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Computer Powers Off when i turn on Shadows
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De BuG2
Loot 'n' Scoot Salvage Co.
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#1 - 2011-12-20 02:44:59 UTC  |  Edited by: De BuG2
Hey all, I just recently (4 Hours ago) Built my new gaming rig and I fired up Eve. It ran absolutley fine on max settings, Hitting around 60-70 FPS But as soon as i turned on shadows the whole computer just shuts down, no warning or anything. Another odd thing is i cant turn it back on, so i have to unplug it from the mains, plug it back in and only then will pushing the power button work. What could cause this?

Case: Sharkoon T9 Value Green Edition ATX Case inc Front USB 3.0/Audio & Cable Management

CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 960T Black Edition, S AM3

MoBo: Gigabyte GA-880GM-USB3, AMD 880G, S AM3+, DDR3, SATA II - 3Gb/s, RAID SATA, PCIe 2.0 (x16), Graphics On Board, Micro ATX

RAM: Kingston Memory HyperX grey Dual Channel Kit 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 PC3-12800 (1600)

HDD: 320GB Samsung HD322GJ Spinpoint F4, SATA 3Gb/s, 7200rpm, 16MB Cache, 8.9ms, NCQ

GPU: EVGA 1GB GeForce GTX 550 Ti Superclocked NVIDIA Graphics Card

PSU: 550W PSU, ACE PSUACE550BR, Black with Red 12cm Fan, ATX v2.03

CPU Cooler: Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro v2 S775/1155/1156/1366/AM3/AM2+/AM2/939 Up to 130 Watts

This is the Rig, I posted it a while back on the forums.

Thanks for any help,
Bug.

Edit -- Ok... it seems no matter what i do about 20 seconds into Eve the computer powers off.
SpaceSquirrels
#2 - 2011-12-20 03:06:31 UTC
Re check to see if your cooler is actually in place and locked down... but before you do make sure you have thermal paste on...and not too much of it. It shouldnt be globed on there. (Your system shuts down automatically if temps are exceeded.) There reason with shadows is because of the extra processing power needed...thus higher temps and more power.

If that doesnt fix it. Open up your bios on start up and go to temp. Let it start running for around 5-15 minutes and see of the temp climbs to bad juju levels or near bad juju levels.

If not might be a faulty PSU.
De BuG2
Loot 'n' Scoot Salvage Co.
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#3 - 2011-12-20 03:10:42 UTC  |  Edited by: De BuG2
SpaceSquirrels wrote:
Re check to see if your cooler is actually in place and locked down... but before you do make sure you have thermal paste on...and not too much of it. It shouldnt be globed on there. (Your system shuts down automatically if temps are exceeded.) There reason with shadows is because of the extra processing power needed...thus higher temps and more power.

If that doesnt fix it. Open up your bios on start up and go to temp. Let it start running for around 5-15 minutes and see of the temp climbs to bad juju levels or near bad juju levels.

If not might be a faulty PSU.


The CPU Cooler is all locked down and fine, The problem is the GPU, it's Temperature seems to rise Very very quickly to 50-60 Degrees even after 10 minutes of Eve on Medium graphics, the GPU fan is definatley spinning.
De BuG2
Loot 'n' Scoot Salvage Co.
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#4 - 2011-12-20 03:19:03 UTC
On a side note, it seems the GPU fan isnt spinning very fast, im not sure what speed it should be spinning. Could someone tell me? I'll see if i can find a program that tells me what it's at.
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#5 - 2011-12-20 03:35:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Akita T
De BuG2 wrote:
The problem is the GPU, it's Temperature seems to rise Very very quickly to 50-60 Degrees even after 10 minutes of Eve on Medium graphics, the GPU fan is definatley spinning.

That's odd.

