These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

CCP! Please clarify the future plans for WiS!

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#1481 - 2011-12-20 01:14:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Fury
Flamespar wrote:
Illion wrote:
CCP are between a rock and a hard place.. they can only please some of the people some of the time.

They're just going to bide their time until the FiS lobby are satisfied and then slowly start to introduce more Incarna stuff.

You know that they *want* to do Incarna stuff.. that is where they see the future of eve, that's clearly demonstrated by the path they took before they got ***** slapped. Its fundamental to the all round 'sci-fi simulator'.

Don't worry, Incarna will come... they must have thousands of lines of Incarna code from the last aborted release sat their waiting to be implemented, only a couple of weeks away from release. It just needs to be slowly leaked out.

They cant answer this thread to say that because they will get hammered again by a very vocal group who post everywhere that their game is being ruined.

Ill.


Personally I think most of the players who want WiS would be satisfied if CCP were to say, we aim to have multiplayer establishments implemented in the next 12 months (at one stage these were 'ready to go' on singularity according to one Dev).

I think most of the announcements on EVE will be made at Fanfest, although it would be great to get something before then.

I mean, surely a 75 page thread on Incarna deserves some sort of reply.


You are not going to get that kind of commitment here because CCP does not even know if they will need to layoff more people or not to stay in business. If you want WIS to become a reality, you need to start buying a lot a PLEX, get a lot of old players to come back (CCP is working hard on this) or get new players to join for the content and features we have now.

EVE revenue alone has been funding development of 3 separate games for the last 3 years, which became unsustainable when they lost 25% of their concurrent online player numbers after the ham-fisted NEX/Incarna release. Adding to that, there was something like a $10Mil bank loan that came due in October they either refinanced or had to pony-up.

They are literally fighting for their jobs, and if you are very lucky CCP might have enough confidence and insight into their present situation to commit to something at fanfest. But don't count on it, CCP makes a lot of promises and hints at a lot of things at fanfest that don't become reality.

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Flamespar
WarRavens
#1482 - 2011-12-20 01:16:38 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
Flamespar wrote:
Illion wrote:
CCP are between a rock and a hard place.. they can only please some of the people some of the time.

They're just going to bide their time until the FiS lobby are satisfied and then slowly start to introduce more Incarna stuff.

You know that they *want* to do Incarna stuff.. that is where they see the future of eve, that's clearly demonstrated by the path they took before they got ***** slapped. Its fundamental to the all round 'sci-fi simulator'.

Don't worry, Incarna will come... they must have thousands of lines of Incarna code from the last aborted release sat their waiting to be implemented, only a couple of weeks away from release. It just needs to be slowly leaked out.

They cant answer this thread to say that because they will get hammered again by a very vocal group who post everywhere that their game is being ruined.

Ill.


Personally I think most of the players who want WiS would be satisfied if CCP were to say, we aim to have multiplayer establishments implemented in the next 12 months (at one stage these were 'ready to go' on singularity according to one Dev).

I think most of the announcements on EVE will be made at Fanfest, although it would be great to get something before then.

I mean, surely a 75 page thread on Incarna deserves some sort of reply.


You are not going to get that kind of commitment here because CCP does not even know if they will need to layoff more people or not to stay in business. If you want WIS to become a reality, you need to start buying a lot a PLEX, get a lot of old players to come back (CCP is working hard on this) or get new players to join for the content and features we have now.

EVE revenue alone has been funding development of 3 separate games for the last 3 years, which became unsustainable when they lost 25% of their concurrent online player numbers after the ham-fisted NEX/Incarna release. Adding to that, there was something like a $10Mil bank loan that came due in October they either refinanced or had to pony-up.

They are literally fighting for their jobs, and if you are very lucky CCP might have enough confidence and insight into their present situation to commit to something at fanfest. But don't count on it, CCP makes a lot of promises and hints at a lot of things at fanfest that don't become reality.


