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AFK Cloaking™: Ideas, Discussion, and Proposals

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Taku Akachi
Perkone
Caldari State
#641 - 2015-01-26 18:22:06 UTC
Everything should has a countermeasure
But AFK cloaking is not
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#642 - 2015-01-26 18:25:45 UTC
Roxanne Quall wrote:



The Cloaked player go's afk for a few days people come out and when he gets around to it he uses the complacency to get a easy kill cyno'ing in 10 of his buddy's. So really the PvE has tio wait and watch while the pvp can strike when ever the opportunity comes up. So you waste days and days of a corps time for your 15 min of glory that the PvE has no idea when that is. So your wrong.


There it is again, that falsehood that this is a PVE vs PVP thing and that the PVP player is in control, the poor pve player just has to dock up.

The reality is that you CHOOSE to dock up and hide. Then you choose to come here and ask CCP to play the game for you.

This is what I choose:

[Badger, Fighter Ratting]
Damage Control II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II

'Cetus' ECM Shockwave I
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 150
Experimental 10MN Afterburner I

Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I



[Typhoon, F you AFKguy]
Internal Force Field Array I
Warp Core Stabilizer I
Warp Core Stabilizer I
Warp Core Stabilizer I
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Large Micro Jump Drive
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
'Copasetic' Particle Field Acceleration
Medium Clarity Ward Booster I

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Nova Auto-Targeting Cruise Missile I
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Nova Auto-Targeting Cruise Missile I
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Nova Auto-Targeting Cruise Missile I
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Nova Auto-Targeting Cruise Missile I
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Nova Auto-Targeting Cruise Missile I
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Nova Auto-Targeting Cruise Missile I
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Large Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I

Warrior II x5
Bouncer II x4
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#643 - 2015-01-26 18:26:38 UTC
Roxanne Quall wrote:
I know people are PvP'ing all they want on there main and has alts logged in cloaked. Most eve players have at least 2 accounts if not more.

And you Net profit illustration forgets to point out that the pve really doesn't have any "safe period" because you could cyno at any time so there is no safe pve period.

If you look into the concept detecting cloak in some fashion is possible and would make sense in real life terms.

If your looking for PvP you should love the idea of PvE docking up and trying to engage you PvP


I'm a pve player, Im looking for my next Blood Raider Naval Shipyard.
Roxanne Quall
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#644 - 2015-01-26 18:31:24 UTC
You still will not answer my question. How it is such a bad thing to have people hunting eachother? Why can;t the hunter be hunted? Thats my point. It's basic, and in all syfy you see some kinda counter to cloaked ships. It's nothing thats not already out there. all eve's stuff stole from syfy.

Roxanne Quall wrote:
Whats So Wrong with a Cloaked pilot Having to be just as proactive as the PvE? In another post i said your like the pot calling the kettle black because you say the Carebears are crying they wanna feel safe waa waaa but then your the one saying no no don't take my trolling tool away don't make me have to have any skill i wanna sit around not paying attention to anything because i got my cloak on.

There should be some skill to the cloaked pilot.

I quoted Terms from Star Trek showing that the idea that a cloaked ship is absolutely not able to be semi detected in some way is absurd.

Allowing Sov Owners to put up like " quantum beacons " that you could perform " metaphysic sweep's" to determine a general location of 20-50KM from a cloaked ship. Only able to be re-used after like a 30 Min cool down Allowing said alliance to warp and perform a physical search op?

Would make it still able to gather Intel and be undetected as to exactly where it's at it would just be a round-about location and would set the regular cloak apart of the covert-ops even more

With the game mechanics the way it is in you would be moving at a much faster travel speed with covert-ops so you should have a very good chance of not being found. You would see everyone else around you and be moving away. Also Black-op BS's would be super effective with the speed boosts.

I don't see any Dev guiding the discussion which would be a huge help to this issue. Helping advance the ideas rather than a lot of them buried under many pages of posts....
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#645 - 2015-01-26 18:34:56 UTC
Roxanne Quall wrote:
I know people are PvP'ing all they want on there main and has alts logged in cloaked. Most eve players have at least 2 accounts if not more.