The 550 Ti should only be drawing 116 W at stock speeds, and even with a generous overestimate of cubed power consumption and a 10% factory overclock it should not draw more than 155W at most.
I have a 1GB 460 GTX (stock 160W power draw) with a 6% factory overclock, and with the same generous overestimate of cubed power consumption due to overclocking it should draw up to 190W... even without the factory overclock it should still draw more than your card.
Although, granted, performance-wise, I should be getting about 26% better FPS than you (31% better if both were at stock speeds).

Anyway, with vsynch on (and mine is capped at 85Hz, not 60Hz - I use a CRT, not a LCD - that's an additional 42% load on the video card right there) even in 1600x1024 with everything EVE can set internally ramped up to the maximum, I seldom go over 65C unless I load up the CQ, and even there, it peaks at around 72-73C or thereabouts (and I'm not getting 85 FPS inside the CQ).
So you getting near 60 C with a card that should be drawing noticeably less power while also barely

Are you sure you have vsynch set to on ?
That's "Interval one" inside EVE, as opposed to "Interval immediate" which would mean vsynch off.
Press CTRL-F while inside the game and tell us the listed FPS. Is it capped to 60 or so, or do you get hundreds of FPS ?
If you have vsynch off, then if your CPU is also strong enough to feed sufficient frames, your video card could be maxing out even if you set the graphics detail to minimum.
And yes, it will obviously overheat in that case.

De BuG2 wrote:
On a side note, it seems the GPU fan isnt spinning very fast, im not sure what speed it should be spinning. Could someone tell me? I'll see if i can find a program that tells me what it's at.

Try GPU-Z. It has a lot of additional interesting information.

EDIT: found you a download link - http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/2065/TechPowerUp_GPU-Z_v0.5.6.html

Akita T evewiki profile | | | Build your own EVE-ready PC
SpaceSquirrels
#6 - 2011-12-20 03:35:44 UTC
Msi afterburner should have something to download... not sure if nvidia has a CC type program that displays it as well. Do you have any other fans in the case? Rear? top? front? If so is the direction on each all going one way?

If it is a faulty GPU fan/cooler there are ways of tweaking it or re setting the heat sink, but easier to RMA it for a new one, unless you have micro tool set, and know what you're doing.

(also make sure the back of the PC isn't directly against some solid surface...exhaust needs room to vent. 4-6 inches. )
De BuG2
Loot 'n' Scoot Salvage Co.
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#7 - 2011-12-20 04:22:05 UTC  |  Edited by: De BuG2
Akita T wrote:
De BuG2 wrote:
The problem is the GPU, it's Temperature seems to rise Very very quickly to 50-60 Degrees even after 10 minutes of Eve on Medium graphics, the GPU fan is definatley spinning.

That's odd.

The 550 Ti should only be drawing 116 W at stock speeds, and even with a generous overestimate of cubed power consumption and a 10% factory overclock it should not draw more than 155W at most.
I have a 1GB 460 GTX (stock 160W power draw) with a 6% factory overclock, and with the same generous overestimate of cubed power consumption due to overclocking it should draw up to 190W... even without the factory overclock it should still draw more than your card.
Although, granted, performance-wise, I should be getting about 26% better FPS than you (31% better if both were at stock speeds).

Anyway, with vsynch on (and mine is capped at 85Hz, not 60Hz - I use a CRT, not a LCD - that's an additional 42% load on the video card right there) even in 1600x1024 with everything EVE can set internally ramped up to the maximum, I seldom go over 65C unless I load up the CQ, and even there, it peaks at around 72-73C or thereabouts (and I'm not getting 85 FPS inside the CQ).
So you getting near 60 C with a card that should be drawing noticeably less power while also barely

Are you sure you have vsynch set to on ?
That's "Interval one" inside EVE, as opposed to "Interval immediate" which would mean vsynch off.
Press CTRL-F while inside the game and tell us the listed FPS. Is it capped to 60 or so, or do you get hundreds of FPS ?
If you have vsynch off, then if your CPU is also strong enough to feed sufficient frames, your video card could be maxing out even if you set the graphics detail to minimum.
And yes, it will obviously overheat in that case.