Work for CCP? No. Then quit the endless speculation.
Azahni Vah'nos
Vah'nos Family
#1483 - 2011-12-20 01:30:03 UTC
Flamespar wrote:
Illion wrote:
CCP are between a rock and a hard place.. they can only please some of the people some of the time.

They're just going to bide their time until the FiS lobby are satisfied and then slowly start to introduce more Incarna stuff.

You know that they *want* to do Incarna stuff.. that is where they see the future of eve, that's clearly demonstrated by the path they took before they got ***** slapped. Its fundamental to the all round 'sci-fi simulator'.

Don't worry, Incarna will come... they must have thousands of lines of Incarna code from the last aborted release sat their waiting to be implemented, only a couple of weeks away from release. It just needs to be slowly leaked out.

They cant answer this thread to say that because they will get hammered again by a very vocal group who post everywhere that their game is being ruined.

Ill.


Personally I think most of the players who want WiS would be satisfied if CCP were to say, we aim to have multiplayer establishments implemented in the next 12 months (at one stage these were 'ready to go' on singularity according to one Dev).

I think most of the announcements on EVE will be made at Fanfest, although it would be great to get something before then.

I mean, surely a 75 page thread on Incarna deserves some sort of reply.

If this was a one sided pro-WiS thread then I'm sure CCP would have responded, but it is not. There are many varied points of view in this thread and CCP needs to decide where WiS is headed before saying anything further about it.

The worst thing CCP could do at this time is make comments on WiS that may not become reality or would you prefer them to say they will do this and that without eventually delivering on those statements. Right now they do not need more potentially broken promises, they need to deliver on what they say they will do to garner back some of their lost reputation.

Nex (Cash Shop) / Aurum - removing sand from the sandbox since Incarna. Currently the only use for aurum is to buy virtual items in the in-game store, but Cockerill expects to expand its uses in the future.

Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#1484 - 2011-12-20 01:30:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Fury
Flamespar wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:
Flamespar wrote:
Illion wrote:
CCP are between a rock and a hard place.. they can only please some of the people some of the time.

They're just going to bide their time until the FiS lobby are satisfied and then slowly start to introduce more Incarna stuff.

You know that they *want* to do Incarna stuff.. that is where they see the future of eve, that's clearly demonstrated by the path they took before they got ***** slapped. Its fundamental to the all round 'sci-fi simulator'.

Don't worry, Incarna will come... they must have thousands of lines of Incarna code from the last aborted release sat their waiting to be implemented, only a couple of weeks away from release. It just needs to be slowly leaked out.

They cant answer this thread to say that because they will get hammered again by a very vocal group who post everywhere that their game is being ruined.

Ill.


Personally I think most of the players who want WiS would be satisfied if CCP were to say, we aim to have multiplayer establishments implemented in the next 12 months (at one stage these were 'ready to go' on singularity according to one Dev).

I think most of the announcements on EVE will be made at Fanfest, although it would be great to get something before then.

I mean, surely a 75 page thread on Incarna deserves some sort of reply.


You are not going to get that kind of commitment here because CCP does not even know if they will need to layoff more people or not to stay in business. If you want WIS to become a reality, you need to start buying a lot a PLEX, get a lot of old players to come back (CCP is working hard on this) or get new players to join for the content and features we have now.

EVE revenue alone has been funding development of 3 separate games for the last 3 years, which became unsustainable when they lost 25% of their concurrent online player numbers after the ham-fisted NEX/Incarna release. Adding to that, there was something like a $10Mil bank loan that came due in October they either refinanced or had to pony-up.

They are literally fighting for their jobs, and if you are very lucky CCP might have enough confidence and insight into their present situation to commit to something at fanfest. But don't count on it, CCP makes a lot of promises and hints at a lot of things at fanfest that don't become reality.


Work for CCP? No. Then quit the endless speculation.


