These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Gallente Redesign
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#41 - 2011-12-20 00:10:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Naomi Knight
Kingwood wrote:
Naomi Knight wrote:

oh sorry i missed some of your posts there are way too many anyway
compared to a vaga? hmm maybe it should be as fast as a vaga :O oh no that cant happen
why is the vaga have to be the fastest ? it has longer range,no cap guns,changeable dmg type,easier fitting vs 10 less m3 drones and a little less eft dps

"The applicable dev post is linked in this thread."
oh that 1 month ago post... yeah totally belivable just like ccp's other promises...


Do you guys even play the game or do you just have EFT open and make stuff up on the forums? I flew Shield Deimos before Crucible and I had no problems engaging Vagas and Cynabals with it.

only eft but at least we use the newest version not the 2 years old one you and liang do
eft eft ftw

btw why should i pvp when all of them is the same due to matar and to some extend amarr dominance
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#42 - 2011-12-20 00:17:14 UTC
Naomi Knight wrote:
Kingwood wrote:
Naomi Knight wrote:

oh sorry i missed some of your posts there are way too many anyway
compared to a vaga? hmm maybe it should be as fast as a vaga :O oh no that cant happen
why is the vaga have to be the fastest ? it has longer range,no cap guns,changeable dmg type,easier fitting vs 10 less m3 drones and a little less eft dps

"The applicable dev post is linked in this thread."
oh that 1 month ago post... yeah totally belivable just like ccp's other promises...


Do you guys even play the game or do you just have EFT open and make stuff up on the forums? I flew Shield Deimos before Crucible and I had no problems engaging Vagas and Cynabals with it.

only eft but at least we use the newest version not the 2 years old one you and liang do
eft eft ftw

btw why should i pvp when all of them is the same due to matar and to some extend amarr dominance


The funny thing is that unless a boost is way over the top, its going to take some time before people accept a new "balanced" reality. I'm not totally sold that there won't need to be some additional tweaking, but overall the changes were a VERY large step in the right direction.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#43 - 2011-12-20 00:19:48 UTC
totally , it was a complet overbuff , so hybrids needs a nerf now
why ccp always do this :=
Dorian Tormak
RBON United
#44 - 2011-12-20 03:19:05 UTC
Light Neutron Blaster II : 9 PG, 18 CPU.

200mm Autocannon II : 4 PG, 9 CPU.

Look at that and tell me hybrids are not gimped to death! And I hear it only gets worse the bigger the ships get.

Holy Satanic Christ! This is a Goddamn Signature!
Goose99
#45 - 2011-12-20 03:30:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Goose99
Liang Nuren wrote:
Naomi Knight wrote:
Kingwood wrote:
Naomi Knight wrote:

oh sorry i missed some of your posts there are way too many anyway
compared to a vaga? hmm maybe it should be as fast as a vaga :O oh no that cant happen
why is the vaga have to be the fastest ? it has longer range,no cap guns,changeable dmg type,easier fitting vs 10 less m3 drones and a little less eft dps

"The applicable dev post is linked in this thread."
oh that 1 month ago post... yeah totally belivable just like ccp's other promises...


Do you guys even play the game or do you just have EFT open and make stuff up on the forums? I flew Shield Deimos before Crucible and I had no problems engaging Vagas and Cynabals with it.

only eft but at least we use the newest version not the 2 years old one you and liang do
eft eft ftw

btw why should i pvp when all of them is the same due to matar and to some extend amarr dominance


The funny thing is that unless a boost is way over the top, its going to take some time before people accept a new "balanced" reality. I'm not totally sold that there won't need to be some additional tweaking, but overall the changes were a VERY large step in the right direction.

-Liang


What balance? And as for diemost vs vega, 2km/s vs 3km/s is a 50% difference. You don't need EFT to figure that out, it's obvious enough, just gotta undock.Roll

For a blaster boat, you're either faster than Winmatar counterpart or you're slower. If slower, you're screwed. How much slower makes little difference. If faster, it depends on how much faster. If you can catch up soon enough to win the dps race, you win, otherwise you lose. Start at Winmatar speed, the question should be how much faster, not if it should be faster.

Dorian Tormak wrote:
Light Neutron Blaster II : 9 PG, 18 CPU.

200mm Autocannon II : 4 PG, 9 CPU.

Look at that and tell me hybrids are not gimped to death! And I hear it only gets worse the bigger the ships get.