De BuG2 wrote:
On a side note, it seems the GPU fan isnt spinning very fast, im not sure what speed it should be spinning. Could someone tell me? I'll see if i can find a program that tells me what it's at.

Try GPU-Z. It has a lot of additional interesting information.

EDIT: found you a download link - http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/2065/TechPowerUp_GPU-Z_v0.5.6.html


I have done abit of testing and found out it has nothing to do with temperature, I have it set to interval one and am always achieving a steady 60 FPS at Mid-High graphics. I set the GPU fan to 75% and that keeps it cool at about 38 Degrees. But the problem still persists where if i Turn just one setting up, the computer looses power. The first time it was turning shadows on, Second time it was Shader to High from Medium, this time i turned Interval one to interval immediate and once again just complete shutdown.

Edit -- Im using EVGA Precision to Change GPU Fan speeds, But i have not touched the Core, Shader and Memor clock rates.
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2011-12-20 05:25:56 UTC
I know this will sound odd. But I have 560 Watt recommendation for system with 560ti. You have 550 Watt. I think it is power supply that cause you problems.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!
Marie Hartinez
Aries Munitions and Defense
#9 - 2011-12-20 06:20:17 UTC
Caleidascope wrote:
I know this will sound odd. But I have 560 Watt recommendation for system with 560ti. You have 550 Watt. I think it is power supply that cause you problems.


I'm going to have to agree with this. It sounds like your GPU is drawing more power then your PSU is capable of delivering. This is either because your PSU is possibly bad or under powered.

Surrender is still your slightly less painful option.
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#10 - 2011-12-20 06:25:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Akita T
Caleidascope wrote:
I know this will sound odd. But I have 560 Watt recommendation for system with 560ti. You have 550 Watt. I think it is power supply that cause you problems.

My total system power draw is most likely only around 380W at uber-maxed everythings (max 190W video, max 95W processor, max 85W for everything else combined, most likely less), so that leaves my 550W PSU usage at under 70% of the listed power even under the most extreme of circumstances.
Playing EVE in single client mode at max everything however I seriously doubt I actually draw more than 300W, if even that much (probably more around 250W or thereabouts).

I've never had any power load problems, he shouldn't have any power load problems.
That is, if his PSU is not faulty. It MIGHT be faulty and not provide more than half of the advertised wattage (because that's the only way it could cause problems).

P.S. It could also be the power connectors. Are you sure you properly fastened the 6-pin connectors to the video card ? I can only assume you have 2x 6-pin connectors plugged in - since it MIGHT just barely draw over 150W, so a single 6-pin connector should not be enough (PCI-E draw max 75W, plus max 75W per 6-pin connector). If you don't have two of those 6-pin connectors plugged in, that could be your problem.

Akita T evewiki profile | | | Build your own EVE-ready PC
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2011-12-20 06:27:04 UTC
Oops.

That should have been 560 Watts for 550ti. Anyway. I still think it is power supply.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#12 - 2011-12-20 06:40:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Akita T
Caleidascope wrote:
Oops. That should have been 560 Watts for 550ti. Anyway. I still think it is power supply.

The recommendations are usually made for uber-cheaply-made PSUs with peak advertised powers well in excess of what they can actually provide steadily and long-term after a bit of wear-down, a power which they might be able to provide only fresh out of the box and briefly.

Then again, I just checked, and the PSU he lists retails for around 16-17 GBP from what I can see in google searches (that's including VAT), so the same PSU if sold in the USA would retail for about 22-23 USD, which means that yeah, it *is* one of those uber-cheaply-made PSUs, and it might just indeed be the problem.

Although, if relatively new, it should still be able to provide enough power for what he needs, only with serious age should it start causing problems.
His entire system probably consumes somewhere around 350W at peak utilization of everything, and I can only assume the PSU is new since he just put his machine together.

...

P.S. http://www.evga.com/products/moreinfo.asp?pn=01G-P3-1557-KR

"Requirements
Minimum of a 400 Watt power supply.
(Minimum recommended power supply with +12 Volt current rating of 24 Amps.)"