It's hardly speculation, and I'm hardly the only one who has pointed this out. CCP laid off 20% of their staff almost closing the whitewolf office which is where WOD is being developed. WIS is the test platform and foundation for WOD. The loan was public information and you can review the PCU numbers after Incarna by visting eve-offline.com which showed 25% lower concurrent player levels not seen since 2008. Add to that, the Great Leader's "apology" letter where he talks about most all of this.

Wait till their financials are posted in Iceland after the end of the year and you can see for yourself without having to look around too much.

Or, maybe if you stamp your feet some more for WIS mommy will give you a biscuit.

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Cailais
The Red Pill Taker Group
#1485 - 2011-12-20 01:58:39 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:


It's hardly speculation, and I'm hardly the only one who has pointed this out. CCP laid off 20% of their staff almost closing the whitewolf office which is where WOD is being developed. WIS is the test platform and foundation for WOD. The loan was public information and you can review the PCU numbers after Incarna by visting eve-offline.com which showed 25% lower concurrent player levels not seen since 2008. Add to that, the Great Leader's "apology" letter where he talks about most all of this.

Wait till their financials are posted in Iceland after the end of the year and you can see for yourself without having to look around too much.

Or, maybe if you stamp your feet some more for WIS mommy will give you a biscuit.


That might be true, but that rather assumes that WiS development was only a by product of WOD development and had no value in and of itself to EVE Online.

There is the view point that CCPs change in direction (post summer of rage) was entirely and solely to do with WiS - but the subject is rather more complex than that. Yes there were, and are, many detractors from WiS (namely an Avatar based element of EVE). But the summer of rage consisted of numerous player complaints - the introduction of MTs to the game, the lack of attention to other 'hot topics' and so forth.

I think that CCP will first wait on delivering DUST514, whilst making incremental steps to EVE Onlines FiS. Once DUST514 is out the door I think returning to some form of 'WiS' (perhaps a rather different evolution to how it has been envisaged to date) will come to the fore. It seems unlikely that CCP can, or will, just leave WiS as a series of CQs - that said they are under no time pressure to resolve that particular quandary.

C.
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#1486 - 2011-12-20 02:45:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Fury
Cailais wrote:


That might be true, but that rather assumes that WiS development was only a by product of WOD development and had no value in and of itself to EVE Online.



We are the guinea pigs for WOD, we always have been. We are its proving ground for the underlying tech and we will reap any "benefits" that come out of it. Presently we are nothing better than beta testers who pay for the privilege. Whatever value WIS it is supposed to bring to EVE, CCP cannot seem to clearly quantify what that will be, and after so many years that has people who want it and have their own vision of it understandably miffed.

Cailais wrote:

There is the view point that CCPs change in direction (post summer of rage) was entirely and solely to do with WiS - but the subject is rather more complex thhan that. Yes there were, and are, many detractors from WiS (namely an Avatar based element of EVE). But the summer of rage consisted of numerous player complaints - the introduction of MTs to the game, the lack of attention to other 'hot topics' and so forth.



That's not my viewpoint, but I agree there are many who blame it all on WIS. A significant part of it was that CCP was too busy saying how awesome everything was (even though Incarna was half-baked) instead of addressing real player concerns over stuff that has been plaguing the game for years. It felt to some long time players like CCP just abandoned EVE's core game play for some quick dosh.

There were a lot of reasons, and it just fanned the flames when the Great Leader was caught red handed taking his customers for granted. Time will tell if his apology was just lip service or not.

Cailais wrote:


I think that CCP will first wait on delivering DUST514, whilst making incremental steps to EVE Onlines FiS. Once DUST514 is out the door I think returning to some form of 'WiS' (perhaps a rather different evolution to how it has been envisaged to date) will come to the fore. It seems unlikely that CCP can, or will, just leave WiS as a series of CQs - that said they are under no time pressure to resolve that particular quandary.



