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In-corp fights in highsec
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Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
#21 - 2011-12-19 23:34:34 UTC
Small question: What would happen if you would have left the corp when they start to shoot your freighter?

Next question, what would happen if someone self destruct in a sparing fight instead of shooting back with your new system? ;-)

Remove insurance.
Terminal Insanity
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#22 - 2011-12-19 23:36:40 UTC
Another carebear thread, trying to dumb down eve.

"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP
Sati Kerensky
Perkone
Caldari State
#23 - 2011-12-19 23:37:04 UTC
Tenris Anis wrote:
Small question: What would happen if you would have left the corp when they start to shoot your freighter?

Next question, what would happen if someone self destruct in a sparing fight instead of shooting back with your new system? ;-)

You can't leave the corp unless you're docked (Yep, I was told it was possible some time ago, but it was apparently changed).
Self-destructs should of course be considered a consensual kill ;)
Sati Kerensky
Perkone
Caldari State
#24 - 2011-12-19 23:38:16 UTC
Terminal Insanity wrote:
Another carebear thread, trying to dumb down eve.

Another poster who needs to look up http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentation
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2011-12-20 00:58:19 UTC
Terminal Insanity wrote:
Another carebear thread, trying to dumb down eve.

this

it is already way too noob friendly
Sati Kerensky
Perkone
Caldari State
#26 - 2011-12-20 01:07:43 UTC
Naomi Knight wrote:
Terminal Insanity wrote:
Another carebear thread, trying to dumb down eve.

this

it is already way too noob friendly

If CCP wasn't interested in keeping highsec somewhat secure vs. griefers, why do you think they implemented that warning when you're about to logi-help a criminally flagged? They do afterall advertize with EVE offering something to all types of players, peaceful mining or trading up to nullsec wars (can't find the quote again currently, but I'll see if I can dig it up again). Sure, non-consensual combat is an integral part of EVE, but in highsec, you should pay the price for it, that's what CONCORD is for. Wardecs - sure, you do pay at least a nomal fee. But corp-ganks are currently just a way to get past that.
Epofhis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#27 - 2011-12-20 01:09:17 UTC
We're talking about a game whose own marketing Explicitly recommends that you destroy the life savings and work of hundreds of other players to satisfy your own butthurt. (Causality trailer)

Good luck with trying to change this, and as always,

This feature is working as intended.

PS: Maybe don't be such an easy mark next time.

Before posting in Features and Ideas, please remember that Eve is in no way obligated to change based on your stupidity, ineptitude, or well honed sense of personal butthurt.

Sati Kerensky
Perkone
Caldari State
#28 - 2011-12-20 01:24:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Sati Kerensky
Epofhis wrote:
We're talking about a game whose own marketing Explicitly recommends that you destroy the life savings and work of hundreds of other players to satisfy your own butthurt. (Causality trailer)

Good luck with trying to change this, and as always,

This feature is working as intended.

PS: Maybe don't be such an easy mark next time.


Before I take this post seriously, or any following along the same lines - explain why CONCORD exists at all.

You attack someone in highsec, successfully or not, CONCORD comes in and kills you, making sure you pay the price. Feature works as intended.
You pay off CONCORD to look the other way so you can attack a certain group of players without them interfering, so you pay the price up front. Feature works as intended.
You attack someone against their will, CONCORD doesn't see one ISK, you don't lose anything apart from your ammo. Feature doesn't work as intended.
Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
#29 - 2011-12-20 01:29:07 UTC
Naomi Knight wrote:
Terminal Insanity wrote:
Another carebear thread, trying to dumb down eve.

this

it is already way too noob friendly


A game can never be too noob friendly. It only can screw up with taking this attitude over into gameplay beyond its starting phase.

Remove insurance.
Epofhis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#30 - 2011-12-20 01:36:31 UTC
Sati Kerensky wrote:

Before I take this post seriously, or any following along the same lines - explain why CONCORD exists at all.


Concord do not exist to save your ass when you fall in with the wrong crowd. In all the fluff and descriptions I have seen Concord does Not intervene in matters of corporate internal security. So if someone stole all my corporate assets, hung out in space in a freighter, and I went to shoot him, I would be destroyed? I'm sure that there is absolutely as much potential for abuse In this system as the current system, if not more.

You got scammed, bro. Please accept it, move on, and lower your crack intake.

Before posting in Features and Ideas, please remember that Eve is in no way obligated to change based on your stupidity, ineptitude, or well honed sense of personal butthurt.

Sati Kerensky
Perkone
Caldari State
#31 - 2011-12-20 01:47:00 UTC
Epofhis wrote:
Sati Kerensky wrote:

Before I take this post seriously, or any following along the same lines - explain why CONCORD exists at all.


Concord do not exist to save your ass when you fall in with the wrong crowd. In all the fluff and descriptions I have seen Concord does Not intervene in matters of corporate internal security. So if someone stole all my corporate assets, hung out in space in a freighter, and I went to shoot him, I would be destroyed? I'm sure that there is absolutely as much potential for abuse In this system as the current system, if not more.

You got scammed, bro. Please accept it, move on, and lower your crack intake.