And you Net profit illustration forgets to point out that the pve really doesn't have any "safe period" because you could cyno at any time so there is no safe pve period.

If you look into the concept detecting cloak in some fashion is possible and would make sense in real life terms.

If your looking for PvP you should love the idea of PvE docking up and trying to engage you PvP

Whoa there Nellie.... (an old expression, I am not really calling you Nellie)

First, I am the guy sitting and mining, more often than not.

As to having two accounts or more, you are casually ignoring that these accounts require hardware, as well as an ISP to connect with. These things are not free, much less that account itself.
It is not being plexed from it's own activities, simply sitting there under a cloak all this time.

As to the expectation that the PvE player like myself has no safe period, you are demonstrating again the belief that the cloaked person is not truly AFK, or else such a threat would be diminished.

As to detecting cloaking making sense in real life terms, you are stating an opinion with this. Aside from real world analogies which do not necessarily relate to EVE, there exists no proof of such I am aware of.

As to the silly notion of the cloaked player being desperate for PvP, and welcoming any charitable outlet offered by the generous PvE player... this is a joke, by the sound of it.
The cloaked player could have simply grabbed his suspected buddies, and fought a roam, or gate camp, and saved countless hours in the process.
Suggesting they would go to such time and effort, only to settle for something they could easily have otherwise, is not something that sounds serious.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Roxanne Quall
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#646 - 2015-01-26 18:37:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Roxanne Quall
You can run many accounts you own on 1 computer.... Your acting like EVE is perfect and no one has any right to change anything it's in STONE!
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#647 - 2015-01-26 18:49:47 UTC
Roxanne Quall wrote:
You can run many accounts you own on 1 computer.... Your acting like EVE is perfect and no one has any right to change anything it's in STONE!


Nope. Telling you that CHANGE must be for a good reason, not "wahh, the bald guy on Star Trek can do it" or "I'm to scared to use the tools the game already has, CCP fight my battles for me".

I don't need CCP's help to counter "afk cloakers" and neither do you.
Roxanne Quall
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#648 - 2015-01-26 19:04:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Roxanne Quall
The Change would be to make it more risk more reward and no one is suppose to feel safe when they undock right? I keep hearing from you more and more, that your wana keep your carebear tactics and don't wana have to worry about people looking for you. This idea that a few have come up with, i'm going to keep at the front of the post so people can see it without you burring it. And it has to do with what eve's background was biased on syfy. A cloak would give off some effect to the space around it, there should be a way to zero in on a area you can go and search. It wouldn't be able to be used over and over so your just going have to evade every time it cycles to be used again. This should be a perfect solution to this issue and give more usefulness to sov.


Whats So Wrong with a Cloaked pilot Having to be just as proactive as the PvE? In another post i said your like the pot calling the kettle black because you say the Carebears are crying they wanna feel safe waa waaa but then your the one saying no no don't take my trolling tool away don't make me have to have any skill i wanna sit around not paying attention to anything because i got my cloak on.

There should be some skill to the cloaked pilot.

I quoted Terms from Star Trek showing that the idea that a cloaked ship is absolutely not able to be semi detected in some way is absurd.

Allowing Sov Owners to put up like " quantum beacons " that you could perform " metaphysic sweep's" to determine a general location of 20-50KM from a cloaked ship. Only able to be re-used after like a 30 Min cool down Allowing said alliance to warp and perform a physical search op?

Would make it still able to gather Intel and be undetected as to exactly where it's at it would just be a round-about location and would set the regular cloak apart of the covert-ops even more

With the game mechanics the way it is in you would be moving at a much faster travel speed with covert-ops so you should have a very good chance of not being found. You would see everyone else around you and be moving away. Also Black-op BS's would be super effective with the speed boosts.

I don't see any Dev guiding the discussion which would be a huge help to this issue. Helping advance the ideas rather than a lot of them buried under many pages of posts....
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#649 - 2015-01-26 19:54:53 UTC
Taku Akachi wrote:
Everything should has a countermeasure
But AFK cloaking is not

Please, point me to the in-game effect caused by AFK cloaking that requires a counter.

The only effect AFK cloaking has is on the perception of safety due to a friendly local list. How exactly do you counter human psychology?