I am convinced they are going to continue full-steam on DUST development right now because they are too far invested not to, and they have contractual obligations with Sony. If we see WIS iterations anytime soon it will be because the money is there to do it. That's either because DUST is a profitable success, and/or EVE player numbers and revenue return to levels that can sustain all 3 games and all the staff necessary. EVE will see FIS iterations, whether or not they are as appealing as Crucible was will be interesting indeed. I'd love to see what CCP can do in 6 months with FIS working under the gun like they just did.


This has all been hashed and re-hashed before, and it all boils down to money and contractual obligations. If People want WIS sooner than later, CCP needs the cash to do it.

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#1487 - 2011-12-20 03:09:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Fury
edit: double post

CCP fix your gorram forums!

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Sallaria Gengod
Doomheim
#1488 - 2011-12-20 03:23:31 UTC
I might be new, but one of the things that attracted me to this game was the fact that it was trying to do things that no other MMO has tried. DUST 514 tying into the game of Eve Online and walking in stations. I can tell you now...that there are thousands of people, literally, waiting for WiS to come out before they even set foot in this game. THOUSANDS! So getting WiS up and running isnt just some flash in the pan idea that CCP should be shelving, it should be being developed for release as the first expanssion next year. Its that simple.

For those of you saying that CCP lost 25% of its players because of Incarna, I call BS on that unless you can show me the figures. Can you? No? Didnt think so. And even if they did lose that many, Cruicible took a BIG step in getting them back.

In short, I want WiS. I want to own my own Bar in Rens! MAKE IT HAPPEN CCP!!
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#1489 - 2011-12-20 03:35:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Fury
Sallaria Gengod wrote:

For those of you saying that CCP lost 25% of its players because of Incarna, I call BS on that unless you can show me the figures. Can you?


I can!

25% of concurrent players online does not equal 25% of all EVE players grasshopper. These are different things, but one does correlate to the other.

Also, I already disclosed where you can see this for yourself, but since you are new, I will post it again it for you:

eve-offline.net

(Click on Tranquility on the left menu. )


Look at the "All Time Daily Average" you will notice after June this year, it falls to 2008/2009 numbers which is about a average of 25K or so. We used to see 35K.

It is also interesting to note the last big peak was in January.

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Diana Dour
Doomheim
#1490 - 2011-12-20 03:36:51 UTC
Sallaria Gengod wrote:
I might be new, but one of the things that attracted me to this game was the fact that it was trying to do things that no other MMO has tried. DUST 514 tying into the game of Eve Online and walking in stations. I can tell you now...that there are thousands of people, literally, waiting for WiS to come out before they even set foot in this game. THOUSANDS! So getting WiS up and running isnt just some flash in the pan idea that CCP should be shelving, it should be being developed for release as the first expanssion next year. Its that simple.

For those of you saying that CCP lost 25% of its players because of Incarna, I call BS on that unless you can show me the figures. Can you? No? Didnt think so. And even if they did lose that many, Cruicible took a BIG step in getting them back.

In short, I want WiS. I want to own my own Bar in Rens! MAKE IT HAPPEN CCP!!


What failed was Hilmar and Soundwave's version of WiS. Which was NeX and...modeling? Player interaction, somehow was last on the list, establishments crossed off the list. Literally replaced by CCP brand skirts printed at the MT shop and a prison cell. They hired fashion designers for god ******* sakes... they abandoned a working engine and started a new untested one for some silly ass fad vampire game. It took them a decade to develop the "Loot All" function, they shouldn't be working on new games or selling skirts.

That's what lost them a chunk of their subscribers, not EVE WiS, or the idea of it.
Flamespar
WarRavens
#1491 - 2011-12-20 04:34:55 UTC
Diana Dour wrote:

What failed was Hilmar and Soundwave's version of WiS. Which was NeX and...modeling? Player interaction, somehow was last on the list, establishments crossed off the list. Literally replaced by CCP brand skirts printed at the MT shop and a prison cell. They hired fashion designers for god ******* sakes... they abandoned a working engine and started a new untested one for some silly ass fad vampire game. It took them a decade to develop the "Loot All" function, they shouldn't be working on new games or selling skirts.

