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[Proposal] NPC corp tax gradually increases over time
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mxzf
Shovel Bros
#21 - 2011-12-19 16:12:11 UTC
GavinCapacitor wrote:
Flaws aside, this idea is still awful.


Easily my favorite line in this entire thread, lol.

And he's right. If you force people out of NPC corps they still won't comply with your wishes, they will still do everything in their power to avoid you.

This entire thread is nothing more than a big huge "my idea of a sandbox is more important than your idea of a sandbox" whine. You can't force people to play the way you want them to and you can't force them to interact if they don't want to. Get over it.
hired goon
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#22 - 2011-12-19 16:18:02 UTC
GavinCapacitor wrote:
Can't believe no one sees what will happen if this idea went live:

A bunch of single-digit-membership alt corps with 0% tax. War-dec'd ? Make another for less than the war dec cost. What is you plan to deal with this so you can force people out of the NPC corps? Also, as stated, eventually this 'idea' would get people to 100% tax rate in NPC corps. Thats legit, yo.

Flaws aside, this idea is still awful.


You raise a good point about the one man corps. I don't think such an exploit would matter though, as if people leave the NPC corp to make their own single digit corp, they have still increased their risk, and so still deserve the reward of 0% tax they would receive.

I do not think NPC corps should end at 100% tax, that's silly. Perhaps 40% should be highest for example. And maybe a slower increase, 1% a week. Like I said in the OP, I am open to ideas for the actual numbers.

Anyone reading most of the replies in this thread would think the OP says "turn empire space into nullsec so I can kill whoever I want" when in fact it is a measured and reasonable approach to redressing hyper-inflation, risk vs reward, the devaluation of most items, and everyone having now "completed" eve as we wait for CCP to supply a new end game.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#23 - 2011-12-19 16:34:45 UTC
GavinCapacitor wrote:
Can't believe no one sees what will happen if this idea went live:

A bunch of single-digit-membership alt corps with 0% tax. War-dec'd ? Make another for less than the war dec cost. What is you plan to deal with this so you can force people out of the NPC corps? Also, as stated, eventually this 'idea' would get people to 100% tax rate in NPC corps. Thats legit, yo.

Flaws aside, this idea is still awful.


So make it more difficult to close one corp and open another, and put a cap on NPC corp taxes so that it's REDUCED income, not completely removed. The idea is to make sitting in NPC corps less desirable.

Another idea might be to add hostility between NPC corps so that rival corps won't all you to dock in their stations or give you access to their agents. If NPC corp characters were only welcome in their corp's native empire space (meaning they can't use agents elsewhere) and had rival corps in that space that would deny them docking privileges, it might become enough of an annoyance that they leave the NPC corp.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2011-12-19 18:57:28 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
GavinCapacitor wrote:
Can't believe no one sees what will happen if this idea went live:

A bunch of single-digit-membership alt corps with 0% tax. War-dec'd ? Make another for less than the war dec cost. What is you plan to deal with this so you can force people out of the NPC corps? Also, as stated, eventually this 'idea' would get people to 100% tax rate in NPC corps. Thats legit, yo.

Flaws aside, this idea is still awful.


So make it more difficult to close one corp and open another, and put a cap on NPC corp taxes so that it's REDUCED income, not completely removed. The idea is to make sitting in NPC corps less desirable.

Another idea might be to add hostility between NPC corps so that rival corps won't all you to dock in their stations or give you access to their agents. If NPC corp characters were only welcome in their corp's native empire space (meaning they can't use agents elsewhere) and had rival corps in that space that would deny them docking privileges, it might become enough of an annoyance that they leave the NPC corp.


Surely if someone wants to subscribe to EVE and pays their money each month as you do, they can stay in a NPC corp if they want to. What gives you or anyone else in this thread the right to dictate how someone else plays the game?

If someone wishes to remain non-affiliated to any corp or alliance in EVE then that is their right to do so.

Remember, not everyone in a NPC corp is there to avoid wardecs. There are plenty of reasons as to why a character is there, most notable being null sec alts for logistic purposes.

They don't run missions for the most part so an increasing tax rate would not affect them at all.

I will not support any suggestion that impinges on someone else's ability to play the game their way.
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2011-12-19 19:18:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Drake Draconis
Have to agree with Mr. Menance...Floppie you bring up a valid point but the fact remains...we have no right to force anyone to play this game any differently than we would expect you fine gents to do so.


And the excuse of stopping bots isn't going to fly either...because obviously not everyone is a bot.....yes everyone here has high sec alts....so its shooting yourself in the foot.


There are ways to take them out...even if they aren't convient as a war dec.

================ STOP THE EVEMAIL SPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2011-12-19 19:23:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Smiling Menace wrote:

Remember, not everyone in a NPC corp is there to avoid wardecs. There are plenty of reasons as to why a character is there, most notable being null sec alts for logistic purposes.
You don't think avoiding wardecs has anything to do with why NPC corps are used for nullsec logistics?
Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2011-12-19 19:40:28 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Smiling Menace wrote:

Remember, not everyone in a NPC corp is there to avoid wardecs. There are plenty of reasons as to why a character is there, most notable being null sec alts for logistic purposes.
You don't think avoiding wardecs has anything to do with why NPC corps are used for nullsec logistics?