Apparently, not even close to the 560W you just claimed. I think you got it right the first time, recommended 550W for 560Ti.

...

P.P.S. So that leaves either a defective PSU (because wattage-wise it should be more than enough), some missing or badly slotted power connectors... or something else entirely, not power-related.

Akita T evewiki profile | | | Build your own EVE-ready PC
Taedrin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2011-12-20 06:58:41 UTC
Akita T wrote:
Caleidascope wrote:
I know this will sound odd. But I have 560 Watt recommendation for system with 560ti. You have 550 Watt. I think it is power supply that cause you problems.

My total system power draw is most likely only around 380W at uber-maxed everythings (max 190W video, max 95W processor, max 85W for everything else combined, most likely less), so that leaves my 550W PSU usage at under 70% of the listed power even under the most extreme of circumstances.
Playing EVE in single client mode at max everything however I seriously doubt I actually draw more than 300W, if even that much (probably more around 250W or thereabouts).

I've never had any power load problems, he shouldn't have any power load problems.
That is, if his PSU is not faulty. It MIGHT be faulty and not provide more than half of the advertised wattage (because that's the only way it could cause problems).

P.S. It could also be the power connectors. Are you sure you properly fastened the 6-pin connectors to the video card ? I can only assume you have 2x 6-pin connectors plugged in - since it MIGHT just barely draw over 150W, so a single 6-pin connector should not be enough (PCI-E draw max 75W, plus max 75W per 6-pin connector). If you don't have two of those 6-pin connectors plugged in, that could be your problem.


Don't forget that the PSU is a little more complicated than simply providing a total amount of power to your computer. The PSU's wattage is simply the sum of the capacities of it's individual rails. It very well might be that the 12 volt rails might not have enough juice to support his graphics card at full load, even though the other voltage rails have plenty of spare power
De BuG2
Loot 'n' Scoot Salvage Co.
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#14 - 2011-12-20 10:45:05 UTC
I think i found the main problem. Since my PSU is fairly cheap it did not have any 6 or 8 Pin power plugs. So in order to get the GPU working i had to use the provided adaptor which turns 1 6 Pin power socket into 2 Molex sockets, which i then plugged into 2 Molex plugs from the power supply, Would this supply enough power? another thing is the Supplimental CPU Power (Not the really big main motherboard power, the smaller one to the left of the CPU for me), this is an 8 Pin power socket but unfortunatley my PSU did not actually have an 8 Pin power plug, only a 4 (Arranged 2x2 Pin) so i just plugged the 4 pin in and it worked fine but im guessing the CPU is not recieving enough power under heavy load?
SpaceSquirrels
#15 - 2011-12-20 14:49:43 UTC
^

Boom right there. For whatever reason they supply the dual molex with the cards. However I've always gotten bios errors if i've ever tried to use those instead a legit 12v pins from the PSU it's self.

if your PSU is modular then you need to order cables directly from the company. (a pain in the ass 1. Because of the time 2. the shipping is more than the part 3. they often sell out because everyone needs a second/third one these days.)

If you don't have a modular PSU... (always get modular the money is worth it) well I guess you can get by, but faulty power can ruin components or cause errors due to wacky voltages. (RAM) etc
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#16 - 2011-12-20 15:00:06 UTC
De BuG2 wrote:
I think i found the main problem. Since my PSU is fairly cheap it did not have any 6 or 8 Pin power plugs. So in order to get the GPU working i had to use the provided adaptor which turns 1 6 Pin power socket into 2 Molex sockets, which i then plugged into 2 Molex plugs from the power supply, Would this supply enough power? another thing is the Supplimental CPU Power (Not the really big main motherboard power, the smaller one to the left of the CPU for me), this is an 8 Pin power socket but unfortunatley my PSU did not actually have an 8 Pin power plug, only a 4 (Arranged 2x2 Pin) so i just plugged the 4 pin in and it worked fine but im guessing the CPU is not recieving enough power under heavy load?