That's what lost them a chunk of their subscribers, not EVE WiS, or the idea of it.


I don't know why players are saying the WoD is the reason the Incarna was developed. WiS/Ambulation/Incarna has been a concept that has been talked about, for far longer than WoD.

Also I don't know how 'working' that earlier engine was, since all we saw was still a single player environment (with graphics that were inferior to Incarna if you ask me).
Jonni Favorite
Red Slice Enterprise
#1492 - 2011-12-20 04:37:14 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:


Or, maybe if you stamp your feet some more for WIS mommy will give you a biscuit.


Unlikely.

I was also quite excited about adding another dimension to Eve, but let's be real. Between FIS, Dust, WoD, Incarna (in whatever.. ehm excuse the pun.. incarnation it may evolve into), is way on backburner, probably not dead in the grand scheme of things but I wouldn't hold my breath for it right now. It simply is not a priority, plus the botched attempt at the Incarna release last summer, pushed many of the players that were already on the fence about the idea, right over it, turning them into vocal opposition.

Unfortunate, but that's the state of affairs on this I believe..
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#1493 - 2011-12-20 04:45:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Fury
Flamespar wrote:
Diana Dour wrote:

What failed was Hilmar and Soundwave's version of WiS. Which was NeX and...modeling? Player interaction, somehow was last on the list, establishments crossed off the list. Literally replaced by CCP brand skirts printed at the MT shop and a prison cell. They hired fashion designers for god ******* sakes... they abandoned a working engine and started a new untested one for some silly ass fad vampire game. It took them a decade to develop the "Loot All" function, they shouldn't be working on new games or selling skirts.

That's what lost them a chunk of their subscribers, not EVE WiS, or the idea of it.


I don't know why players are saying the WoD is the reason the Incarna was developed.


CCP purchased Whitewolf. CCP decided to make Whitewolf's WOD Vampire MMO. CCP needed tech to make WOD and "virtual worlds other than EVE" but all it had was Trinity. CCP converts aspects of EVE's Trinity engine to become "Carbon".

Linky

"This code has then been refined and extended to serve the needs of other CCP projects."

EVE WIS (Carbon character technology) is the test bed and foundation for WOD. Until it works here, it won't work there.

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Azahni Vah'nos
Vah'nos Family
#1494 - 2011-12-20 04:49:07 UTC
Sallaria Gengod wrote:
I might be new, but one of the things that attracted me to this game was the fact that it was trying to do things that no other MMO has tried. DUST 514 tying into the game of Eve Online and walking in stations. I can tell you now...that there are thousands of people, literally, waiting for WiS to come out before they even set foot in this game. THOUSANDS! So getting WiS up and running isnt just some flash in the pan idea that CCP should be shelving, it should be being developed for release as the first expanssion next year. Its that simple.

For those of you saying that CCP lost 25% of its players because of Incarna, I call BS on that unless you can show me the figures. Can you? No? Didnt think so. And even if they did lose that many, Cruicible took a BIG step in getting them back.

In short, I want WiS. I want to own my own Bar in Rens! MAKE IT HAPPEN CCP!!

Stating that the 25% sub loss is bs without the figures whilst also stating that WiS will bring in thousands of players without figures of your own does not bode well for your argument.

The actual PCU numbers over that last 12 months go against your comments and whilst I believe a fully functioning WiS can garner more interest in EVE it will not be the 'second coming of the messiah' with regards to subscriber numbers.

Nex (Cash Shop) / Aurum - removing sand from the sandbox since Incarna. Currently the only use for aurum is to buy virtual items in the in-game store, but Cockerill expects to expand its uses in the future.