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Roxanne Quall
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#650 - 2015-01-26 20:08:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Roxanne Quall
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Taku Akachi wrote:
Everything should has a countermeasure
But AFK cloaking is not

Please, point me to the in-game effect caused by AFK cloaking that requires a counter.

The only effect AFK cloaking has is on the perception of safety due to a friendly local list. How exactly do you counter human psychology?


You know good and well thats not the case. Why do people dock? why do people log? Because that guy has a cyno and will pop it on you as soon as he finds the chance while your pve'ing, he doesn't want a real fight .

Don't act like they just sit there and do nothing.


There was nothing wrong with mining AFK then? No it was dumb and so they added Rats to stop them from doing that, this is just as dumb and broken.

Having a mechanic that doesn't give away the cloaked guy but makes it take effort and skill to find them , Thats a perfect solution.
Roxanne Quall
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#651 - 2015-01-26 20:11:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Roxanne Quall
Dubble post accident
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#652 - 2015-01-26 20:12:28 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Taku Akachi wrote:
Everything should has a countermeasure
But AFK cloaking is not

Please, point me to the in-game effect caused by AFK cloaking that requires a counter.

The only effect AFK cloaking has is on the perception of safety due to a friendly local list. How exactly do you counter human psychology?


This. Cloaked ships can be countered simply - there is a counter to them. If you were in a wormhole you would never of known that the guy was in there - period. Instead people are opting to not prepare, opting not to risk anything - by either docking up or lemming their ships into cloaked campers. The cloakers hold the initiative, once they engage they can then be trapped quite easily.

The counter is there - its just not the one you want and choose not to use. In regards to AFK cloakers? There is no issue. They are essentially docked players who are not harming you. They are off AFK doing something else. Also, all those gate cams watching Highsec -> Lowsec gates would cease to exist.
Roxanne Quall
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#653 - 2015-01-26 20:19:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Roxanne Quall
The whole issue is about them Doing something. Of course there doing something there waiting till they can get a easy kill to cyno on.

No ones addressing why the cloaker has some immunity from threat. Why do you get that right somehow that you should be immune from anything?

Why do they fix AFK mining but not work on the cloaking issue.

Roxanne Quall wrote:
Whats So Wrong with a Cloaked pilot Having to be just as proactive as the PvE? In another post i said your like the pot calling the kettle black because you say the Carebears are crying they wanna feel safe waa waaa but then your the one saying no no don't take my trolling tool away don't make me have to have any skill i wanna sit around not paying attention to anything because i got my cloak on.

There should be some skill to the cloaked pilot.

I quoted Terms from Star Trek showing that the idea that a cloaked ship is absolutely not able to be semi detected in some way is absurd.

Allowing Sov Owners to put up like " quantum beacons " that you could perform " metaphysic sweep's" to determine a general location of 20-50KM from a cloaked ship. Only able to be re-used after like a 30 Min cool down Allowing said alliance to warp and perform a physical search op?

Would make it still able to gather Intel and be undetected as to exactly where it's at it would just be a round-about location and would set the regular cloak apart of the covert-ops even more

With the game mechanics the way it is in you would be moving at a much faster travel speed with covert-ops so you should have a very good chance of not being found. You would see everyone else around you and be moving away. Also Black-op BS's would be super effective with the speed boosts.

I don't see any Dev guiding the discussion which would be a huge help to this issue. Helping advance the ideas rather than a lot of them buried under many pages of posts....
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#654 - 2015-01-26 20:44:47 UTC
Roxanne Quall wrote:
The whole issue is about them Doing something. Of course there doing something there waiting till they can get a easy kill to cyno on.

No ones addressing why the cloaker has some immunity from threat. Why do you get that right somehow that you should be immune from anything?

Why do they fix AFK mining but not work on the cloaking issue.


Erm? Who fixed afk mining? CCP hasn't touch afk mining. You can still afk mine anywhere.

The afk cloaker isn't immune from threat in the same way a docked person is. And focusing on the danger the afk cloaker is in (which is the only thing the anti-afk cloaker people have to hang their hats on) is the wrong thing to do. It's basically jealousy, and jealousy isn't a reason for any changes.