Fitting helps making AC what it is, but hardly the main problem.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#46 - 2011-12-20 05:05:33 UTC
Goose99 wrote:

What balance? And as for diemost vs vega, 2km/s vs 3km/s is a 50% difference. You don't need EFT to figure that out, it's obvious enough, just gotta undock.Roll

For a blaster boat, you're either faster than Winmatar counterpart or you're slower. If slower, you're screwed. How much slower makes little difference. If faster, it depends on how much faster. If you can catch up soon enough to win the dps race, you win, otherwise you lose. Start at Winmatar speed, the question should be how much faster, not if it should be faster.


This is a great theory but unfortunately it doesn't really work out in real PVP. The core problem is that the Vaga isn't always sitting there with its MWD on, and its not always MWDing straight away from the Deimos. Its been shown time and again how a slower ship can catch and kill a faster one. Its one of the main lessons of the nano age was that agility is just about as important as actual top speed.

Quote:

Dorian Tormak wrote:
Light Neutron Blaster II : 9 PG, 18 CPU.

200mm Autocannon II : 4 PG, 9 CPU.

Look at that and tell me hybrids are not gimped to death! And I hear it only gets worse the bigger the ships get.


Fitting helps making AC what it is, but hardly the main problem.


Neutron IIs put out a lot more DPS than 200mm AC IIs.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Goose99
#47 - 2011-12-20 05:22:43 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Goose99 wrote:

What balance? And as for diemost vs vega, 2km/s vs 3km/s is a 50% difference. You don't need EFT to figure that out, it's obvious enough, just gotta undock.Roll

For a blaster boat, you're either faster than Winmatar counterpart or you're slower. If slower, you're screwed. How much slower makes little difference. If faster, it depends on how much faster. If you can catch up soon enough to win the dps race, you win, otherwise you lose. Start at Winmatar speed, the question should be how much faster, not if it should be faster.


This is a great theory but unfortunately it doesn't really work out in real PVP. The core problem is that the Vaga isn't always sitting there with its MWD on, and its not always MWDing straight away from the Deimos. Its been shown time and again how a slower ship can catch and kill a faster one. Its one of the main lessons of the nano age was that agility is just about as important as actual top speed.

Quote:

Dorian Tormak wrote:
Light Neutron Blaster II : 9 PG, 18 CPU.

200mm Autocannon II : 4 PG, 9 CPU.

Look at that and tell me hybrids are not gimped to death! And I hear it only gets worse the bigger the ships get.


Fitting helps making AC what it is, but hardly the main problem.


Neutron IIs put out a lot more DPS than 200mm AC IIs.

-Liang


Vega has more agility and faster acceleration too, just a reminder. Or did you mean the Vega pilot should just... keep mwd off, sit still until Diemost is on top? Maybe he can keep his guns off too.Lol

When you're 50% slower than your opponent, plus accelerate and turn slower, you don't catch up. Even if your opponent makes a mistake, there's plenty of room for correction.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#48 - 2011-12-20 05:56:38 UTC
Goose99 wrote:

Vega has more agility and faster acceleration too, just a reminder. Or did you mean the Vega pilot should just... keep mwd off, sit still until Diemost is on top? Maybe he can keep his guns off too.Lol

When you're 50% slower than your opponent, plus accelerate and turn slower, you don't catch up. Even if your opponent makes a mistake, there's plenty of room for correction.


This did not happen: https://www.pandemic-legion.com/killboard/view_kill.php?id=459385 - if you think you can do better, you should bring a Vagabond to Amamake and show us. :)

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Mr Hyde113
#49 - 2011-12-20 08:38:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Hyde113
Winmatar have had it too easy for far too long. Yes there are exceptions like the one above, where piloting error/greed on the part of the Winmatar can cause a rare loss to Gallente in a 1v1 situation.


The problem of closing range is the biggest issue for Gallente. This can be tackled in a number of ways without trying to boost blasters into the mid range gun category.


> Revise the Armour Rig Penalty (new penalty on par with the shield rig penalty in terms to its effect on combat)

>Revise Bonuses on Gallente Blaster Boats (Scram Range Bonuses? Web Range? MWD Speed/Thrust? Mass reduction/level? Web drone bonuses?)

>Revise MWDs (cap consumption, fitting reqs, penalties ect)

The goal is to create a fight scenario where both the Gallente and Winmatar pilot must activley control their range and their modules in order to win the fight. The battle cannot purley be in the control of the kity-shield-speed Winmatar every time. When Gallente pilots go in, they are committing to the fight to a certain extent, which skews the risk factor against them since the Winmatar always have the option of running away.