Taiwanistan
#1495 - 2011-12-20 07:02:11 UTC
QQ more like the north koreans

TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
Arcathra
Technodyne Ltd.
#1496 - 2011-12-20 08:01:12 UTC
Taiwanistan wrote:
QQ more like the north koreans

The only people whing in this thread are the WiS haters because some people are asking CCP about the status and future of WiS and showing them that there are in fact players who still want it.
Vyra Valyr
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1497 - 2011-12-20 08:22:28 UTC
Vyra Valyr wrote:
It's pretty sad to see the Great Vision for EVE falling apart so fast. WiS Expectations were build up over years and are now disintegrating in days and weeks.

I only see one fu**ing problem with establishments and multiplayer for Incarna. And this my Dear friends is their Engine. I mean the Characters look wonderful in Character Creation and still pretty good in our own little CQ but what the Hell have you guys programmed ? Look at some other games out there that pretty much offer the same Quality for half of the Hardware costs.

Since Captain Quarters are here and running (maybe not smooth and expensive but they are running) its not a far way to travel to acutally recieve some multiplayer Gameplay. Maybe even Create a Channel System für Crowded Places ? From a Design POV you guys have Everything ? Well atleast i thought so after hearing everything about Incarna and what CCP wanted to create with it. Mini Games, Bars, Agents, New In-Character Tutorial etc. you have your goddamn Technology running (again with crappy eprfomance but it runs)= ! You can't leave it now undone. IMHO the Whole Thing about Incarna was "we want a good start" well you had a bad start, but it started, you promised something and youi should deliver it. Again and again and again : Even with Focus on FiS i don't see a problem in realsing Incarna Content over time, because actually it feels like it's already here and the Rooms only need some assembling then you have to get some NPC's sitting around and animate them and such but you don*'t have to code a brand-new engine anymore or worry about how to integrate it, because that was the Big Part and that is done now !

Just Focus on FiS but, dont ever think about changing your direction because your Future Vision of EVE touched many Players and it will still become legendary once Dust 514 and Incarna 2.0 are out since you're the only guys who are actually able to do it or atleast willing to.

Just my 2 Cents, i Love you guys and i want some goddamn Tech 3 Frigs ! I Read about some around the Time the Tech 3 Cruisers were Live <.<


That's what i already posted in another Incarna related Topic. I just had to bring it up here Again. Anyone who is still Crying that FiS is Broken or doesn't get the Attention it deserves now should think about it for a moment. CCP can NOW actually Focus on FiS and still bring WiS Content in a good timeframe. I for one am one of the old Players that actually came Back for Incarna its just a Great Vision, creating the greatest Sci-Fi Simulator on Earth.
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1498 - 2011-12-20 10:11:50 UTC
Arcathra wrote:
Taiwanistan wrote:
QQ more like the north koreans

The only people whing in this thread are the WiS haters because some people are asking CCP about the status and future of WiS and showing them that there are in fact players who still want it.

The "WiS haters" (who are really just pro spaceship content) aren't whining. We won.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1499 - 2011-12-20 11:03:29 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Arcathra wrote:
Taiwanistan wrote:
QQ more like the north koreans

The only people whing in this thread are the WiS haters because some people are asking CCP about the status and future of WiS and showing them that there are in fact players who still want it.

The "WiS haters" (who are really just pro spaceship content) aren't whining. We won.


Can you show us an diploma or some medal or other kind of prize you won ? Please ????
Anyway most of the people in this thread who like the idea of WiS won the same thing you did, because clearly they didnt like what Incarna became one bit... But the idea behind it "cough" Ambulation did have support.
Arcathra
Technodyne Ltd.
#1500 - 2011-12-20 11:17:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Arcathra
Ladie Harlot wrote:
The "WiS haters" (who are really just pro spaceship content) aren't whining. We won.

Oh sorry, I confused your tears for actual whining, must have been the tears of joy because of your victory that I have seen... Twisted


To be serious: We all have won in a way. We now have the chance to get a lot more polish on our FiS gameplay and have the chance to get some meaningful WiS gameplay after all.