Not really. It would be just the same if they were in their own corp. Most of the hi sec griefers that dec large null sec alliances wouldn't waste their time trying to work out which one man corp belonged to a null sec toon.

I know my logistics toon is in a NPC corp just because I couldn't be bothered with setting up a corp when it wasn't and still isn't necessary.

This is not my main either and is in a 1 man corp but I do run missions on this toon and various other things but that is my choice. No-one forced this on me and that's exactly what's being proposed by this suggestion.

Imposition on a select part of the EVE community to conform to someone else's idea of what they should be doing.

Don't agree with that and never will.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2011-12-19 19:45:29 UTC
mxzf wrote:
You can't force people to play the way YOU want them too. People will either play the way they want to or they'll quit and play another game.


What he said.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Thredd Necro
Doomheim
#29 - 2011-12-19 19:53:45 UTC
mxzf wrote:
hired goon wrote:
I understand how you may all view this as being simply my opinion


There's a reason for that, it is just your opinion.

The point remains that forcing people to do stuff is a bad idea. /thread


This.

He attacked everything in life with a mix of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence, and it was often difficult to tell which was which. - Douglas Adams
Nullbeard Rager
Doomheim
#30 - 2011-12-19 20:00:59 UTC
hired goon wrote:
A simple idea to get people more involved in Eve. Let's tax the crap out of them and STARVE them out! THAT will make them more enthusiastic about playing EVE!


Silly and cliche'd idea.

Aside from that in case you missed the recent newsflash:

EVE's subscription numbers DID dropPirate

Field of Trolls:  "If you chum it, they will come."
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#31 - 2011-12-19 21:02:53 UTC
Smiling Menace wrote:
Surely if someone wants to subscribe to EVE and pays their money each month as you do, they can stay in a NPC corp if they want to. What gives you or anyone else in this thread the right to dictate how someone else plays the game?


CCP dictates how we play the game every second we're playing it. Concord? That's telling me I can't shoot your ship when I want to. HOW DARE THEY NOT LET ME PLAY MY WAY.

What we're suggesting here is a look at a way to stop the abuse of the NPC corps without FORCING people out of them. Alliance supply lines are largely untouchable because they can be maintained from inside NPC corps. ISK faucets such as mission, mining, and incursion alts can all be protected inside NPC corps. People pay a paltry corp tax for absolute immunity to the movements the corporate world of Eve.

As I said, I'm open to other ideas such as restricting access for NPC corps to their own empires. Create a more robust background of lore regarding the corporations and their relationships and then use that lore to create restrictions that fit within the game universe and give it more depth. If you wanted to make it really interesting, occasionally shift those relationships along with news articles about various corporate contracts and summit meetings and such...meaning that if you're living in an NPC corp, your ability to do business may be suddenly cut off as your employer's status changes.

As it stands you can be employed by a Gallente NPC corporation and run missions for the Caldari Navy in which you shoot Federation ships. I'm pretty sure the Caldari would NEVER hire someone who worked for their rivals.

Smiling Menace wrote:
If someone wishes to remain non-affiliated to any corp or alliance in EVE then that is their right to do so.

For the time being. All rights may be revoked by CCP at any time.

Smiling Menace wrote:
Remember, not everyone in a NPC corp is there to avoid wardecs. There are plenty of reasons as to why a character is there, most notable being null sec alts for logistic purposes.

Yeah, I'd like to see those shoved out and forced to reside in player corps where they were vulnerable to wardecs for the purpose of interfering with supply lines, but I don't know a good way to do that. Though my idea of docking restrictions does make it harder to run NPC corp hauler alts.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2011-12-19 22:21:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Smiling Menace
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Smiling Menace wrote:
Surely if someone wants to subscribe to EVE and pays their money each month as you do, they can stay in a NPC corp if they want to. What gives you or anyone else in this thread the right to dictate how someone else plays the game?


CCP dictates how we play the game every second we're playing it. Concord? That's telling me I can't shoot your ship when I want to. HOW DARE THEY NOT LET ME PLAY MY WAY.

What we're suggesting here is a look at a way to stop the abuse of the NPC corps without FORCING people out of them. Alliance supply lines are largely untouchable because they can be maintained from inside NPC corps. ISK faucets such as mission, mining, and incursion alts can all be protected inside NPC corps. People pay a paltry corp tax for absolute immunity to the movements the corporate world of Eve.

As I said, I'm open to other ideas such as restricting access for NPC corps to their own empires. Create a more robust background of lore regarding the corporations and their relationships and then use that lore to create restrictions that fit within the game universe and give it more depth. If you wanted to make it really interesting, occasionally shift those relationships along with news articles about various corporate contracts and summit meetings and such...meaning that if you're living in an NPC corp, your ability to do business may be suddenly cut off as your employer's status changes.

As it stands you can be employed by a Gallente NPC corporation and run missions for the Caldari Navy in which you shoot Federation ships. I'm pretty sure the Caldari would NEVER hire someone who worked for their rivals.

