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CSM X - What are you voting for?

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Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#161 - 2015-01-23 07:23:00 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
If anyone needs local numerical superiority it's covert cyno ships that are much less tanky than conventional ships. It isn't that i didn't think through the possibilities, it's that I did and still saw how bad they were.

But they can warp while cloaked. Main reason I think covert cyno hotdrops should be limited in size is because they so easily evade intel that you never know if they're coming except when the system is completely free of non-blues. It seems unreasonable to me that one red in local could potentially turn into 250 reds in an instant and not at a gate or other beacon visible on the overview, and there's no way for you to calculate the probability with available intel.

I would have limited the size to 10 ships per covert cyno, which is plenty enough for a good gank and to hold ground while waiting out a brief timer of, say, 1 minute until they can light a regular cyno or more covert cynos. Also, easy way around the limitation is to bring multiple covert ops ships through the gates in the first place. Depending on how that pans out, might have to limit to 5 per covert cyno after all, but I'm optimistic about it.



And the defender can do the same, fit his own cyno, lay his trap.

The type of gameplay you advocate gives less power to small groups, furthers a carebear mentality and cements the strength of powerblocs even more. I don't speak as a "goon" or an N3 member but as someone that flies in groups of 2-5 often dealing with enemies that are better equipped and numerically superior.

My mind is eased knowing for certain such a mentality will never have a relevant voice in affecting Eve's gameplay.
Tora Bushido
The Marmite Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#162 - 2015-01-23 10:09:22 UTC
After reading the first page, I had the impression that the OP was a troll on steroids and stopped reading the rest. So any good points you might have made after page 1 are wasted on me. If you want people to listen to you, you might want to consider making a more serious OP.

DELETE THE WEAK, ADAPT OR DIE !

Meta Gaming Level VII, Psycho Warfare Level X, Smack Talk Level VII.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#163 - 2015-01-23 10:38:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
And the defender can do the same, fit his own cyno, lay his trap.

The type of gameplay you advocate gives less power to small groups, furthers a carebear mentality and cements the strength of powerblocs even more. I don't speak as a "goon" or an N3 member but as someone that flies in groups of 2-5 often dealing with enemies that are better equipped and numerically superior.

My mind is eased knowing for certain such a mentality will never have a relevant voice in affecting Eve's gameplay.

I'm not convinced that is the case. An aggressor is not limited to ten covert aggressors total, but rather is limited to ten covert aggressors per covert cyno per minute. The major thing I see coming out of this is a small window to react to a covert hotdrop. Anyone who wants to bypass it can merely use a non-covert hotdrop.

This will make it easier to fly capital ships in small groups, which may or may not be used more by large alliances (probably will). This in turn will lead to capital deaths which will make it easier for small groups to roam free. I'm speculating here, I'm uncertain of the effects and I really do support anything that gives large blocs like TEST less power. We have plenty to share.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Dradis Aulmais
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#164 - 2015-01-23 13:24:15 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:

Dradis Aulmais wrote:
And how is someone who is actually AFK going to hurt you? I don't see the argument here.
The AFK cloaker:
- is perfectly safe
- has the potential to drop at any moment
- can not be evicted or hunted even in your home system.

I am looking for ways that they need to play actively to get the benefits of what they do. They shouldn't get a free lunch in our home.

(Other posts, I will read fully and respond after some sleep).



Nether could a station docker everywhere but your home system and if I really don't want u to remove me from your home system you never will.

Remove the cyno from everything smaller than a cruiser.

Dradis Aulmais, Federal Attorney Number 54896

Free The Scope Three
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#165 - 2015-01-23 15:14:15 UTC
Docking is not like cloaking, because a cloaked pilot (in a covert ops ship) can roam about and watch what's going on, gather intel, relay intel, set up for an ambush, and make plans. A docked player can only do what doesn't include gathering intel or moving into a strategic position.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Dradis Aulmais
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#166 - 2015-01-23 16:03:06 UTC
I can from dock see who's in systems cross check their kill boards to see what ships they most offten use. From there I can tell when these players gather they most offten do this. Flying this. So now I know a fleet is being form. Ok why would the form a fleet. Well I know this timer here and here is about to pop. Now I know if they are going for this timer they will have to Travel here to get to the timer. Ambush set.

Intel gathered

Dradis Aulmais, Federal Attorney Number 54896

Free The Scope Three
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#167 - 2015-01-23 16:11:59 UTC
If you consider that intel to be on par with intel gathered from and strategic placement of ships in covert cloak, then you're just bad at using intel and strategic placement options.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Dradis Aulmais
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#168 - 2015-01-23 16:16:30 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
If you consider that intel to be on par with intel gathered from and strategic placement of ships in covert cloak, then you're just bad at using intel and strategic placement options.



Not as good yes

But when the cloak gets nerfed it will be the next thing you will be crying about

Dradis Aulmais, Federal Attorney Number 54896

Free The Scope Three
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#169 - 2015-01-23 16:17:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
Dradis Aulmais wrote:
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
If you consider that intel to be on par with intel gathered from and strategic placement of ships in covert cloak, then you're just bad at using intel and strategic placement options.