Apples and oranges, CONCORD doesn't intervene if you can-flip either. Besides, you evaded my question - why, in terms of game mechanics, does CONCORD exist?
Epofhis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#32 - 2011-12-20 03:02:27 UTC
To punish unauthorized agression on people not in your corp.

/thread.

Before posting in Features and Ideas, please remember that Eve is in no way obligated to change based on your stupidity, ineptitude, or well honed sense of personal butthurt.

Sati Kerensky
Perkone
Caldari State
#33 - 2011-12-20 03:19:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Sati Kerensky
Epofhis wrote:
To punish unauthorized agression on people not in your corp.

/thread.

That's not a game mechanic. Or at least far too specific, you've described the current implementation, not the purpose.
Epofhis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#34 - 2011-12-20 03:41:01 UTC
Exactly. I have descried the current implementation, which is that Concord is in no way liable to help you if you mistakenly join a corp of ne'er do wells and promptly get your **** handed to you.

I suggest posting in crime and punishment about it so others can learn from your mistake.

Before posting in Features and Ideas, please remember that Eve is in no way obligated to change based on your stupidity, ineptitude, or well honed sense of personal butthurt.

Sati Kerensky
Perkone
Caldari State
#35 - 2011-12-20 04:06:04 UTC
Epofhis wrote:
Exactly. I have descried the current implementation, which is that Concord is in no way liable to help you if you mistakenly join a corp of ne'er do wells and promptly get your **** handed to you.

I suggest posting in crime and punishment about it so others can learn from your mistake.

Off topic, but maybe it'll help you understand why I have a problem with your 'argumentation'. I've noticed your +1 for the anti-cloak suggestion of Kittamaru. Applying your own argumentation, one could say that "cloaks are there to hide a ship absolutely in a system, with no means to detect it. Feature works as intended, close thread".
Epofhis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#36 - 2011-12-20 04:21:13 UTC
Not real good with the reading there, are you champ? I supported that in the sense that I support PLAYER VS PLAYER solutions. What you propose is running to concord to solve your problems for you. There are plenty of ways to deal with your situation without changing mechanics, the least of which being doing some research on the corp you're joining. Or are you the kind of person who gets in the van with "free candy" written on the side?

Before posting in Features and Ideas, please remember that Eve is in no way obligated to change based on your stupidity, ineptitude, or well honed sense of personal butthurt.

Sati Kerensky
Perkone
Caldari State
#37 - 2011-12-20 06:08:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Sati Kerensky
Then you should simply state that you don't like the change, not use an argument that would backfire if used against you on another topic. Okay, so you're in favour of as little CONCORD involvement as possible, acknowledged. One vote against (though, going all the way on that, I wonder why you don't vote for removing highsec alltogether..) And no, I wouldn't call forcing someone to use outside sources for research on a highsec corp a valid recommendation.

Anyone with an actual argument against the change?
Obsidiana
Atrament Inc.
#38 - 2011-12-20 21:49:48 UTC
It also lets them RR, web (quicker align), enhance tracking (better damage), and otherwise help you. And yes, we will occasionally blow you up for the sake of pyrotechnics, spit missiles at you to catch your attention, and teach you about jammers for kicks. It's all part of being in a corp.
Sati Kerensky
Perkone
Caldari State
#39 - 2011-12-21 02:34:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Sati Kerensky
Obsidiana wrote:
It also lets them RR, web (quicker align), enhance tracking (better damage), and otherwise help you. And yes, we will occasionally blow you up for the sake of pyrotechnics, spit missiles at you to catch your attention, and teach you about jammers for kicks. It's all part of being in a corp.

So, being in a corp for you is to sit in a highsec belt during a big mining op, and whether he is drunk or is about to quit the game or just had a bad day or just for the pyrotechnics, a corp-'mate' comes in and starts blowing up the Hulks and Orca? Or vice versa, you've joined a nice-looking corp, done some missioning and mining with a few, and then, during the next mining op, one of the guys scrambles you and after they take out your drones, you're toast since you can't do anything while they take an hour to wear you down? That sounds like it certainly doesn't belong into highsec.
As I wrote before, the way I see it, highsec should mean that you can engage in non-consensual PvP, sure, but that you pay a price if you do.
Oh, and the logi-help shouldn't count as aggression anyways. Webs, sure, but that's one possibility of what the corp-wide flag could be for.
Obsidiana
Atrament Inc.
#40 - 2011-12-21 08:25:44 UTC
What you just described is the downside of the coin; a coin with a very shiny up side. In a good corp, yes an older player may pop a noob's frigate, but they'll pay them back triple the replacement cost and give them tips on fittings/survival. There are far worse things that can be done to you than losing a single ship (yes, even a Hulk; insure your Orca). Consider it a cheap lesson.

If you don't like it, there is a way around it: create a one man corp. If you want to socialize, join an alliance that is friendly toward one man corps. Honestly, the structures of corporations better lend themselves to an individual IMHO (note: I am a CEO, not that it I'm an expert).

Other than that, accept the risk. You should never be safe in Eve, even in highsec.
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