Smiling Menace wrote:
If someone wishes to remain non-affiliated to any corp or alliance in EVE then that is their right to do so.

For the time being. All rights may be revoked by CCP at any time.

Smiling Menace wrote:
Remember, not everyone in a NPC corp is there to avoid wardecs. There are plenty of reasons as to why a character is there, most notable being null sec alts for logistic purposes.

Yeah, I'd like to see those shoved out and forced to reside in player corps where they were vulnerable to wardecs for the purpose of interfering with supply lines, but I don't know a good way to do that. Though my idea of docking restrictions does make it harder to run NPC corp hauler alts.


You really should've quoted my whole post.

Null sec alt's for logistics wouldn't bat an eyelid at being 'forced' out of a NPC corp. They will just make a 1 man corp and carry on their merry way. How are you ever going to know they were an alt for a specific corp/alliance?

Also as I previously stated, logi alts rarely run missions so again a tax rate increase wouldn't affect them so it still wouldn't work for that specific purpose.

Yeah CCP dictates how we play their game. Not you, not anyone else that decides how others will play the game.

Docking restrictions would limit a lot of the game for a lot of people.

Well I am sorry to say but there are people that only like to run missions/mine/plex/do PI/Manufacturing without being wardec'd by griefer corps every other minute. That's how they want to play then that is fine by me.

How about you and all the griefers move to low/null then you can shoot at anyone you want and leave the NPC corp people alone? Why is this even an issue for anyone is beyond me unless you are quite happy in hi sec griefing people that can't or won't shoot back?

Only trouble there is, the people in null will shoot back and are likely to have a lot more friends than you do.

Again, this just smacks of 'I want you to play the game my way'.

Oh and the part about NPC restrictions? There's already a game mechanic for that. Shoot Gallente Navy ships for Caldari missions (for example) then you take a standing hit to Gallents and vice versa. Think that is working as intended.

One thing that may help this situation, full on, no holds barred war between the 4 factions in EVE. Be a Gal toon in Cal space and you can and will get attacked, something like that would be cool.

The big boys have been too friendly for too long now....we want WAR!!! Twisted
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#33 - 2011-12-20 04:45:02 UTC
God, I really wish CCP would re-visit War Dec mechanics... Hi-Sec is *safer*, not "SAFE".

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Rina Asanari
CitadeI
#34 - 2011-12-20 07:48:05 UTC
Here's a countermeasure:

Join 'Tax evaders' corp, leave corp soon thereafter. NPC tax counter is reset to zero. If not, do corp-hopping.


So... awful idea is still awful.
Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2011-12-20 14:44:02 UTC
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
God, I really wish CCP would re-visit War Dec mechanics... Hi-Sec is *safer*, not "SAFE".


I agree with this.

I look at hi sec as the Western nations. All nice, cosy and you can live in relative peace but you can still be murdered in the street. Cops then appear and punish the criminal(s).

Low sec is more like developing countries. Still reasonably safe as long as you know what you are doing but be in the wrong place at the wrong time and you are toast. Cops are ineffectual here, just like the real world.

Null, well that's the Somalia of EVE to be honest. Everything goes and don't even think of looking for help from a cop.

I think wardec's do need to be looked at again. They don't seem to be doing the job they were designed for. Hi sec should be safer than low or null but not a total PvP free zone either.

I actually think NPC corps should be allowed to be dec'd. It's just a corp like any other. Maybe even allow the faction that runs the NPC corp to help out as well.

Just means you will have a million noobs in frigs to deal with to kill the guy your after.

Or how about taking a contract out on someone? Assassination would be cool. Just make sure it costs a fortune otherwise everyone and their brother will be assassinating everyone! Lol

After all we've already got the 'terrorists' suicide ganking everything, why not assassins?

Just some thoughts that may make life in hi sec interesting. They may be bad, they may be good. Make of them what you will.

I still don't agree with forcing people out of NPC corps though.
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
#36 - 2011-12-22 08:20:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Rip Minner
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
God, I really wish CCP would re-visit War Dec mechanics... Hi-Sec is *safer*, not "SAFE".



Take a look again Hi-Sec is not safe it's just safer. Fact more ships blow up in High Sec then anywere alse. That counter points your ideal that High Sec is "SAFE".

It matters not if you think only stupid people loss ships in High sec it's still Fact.

http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=3235

Edit: Just think of it this way. If they cant even keep there ships in one piece doing NPC's in High sec there probly not even going to be a challange to you any ways.

Is it a rock point a lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship point a lazer at it and profit. I dont see any problems here.
Anshio Tamark
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#37 - 2011-12-22 10:30:37 UTC
No.

Two reasons why this shouldn't be implemented:

1: It would be too hard to implement, compared to how desired it is. CCP already has enough stuff to fix.
2: You want to force players to join a Player-corp, even if the ones they want to join don't want them, and they don't like the people in the corps that do want them.
Laechyd Eldgorn
Avanto
Hole Control
#38 - 2011-12-22 11:32:24 UTC
Just allow bribing concord to "wardec" one individual even in npc corp. It should be probably a bit more expensive stuff, but I see no reason why not.

And then you can also just suicide gank.
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