I imagine this hinging on the management of overheated modules, which should be one of the finer points of pvp skill in this matchup.

Lets bring some balls back to PVP and cut the excuse making for the kiting-noobs who have had it too easy.
ElCholo
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#50 - 2011-12-20 08:55:32 UTC
I like how all "Gallente need buff" whine threads always come down to "We want Minmatar speed and fitting but to still keep our significantly larger tanks and higher dps." Like any sane dev is going to do such a thing.
Mr Hyde113
#51 - 2011-12-20 09:01:51 UTC
Who asked for Minmatar speed and fitting?

Blasters can be left as they are, but without a platform capable of bringing them into their effective range, they are USELESS.

But I guess the potential threat to minmatar pvp dominance would be too much for all the pilots who just let the superiority of their race win all the battles for them. Imagine if you actually had to manage your range, take damage, and god forbid commit to a fight!

No DEV in their right mind would re-introduce skill and cajones back into pvp, no way.
ElCholo
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#52 - 2011-12-20 09:49:02 UTC
Mr Hyde113 wrote:
Who asked for Minmatar speed and fitting?

Blasters can be left as they are, but without a platform capable of bringing them into their effective range, they are USELESS.

But I guess the potential threat to minmatar pvp dominance would be too much for all the pilots who just let the superiority of their race win all the battles for them. Imagine if you actually had to manage your range, take damage, and god forbid commit to a fight!

No DEV in their right mind would re-introduce skill and cajones back into pvp, no way.



It looks like you have flown a lot of Amarr this month.... and nothing 6 months or so prior. Why not get used to the changes before bitching? Or try flying those ships you are bitching about and learn how wrong you are. :)
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2011-12-20 11:04:42 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:


Neutron IIs put out a lot more DPS than 200mm AC IIs.

-Liang


Tracks better too Twisted
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#54 - 2011-12-20 11:10:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Mfume Apocal
Naomi Knight wrote:

def the imba matar def more pls , maybe you can deceive some noob pve pilots who never used these ships , but 99% of us know that vaga is just broken compared to a deimos

btw go look at those projectile ammos there will be an exam for matard militia about their bonuses go noob go o/


You actually didn't realize one of the Vagabond's four bonuses was ship speed.

lol

Naomi Knight wrote:
btw why should i pvp when all of them is the same due to matar and to some extend amarr dominance


because maybe one day you'll be good enough to not lose a T3 to a pair of t1 cruisers and sentries rofl
Norris Packard
Horde Vanguard.
Pandemic Horde
#55 - 2011-12-20 12:25:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Norris Packard
Misato Katsuragi wrote:
The sad thing is when most players clicked on this thread, they already knew what I am referring too. Gallente warfare philosophy as it stands, is just not possible with its current ship designs and weapon systems. I started playing eve back in 2003 and always had the understanding that gallente were the up in your face, hard hitting faction. Able to take extremes amount of damage while closing with their targets in preperation to take them out in a few hits. Currently, their ships are too slow, can't take a lot of damage, and their weapons can't reach their targets. In general they are a confused warfare philosophy.

Issues related to Gallente:

Blaster range and damage. (Hybrids in general, draw backs of lasers and projectiles but you can't select damage type!?)Still bad tracking and range, and still medicore damage.

Information Warfare. This is so far out of place I don't even know where to begin. CCP knows its broken but doesn't know how to fix it. I'm going to add the EOS in here as well.

Webs. So the fastest race in eve gets web bonuses, but the second fastest gets warp disruption. Really? Give gallente ships the web bonus and the minmatar ships warp disruption bonuses. Giving web range bonuses to the dedicated blaster ships could fix the problem. Back in the day a thorax standard build always had a web.

Armor. How I just love the repping bonus.... so not only do I have to power my guns but I also have to power my armor tank, that repairs at the end of its cycle and my AB/MWD. Like another thread stated why do gal have to be just armor.

Speed. Not fast enough, and still a lot of mass to move around. Gallente ships have never felt nimble. Its like a jet engine strapped to a tank. You can't corner in those needed high velocity blaster orbits.

I'm sure there some other issues out there, but these are just a few I have seen. Gallente were once an effective race, now they are the bastard child of Eve.

OK EOS fix: Remove drone bay bonus, just stupid to begin with... Lower bandwith to 50, add a 10% drone damage bonus. Ugh, was that so hard. Sorry just had to put that out there.