You have found your problem then for as your GPU load increases so often does your CPU load as well, which ofc requires more power...
And if you're already taxing out your PSU it won't likely last very long and will one day fail, possibly frying both it self and your mainboard, sometimes your graphics card goes along as well.

I'd get a modern PSU if I were you, they don't cost that much anyway, not even the good ones.
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#17 - 2011-12-20 15:03:09 UTC
SpaceSquirrels wrote:
^

Boom right there. For whatever reason they supply the dual molex with the cards. However I've always gotten bios errors if i've ever tried to use those instead a legit 12v pins from the PSU it's self.


Thats because you try to get one 12V line to feed 2x 12V lines which really cannot work as PSU voltage drops like a ton of bricks if try to draw too much power (voltage) from a single line.
De BuG2
Loot 'n' Scoot Salvage Co.
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#18 - 2011-12-20 15:09:07 UTC
Baneken wrote:
De BuG2 wrote:
I think i found the main problem. Since my PSU is fairly cheap it did not have any 6 or 8 Pin power plugs. So in order to get the GPU working i had to use the provided adaptor which turns 1 6 Pin power socket into 2 Molex sockets, which i then plugged into 2 Molex plugs from the power supply, Would this supply enough power? another thing is the Supplimental CPU Power (Not the really big main motherboard power, the smaller one to the left of the CPU for me), this is an 8 Pin power socket but unfortunatley my PSU did not actually have an 8 Pin power plug, only a 4 (Arranged 2x2 Pin) so i just plugged the 4 pin in and it worked fine but im guessing the CPU is not recieving enough power under heavy load?


You have found your problem then for as your GPU load increases so often does your CPU load as well, which ofc requires more power...
And if you're already taxing out your PSU it won't likely last very long and will one day fail, possibly frying both it self and your mainboard, sometimes your graphics card goes along as well.

I'd get a modern PSU if I were you, they don't cost that much anyway, not even the good ones.


Yep, I've emptied my remaining wallet on a £70 Modular PSU. Should be sorted now. Thanks for all the help guys Big smile
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#19 - 2011-12-20 16:27:55 UTC
Caleidascope wrote:
I know this will sound odd. But I have 560 Watt recommendation for system with 560ti. You have 550 Watt. I think it is power supply that cause you problems.


I was about to say 'It's the power supply' but then I realized that a dozen people had already said it.

Well done on the repair and glad to hear you're cap-stable. Big smile

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#20 - 2011-12-20 17:05:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Akita T
Taedrin wrote:
Don't forget that the PSU is a little more complicated than simply providing a total amount of power to your computer. The PSU's wattage is simply the sum of the capacities of it's individual rails. It very well might be that the 12 volt rails might not have enough juice to support his graphics card at full load, even though the other voltage rails have plenty of spare power

Could be true.
Still, one would expect an alleged 550W PSU to be able to deliver at least 330W on the 12V rails (27+ Amp), and he only needs 288W there (24+ A) as per the video card manufacturer recommendations.

It could also be that his old cheapo PSU actually has two separate 12V rails (couldn't find any tech specs for it), and he was using one MOLEX connector from each rail, so when it went under heavier load, the two rails might have become slightly out of synch which caused some weirdness in the video card power supply.
Or maybe he had both MOLEX connectors from the same rail, the same one of the rails that was also unilaterally supplying power to almost everything else in the machine and he didn't use much of the second rail, so he overloaded the first rail badly.

Personally, I prefer single-rail designs because of that.

EDIT : Finally managed to find some techspecs !
http://www.envizage.com/products/power-supplies-ace/psuace550br-ace-500w-quiet-silent-pc-power-supply-psu-black-red.html
Yup, it's a two-rail PSU, with 14A (168W) on each 12V rail for 336W on the 12V rails combined.
It would be worth a shot to try switching around to all possible combinations of MOLEX connectors into the 6-pin adapter, maybe one of them could be stable enough.

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