The problem here is the mentality of the anti-afk crowd, not some problem with the game's mechanics. I learned how to deal with AFK cloakers a long time ago. Anti-afk cloaker people refuse to do so.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#655 - 2015-01-26 20:52:40 UTC
Roxanne Quall wrote:
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Taku Akachi wrote:
Everything should has a countermeasure
But AFK cloaking is not

Please, point me to the in-game effect caused by AFK cloaking that requires a counter.

The only effect AFK cloaking has is on the perception of safety due to a friendly local list. How exactly do you counter human psychology?


You know good and well thats not the case. Why do people dock? why do people log? Because that guy has a cyno and will pop it on you as soon as he finds the chance while your pve'ing, he doesn't want a real fight .

Don't act like they just sit there and do nothing.
They dock up or log off because of the perceived threat that they do not want to, or feel they cannot, engage successfully. I don't think that we disagree on this point.

I know good and well that this is what people think. And I know good and well that some players will take advantage of this to shut down nullsec ratting systems for hours, if not days, on end. (I know because I used to do it.) But, at the end of the day, all the cloaked player is doing is presenting the other players in local with a situation to react to. How they choose to react to it is entirely up to them. This is where we differ.

Roxanne Quall wrote:
There was nothing wrong with mining AFK then? No it was dumb and so they added Rats to stop them from doing that, this is just as dumb and broken.

Having a mechanic that doesn't give away the cloaked guy but makes it take effort and skill to find them , Thats a perfect solution.
AFK mining is a different beast. AFK miners are actually performing some sort of game action, interacting with their environment, and/or generating income. AFK cloakers don't do any of those things. They can't drop a cyno, scram you, kill you, or even launch scan probes without decloaking first. If you could actually do anything while cloaked, I would say that you have a point. But you can't, so you don't.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Roxanne Quall
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#656 - 2015-01-26 20:55:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Roxanne Quall
React? how are we to react if you can;t do a damn thing about it. thats my whole point. And you can scan cloaked up and find people cloaked up warp to them

A Cloaker faces no threat just same as docked. And it has nothing to do with jealousness (jealous of what?)

Being able to sit a chr in a system and not have any worries while your afk/at work/ pvp with main so that you can then cyno your friends in on the pve who got used to your chr you haven't played in 30 min to 1 day ago.

Thats Broken


Theres no reason you should be able to do that




Whats So Wrong with a Cloaked pilot Having to be just as proactive as the PvE? In another post i said your like the pot calling the kettle black because you say the Carebears are crying they wanna feel safe waa waaa but then your the one saying no no don't take my trolling tool away don't make me have to have any skill i wanna sit around not paying attention to anything because i got my cloak on.

There should be some skill to the cloaked pilot.

I quoted Terms from Star Trek showing that the idea that a cloaked ship is absolutely not able to be semi detected in some way is absurd.

Allowing Sov Owners to put up like " quantum beacons " that you could perform " metaphysic sweep's" to determine a general location of 20-50KM from a cloaked ship. Only able to be re-used after like a 30 Min cool down Allowing said alliance to warp and perform a physical search op?

Would make it still able to gather Intel and be undetected as to exactly where it's at it would just be a round-about location and would set the regular cloak apart of the covert-ops even more

With the game mechanics the way it is in you would be moving at a much faster travel speed with covert-ops so you should have a very good chance of not being found. You would see everyone else around you and be moving away. Also Black-op BS's would be super effective with the speed boosts.

I don't see any Dev guiding the discussion which would be a huge help to this issue. Helping advance the ideas rather than a lot of them buried under many pages of posts.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#657 - 2015-01-26 21:07:50 UTC
Roxanne Quall wrote:
A Cloaker faces no threat just same as docked.
A cloaker is also unable to activate any modules or in any way interact with the environment, just the same as someone who is docked. I fail to see the problem here.

Roxanne Quall wrote:
Being able to sit a chr in a system and not have any worries while your afk/at work/ pvp with main so that you can then cyno your friends in on the pve who got used to your chr you haven't played in 30 min to 1 day ago.
You keep repeating the precise reason why AFK does not need to be adjusted. You can't adjust people's reactions to a situation. Docking up in response to someone cloaked in local is a choice, not a game mechanic.