1) Blaster range is what it should be, terrible. Blaster damage is not what it should be, blasters need to get a huge boost in damage to make it worth dealing with the terrible range issues,

2) Eos fix: make it the Covert Recon Fleet Command ship. Remove the drone bonus boost its base drone bay to 150 or 200m3 and give it a cloaking bonus (Covert might be too powerful but would be nice to travel with Covert Recon Gangs). Makes the crappy info links not quite as bad and the Eos could also utilize other command modules in a niche fashion taking them with a bridged fleet.

3) Scrambler bonus is really nice and should be left alone.

4) Both Armour Repping bonus and Shield Repping bonus are under-powered they either need to be boosted to a higher percentage or maybe even replaced with another bonus (10% to HP values per level maybe?). Makes them different from the 5% resistance bonus while also being an EHP boosting attribute for fleets making them more suitable for large scale engagements.

5) Speed is a tricky issue. Minmatar should be the fastest race and able to kite but they should be the fastest under propulsion not base speed. Gallente ships should be fastest base speed and super agile but with prop mods on only second fastest race. This would make them the fastest race under tackle conditions where they fight but keeps Minmatar's edge with speed. And making Minmatar slower when they are not MWDing means that scrambler range bonus is so much better now too.
Cathy Drall
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#56 - 2011-12-20 12:32:35 UTC
Misato Katsuragi wrote:
The sad thing is when most players clicked on this thread, they already knew what I am referring to.

Oh .. I thought it was about them being so ugly Lol
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2011-12-20 12:42:09 UTC
Norris Packard wrote:


5) Speed is a tricky issue. Minmatar should be the fastest race and able to kite but they should be the fastest under propulsion not base speed. Gallente ships should be fastest base speed and super agile but with prop mods on only second fastest race. This would make them the fastest race under tackle conditions where they fight but keeps Minmatar's edge with speed. And making Minmatar slower when they are not MWDing means that scrambler range bonus is so much better now too.



Matar should be the most agile race.

Increase the base speeds of Gallente but leave the agility as is, this way you actually have options. If matar are as fast (armor vs shield tank) but far more agile, this allows them to keep their kiting roll. They just have to actually work for it (no more setting orbits at 20km and taking a nap) because with superior agility the no other race will be able to turn with them.

This also allows Gallente to use their native tank, because loosing 10% speed to frigging RESISTANCE rigs sucks....or going glass cannon and paying for tank with raw damage and damage application (for a change).

Not to mention, seriously Myrmidon 125MB bandwith...meow...its not fast its tank bonus doesn't scale at all, and its damage application is crap....leave the bay at the size it is now, and uncork the bandwidth. If you have to brick-in-space the damn thing at least allow it real damage at range. It would only be able to carry a set of heavies and a set of lights with its drone bay, and most battlecruisers can outrun heavy drones.
Jeremy Ironforge
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2011-12-20 13:27:39 UTC
Daredevil seems to be to the excellent manifestation of what Gallente should be.

1) Hull specific bonus to the Hybrids(although OP in that case).

2) Web bonus which literally cripples the opponent so you could keep the distance.

3) Good speed(not the best since we have Dramiel) to be able to engage and disengage at will.

Bigger hulls could also use more PG for Armor Reps + Capacitor Booster combo.
Kodama Ikari
Thragon
#59 - 2011-12-20 14:05:52 UTC
i'm all for buffing gallente, but this thread is whiny.

Also the idea that gal ships have to armor tank is just completely incorrect.

Some first-hand PI tips
Rel'k Bloodlor
Federation Front Line Report
Federation Front Line
#60 - 2011-12-20 14:18:14 UTC
I think Mimatar should give up some agility, the Gallente should get a lot more. Speed is to strong of a feature IMHO to leave it all to one race, Mimitar can be fastest on grid, Gallente should be fastest to and off it. I fly with a lot of Gallente pilots and they tend to not even bother with slow boating/MWDing/AFing to the target. they get some one to grab a target and they warp pile in, this fits there "brawler/duelist" style and an agility increase would let them bounce in and out of fights quicker letting other Gallene tactics have a chance to be used (active tanking would be way better if you could quickly get out heal up with your repair amount bonuses and back in, and dampers would be so-good if you bounce to a far on grid and can keep them from locking you at range well you regroup and slowing there lock time once you bounce back in). As it is now no race calls this style of combat theirs, and of all the race pair ups this style feels organic to them, as bouncing in and out helps the most against missiles and ECM as the warp breaks the lock/ends the effect/makes missiles go all drunk like. The elegance and coordinating style of this tactic just feels so Gallente. Also I hate Mimatar and just want to nurf there already over sized piece of the combat pie.

I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats.