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Being griefed by other industry players.

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Jack Traynor
Doomheim
#41 - 2011-12-19 22:19:47 UTC
Grey Azorria wrote:
I believe you are mistaking for a carebear. I am not.

By doing industry correctly you can plex your account(s) and have enough isk and (more importantly) plenty of time left over for pew pew. creating an optimal isk:hour:fun ratio.


So basically, someone else should be playing the game YOU want them to play, and not play THEIR game? Gotcha...

kthxbye
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#42 - 2011-12-19 22:26:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Nephilius wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Information Agent wrote:
Too many accountants playing EVE lol.

I really really dont understand where ya all are getting this 'minerals aren't free' thing from, I can only think that maybe the cost of subbing the acc that the mining is happening on is what ya mean.

I just dont see it, everything Ive ever done in game was done with the view of 'fun' or 'something to pass a bit of time' and I never once thought to myself "Omg Im losing xxx isk per hour doing this" or "sweet Im making xxx isk per hour doing this", I think ya all need to seriously take a break from EVE if all ya can think about is the game currency, or the $15, sure the isk is important but its not real.

Isk is worthless in my opinion/perspective, I cant use it in rl, I cant do anything non EVE related out of game with it, and the only thing I can think of that could make it have any real value is buying plexes which I dont, so I pay my sub to play the game, not be a slave to isk/hour efficiency.

Activities in EVE are worth nothing but fun, its a game, theres no need to attach a monetry value to every mouse click you make.



To explain what people are saying (and no, what he is doing does not upset me in the slightest).

You mine 100 million ISK worth of minerals.
You build a BS that normally costs 110 million ISK.
You sell that BS for 80 million ISK to ensure a quick sale.

In doing so:

You have lost 20 million ISK that you could have gotten by simply selling the minerals.
You have (alternatively) lost 30 million ISK that you could have gotten for selling the BS at a normal competetive price.

Hope that made sense. It did in my head.


It made as much sense as a woman believing that she saved money by buying a pair of $200 shoes for $150. To put it more simply, for some there is no value attached to what they mine, when they mine it. Even after selling the commodities or products made by the commodities, there is still no value. The only thing that matters is the 80 million made, not the 20-30 million lost. The loss isn't perceived, only the gain. The OPs perception is what matters here, not any abstract and fluxuating numbers.


I'm not sure why you directed that first sentence to me. I was simply explaining the basic undeniable math of it... not making a judgement as to whether they should do it or not. In my opinion it's fine.

If you wish to accept 80 million ISK for 100 million ISK worth of materials that simply means that someone else will pocket the ISK you did not want. No harm, no foul. Nice doing busness with you. Smile

This mindset is what allows the secondary industry of reselling on the market to flourish.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Grey Azorria
Federation Industries
#43 - 2011-12-19 22:46:50 UTC
Jack Traynor wrote:
Grey Azorria wrote:
I believe you are mistaking for a carebear. I am not.

By doing industry correctly you can plex your account(s) and have enough isk and (more importantly) plenty of time left over for pew pew. creating an optimal isk:hour:fun ratio.


So basically, someone else should be playing the game YOU want them to play, and not play THEIR game? Gotcha...

kthxbye


Not in the slightest, the reason that eve is so awesome is that there is no 'right' way to play it.

In fact I've now revised my opinion of what the OP does (admittedly because i realised that i make more isk, faster because of it Blink )

Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

Sometimes when I post, I look at my sig and wish that I'd follow my own god damned advice.
Taedrin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2011-12-19 22:47:46 UTC
Oh god, not this again.

To the people who blindly mention "opportunity cost":
Opportunity cost is much more complicated than comparing the amount of money made between two activities. It also considers both tangible and intangible costs. In a game like EVE Online, players do not always want to be 'optimal'. They do not necessarily want to min/max their activities in EVE. Some people want to build something merely for the sake of building something.

And EVEN IF you consider people who want to be 'optimal', you must take into account certain intangible costs, such as hauling time, risk of getting popped while hauling minerals to a trade hub (especially relevant if low/null sec exists between your minerals and the trade hub), the time wasted setting up and maintaining sell orders, and not to mention "effort".

To the people who blindly claim "Minerals I mine are free!":
TINSTAAFL. Enough said.
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
#45 - 2011-12-19 22:56:16 UTC
Diana Dour wrote:
high sec miners like building things, stupid fucks.


I lol'ed hard on this one. I love to see raw emotive cussing.Lol
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#46 - 2011-12-19 23:01:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Akita T
Technically, minerals you mine ARE free.
Then again, so is ISK. Yes, ISK is free, technically. In the same way minerals you mine are free.

Minerals you mine are not worthless.
And neither are they worth less than minerals you buy from the market.

If you want to reduce the worth of stuff you own... well... do whatever you like.
Just stop deluding yourself that you're not.

Akita T evewiki profile | | | Build your own EVE-ready PC
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2011-12-19 23:07:19 UTC
Akita T wrote:
Technically, minerals you mine ARE free.
Then again, so is ISK. Yes, ISK is free, technically. In the same way minerals you mine are free.

Minerals you mine are not worthless.
And neither are they worth less than minerals you buy from the market.

If you want to reduce the worth of stuff you own... well... do whatever you like.
Just stop deluding yourself that you're not.


Reality check ..
What is an "value", what creates such, which is actually real and exist beyond our created measures.
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
#48 - 2011-12-19 23:24:15 UTC
The only thing the first few posts of this troll thread made me wonder about was what percentage of T1 items, that are sold significantly under current max refine value, are NPC produced.

Are there estimates or hard numbers?

Akita T. Bear

I will leaves the baited and trolls to the aged philosophical dead end that is the debate over one's value of their time.


Slade
Grey Azorria
Federation Industries
#49 - 2011-12-19 23:26:48 UTC
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:
Akita T wrote:
Technically, minerals you mine ARE free.
Then again, so is ISK. Yes, ISK is free, technically. In the same way minerals you mine are free.

Minerals you mine are not worthless.
And neither are they worth less than minerals you buy from the market.

If you want to reduce the worth of stuff you own... well... do whatever you like.
Just stop deluding yourself that you're not.


Reality check ..
What is an "value", what creates such, which is actually real and exist beyond our created measures.


well, with out wanting geting into a massive philosophical debate, I believe that in this situation the 'value' of ones space-stuff (at least in part) is the amount of space-money it can be exchanged for

Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

Sometimes when I post, I look at my sig and wish that I'd follow my own god damned advice.
Taedrin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2011-12-19 23:31:05 UTC
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:
Akita T wrote:
Technically, minerals you mine ARE free.
Then again, so is ISK. Yes, ISK is free, technically. In the same way minerals you mine are free.

Minerals you mine are not worthless.
And neither are they worth less than minerals you buy from the market.

If you want to reduce the worth of stuff you own... well... do whatever you like.
Just stop deluding yourself that you're not.


Reality check ..
What is an "value", what creates such, which is actually real and exist beyond our created measures.


Technically, NOTHING exists beyond our created measures, and if we question our created measures then any discussion about ANYTHING is pointless.
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#51 - 2011-12-19 23:35:45 UTC
has anyone mentioned that time is money?

Sitting there all day mining is free, but you are wasting a day that could be spend making better money without looking at rocks rotate.

some people even prefer to work an extra few hours at work and buy a GTC - each to their own.

Anyway you seem like a happy miner, best of luck.

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
Michael Turate
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2011-12-19 23:41:40 UTC
The OP is a market PVP suicide ganker - he/she gets his/her jollies by ingnoring the spreadsheets in space crowd and being a free spirit. I salute your noble cause, long may you continue to play with the sand the way to want to play with it - where is it you sell things please???
Velicitia
XS Tech
#53 - 2011-12-19 23:52:26 UTC
Michael Turate wrote:
where is it you sell things please???


This

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Cys Root
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2011-12-19 23:54:44 UTC
Personally I don't see why anyone would give you any grief over this, I have bought many a ship on the market to be insta reprocessed and resold to mineral buy orders right where it was at.

Hell, it was't that long ago that people were selling battleships at such foolishly low prices that less foolish people were buying Rokhs en masse, insuring them, and self destructing them for a few mil profit a pop. Add salvaging to that and you've actually got a mini profession.
CausticS0da
Shrubbery Acquisitions
Blohm and Voss Shipyards Alliance
#55 - 2011-12-20 00:07:19 UTC
OP is actually the one doing the griefing.
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
#56 - 2011-12-20 00:41:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Slade Trillgon
Crumplecorn wrote:
[img]http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/freeminerals.jpg[/img]

Everyone below this line has been trolled:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------



So true, but that is half the fun of GD, is it not?

But I will chime in against my earlier statement Big smile

In the words of the Immortal Ice T.

Ice T wrote:

You are either pimping or....

You are being pimped.


So, basically, this debate is ended by the traders in the game, just as it is in the real world.

The producers, mission runners are included here as they produce loot, do not have the time, skills, or ‘gumption’ to make full profit from their products, so they sell to the middle men who then maximize their profits. One could say this 'mineral situation' is a prime example of how the wheel is greased in the Capitalist philosophy.


Slade
ACE McFACE
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#57 - 2011-12-20 00:44:15 UTC
Quote:
"No I'm not dipshit, you are losing money I got these rocks for free *******"

NO, bad miner, BAD

Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button.
Vigdis Thorisdottir
Doomheim
#58 - 2011-12-20 01:08:21 UTC
The way I see it, the OP sold a ship, and the spreadsheet jockey did not. Go OP.

And when the spreadsheet jockey replies, "My competitively-priced ship will sell too."

Then why do you care what the OP does?

When they say, "Well the OP could be making X more money with their time."

Again, why do you care?

Because you just lost a little bit of your business? Because you're mad that everyone else won't price fix with you? Seriously, at least the OP isn't .01 isking republic fleet emp every 5 minutes.
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#59 - 2011-12-20 01:29:29 UTC
The only "opportunity cost" that matters, is that opportunity cost that is determined when the decision is made to play the game or not, the rest is mental masturbation.

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#60 - 2011-12-20 01:43:27 UTC
So many people seem to be having trouble with the idea of opportunity cost. I thought EVE was supposed to attract the smarter MMORPG players? It's like your saying that a PvPer that doesn't mind losses doesn't really lose anything when they die; sure, they don't care, and that's fine (it's good, even), but it is still a quantifiable loss.

CausticS0da wrote:
OP is actually the one doing the griefing.
Yes, if there was such a thing as griefing, OP is the one doing it. And unintentionally collecting tears while they are at it. *applause*

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