Roxanne Quall wrote:
Theres no reason you should be able to do that
I have yet to see a valid reason why you should not be able to either. Everything you are saying is the result of a perception, not actual game mechanics. AFK cloakers, by their very definition, are not at their keyboard and cannot hurt you. Non-AFK cloakers, while at keyboard and at least able to move, cannot hut you without first decloaking.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Roxanne Quall
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#658 - 2015-01-26 21:11:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Roxanne Quall
Allowing someone to perma cloak is a game mechanic thats the point.

you can decloake and launch probes cloak back up or you can have them out and use them later.

Your not making any points.

Why does a cloaked person deserve 100% safety?
Sayod Physulem
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#659 - 2015-01-26 21:17:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Sayod Physulem
Roxanne Quall wrote:
The whole issue is about them Doing something. Of course there doing something there waiting till they can get a easy kill to cyno on.

No ones addressing why the cloaker has some immunity from threat. Why do you get that right somehow that you should be immune from anything?

Why do they fix AFK mining but not work on the cloaking issue.


No ones addressing why the stationer has some immunity from threat. Why do you get that right somehow that you should be immune from anything?

Roxanne Quall wrote:
no one is suppose to feel safe when they undock right?


Why should stations provide safety but cloaks not?
The attacker shouldn't avoid the defender by cloaking.
The defender shouldn't avoid the attacker by docking up.

So where is the counter to docking?

There should be a counter to everything - a counter to SOV holding maybe?

It is not about counters - there is no counter to concord, there is no counter to marketorders, no counter to docking up, no counter to local, ...
And the cloak is a counter to a lot of things - against Gate Camps for example - what would you do without a cloak to avoid one as a solo player?
It is a counter against larger groups. What else would counter a larger group?

But it has its disadvantages:
- a cloak requires a slot
- you don't have the fitting services of a station (ok mobile depots, but still not much cargo space)
- no reshiping is possible
- decloaks if someone gets within 2000m (that's hard maybe, but to get someone out of a station is even harder)
- fleet ops are harder - you decloak each other
- if you want the ability to warp you need a covOps - which is worse at other things
- is deactivated with jumping through a gate
- and last but not least you can't do anything while cloaked and have a timer to targeting after decloaking if you don't sit in a SB which is a restriction.
- did I forgot something?

SOV holding has its advantages - it should also have its problems or disadvantages.

And if someone comes in the system and avoids the fight with people outnumbering him but you have a problem if he waits until he is not anymore outnumbered... well.

It is not about counters but about balance.
Roxanne Quall
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#660 - 2015-01-26 21:24:51 UTC
I didn't say to remove cloak

if someone comes in system in this mechanic then he cloaks up the group uses the sov and units they had to pay and put up for it to do anything, Ah crap they are within 50km you move to a new location your safe for 1/2 a hour. Maybe the system even pings and your told a scan was just made then you move.

I don't see why your so against it honestly.


Whats So Wrong with a Cloaked pilot Having to be just as proactive as the PvE? In another post i said your like the pot calling the kettle black because you say the Carebears are crying they wanna feel safe waa waaa but then your the one saying no no don't take my trolling tool away don't make me have to have any skill i wanna sit around not paying attention to anything because i got my cloak on.

There should be some skill to the cloaked pilot.

I quoted Terms from Star Trek showing that the idea that a cloaked ship is absolutely not able to be semi detected in some way is absurd.

Allowing Sov Owners to put up like " quantum beacons " that you could perform " metaphysic sweep's" to determine a general location of 20-50KM from a cloaked ship. Only able to be re-used after like a 30 Min cool down Allowing said alliance to warp and perform a physical search op?

Would make it still able to gather Intel and be undetected as to exactly where it's at it would just be a round-about location and would set the regular cloak apart of the covert-ops even more

With the game mechanics the way it is in you would be moving at a much faster travel speed with covert-ops so you should have a very good chance of not being found. You would see everyone else around you and be moving away. Also Black-op BS's would be super effective with the speed boosts.

I don't see any Dev guiding the discussion which would be a huge help to this issue. Helping advance the ideas rather than a lot of them buried under many pages of posts.