boosts don't work if you're cloaked. Are you f&$%ing serious?

So if we got rid of AFK cloakers suddenly orcas would be in belts because....?

No one is going to stop mining all together. If people stop mining, profit on mining goes up. Thus people will go mining to get that isk.

2 seconds is about twice as long as you seem to have put into your campaign.

Guys, guys! Chill out for a sec. You've both spent more than 2 seconds on your posts, and I submit that your points aren't so incompatible after all.

Orca can fit a cloak to cloak up in a safe spot when enemies come in system, but it loses a high slot for that. But if ganglinks are forced to on-grid only, then Orcas will start going out into the belts. If an Orca pilot is able to get safe from danger 90% of the time or more, that's still reasonable or else it wouldn't be profitable to bring the ship out in any but the most remote parts of space. All that remains is to balance the danger vs survivability such that Orcas are getting sent out to the belts but are also getting shot down every once in a while.

Can't we just agree to agree?

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."