Not as good yes

But when the cloak gets nerfed it will be the next thing you will be crying about

Are you sure about that? What's the last nerf I ever cried about?

edit: startling realization on my part: I don't think I have ever disliked any nerfs thus far in EVE.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Dradis Aulmais
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#170 - 2015-01-23 16:26:32 UTC
You was being used in the communal sense suh as you all sry I wasnt clear

I don't personaly follow your every post

Dradis Aulmais, Federal Attorney Number 54896

Free The Scope Three
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#171 - 2015-01-23 16:38:10 UTC
I don't think most of Jenshae's supporters will complain about covert cloak nerfs.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Dradis Aulmais
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#172 - 2015-01-23 16:59:59 UTC
Rephrase when cloaking gets nerfed , dock campers will be the next thing you will cry about.

Dradis Aulmais, Federal Attorney Number 54896

Free The Scope Three
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#173 - 2015-01-23 17:05:42 UTC
I'm interested to learn how dock campers are really all that scary.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Dradis Aulmais
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#174 - 2015-01-23 17:19:48 UTC
I feel the same way about cloakers

Dradis Aulmais, Federal Attorney Number 54896

Free The Scope Three
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#175 - 2015-01-23 18:58:41 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Docking is not like cloaking, because a cloaked pilot (in a covert ops ship) can roam about and watch what's going on, gather intel, relay intel, set up for an ambush, and make plans. A docked player can only do what doesn't include gathering intel or moving into a strategic position.



Here's what you're having problems understanding though. Both the attacker AND the defender can use cloaked ships. If there is a tool in the game and I use it better than you, that's not the tool's fault. It's yours.
Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#176 - 2015-01-23 19:56:13 UTC
The way that the OP responds to comments, whether he agrees with them or disagrees, shows me that he would be terrible member of the CSM. Summary dismissal of people without views other than your own is the exact opposite of what a good CSM candidate needs to demonstrate. Seeing how the OP seems to think the CSM should be dissolved anyways I think that anyone who is considering voting for him should seriously reconsider. There are other people who hold similar views who would actually be useful contributors to the game and it's development.

I urge everyone to NOT vote for the OP.

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#177 - 2015-01-23 20:05:55 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Here's what you're having problems understanding though. Both the attacker AND the defender can use cloaked ships. If there is a tool in the game and I use it better than you, that's not the tool's fault. It's yours.

Wrong. A planned attack can heavily involve covert ops ships, but it is not nearly as possible to respond to a covert ops attack with covert ops ships because the defenders did not have enough warning time to suspect a covert ops attack.

My problem with the current cloaking mechanic is not that it hurts some people more than others (it doesn't) but that it stagnates PVP in general and leads to fewer kills due to increased danger, due to decreased intel.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Jenshae Chiroptera
#178 - 2015-01-24 09:53:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
I love that my detractors are from CODE. and Marmite, it tells me I am on the right course. Lol

A few tactics I have seen recently with AFK cloakers:

- every system camped
- two cloakers, one sneaks up and tackles, the other cynos at range, they hit, score and MJD away. Counter drop lands on nothing
- AFK cloaker sits around for ages, people decide to fly some cheap stuff to make some ISK, a loan saber rushes up the systems (or logs on), warps to the cloaker at range which lands him on the targets and tackles a few ratters working together or a mining fleet. Then the cyno goes up at range for an MJD escape.

T3s under most situations can't be killed before the blop gets in. As far as I know there is also no way to jam a covert cyno with say a scrambler or neuting the cyno ship.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#179 - 2015-01-26 17:55:23 UTC
From Reddit:
mr throwz wrote:

Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
For example; it can take a sabre 1.7 seconds to get across 16 AU in warp. It takes 20 seconds for a miner to click on a location and get into warp. If the pilots both react at the same speed to each other, there is literally no hope for the miner.

Assuming the Sabre warps to the correct belt, and lands within point range of the miner - bubbles don't affect people who initiative/enter warp before the bubble is activated. Also the Procurer aligns in 9 seconds so your math is wrong.


It relies on some factors, yes. Worm holes can be close to the sun and D-scan can be quick. If there is a resident AFK cloaker they can go right to the perfect spot directly. For miners, there is the day dreaming factor. You relax, slow down, have to find and click the right book mark or thing from the overview.

The attacker is jazzed up, full of adrenalin and intent aimed right on the hunt.

Miners will have slower reactions, just how humans work.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#180 - 2015-01-26 18:06:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Seraph IX Basarab
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Here's what you're having problems understanding though. Both the attacker AND the defender can use cloaked ships. If there is a tool in the game and I use it better than you, that's not the tool's fault. It's yours.

Wrong. A planned attack can heavily involve covert ops ships, but it is not nearly as possible to respond to a covert ops attack with covert ops ships because the defenders did not have enough warning time to suspect a covert ops attack.

My problem with the current cloaking mechanic is not that it hurts some people more than others (it doesn't) but that it stagnates PVP in general and leads to fewer kills due to increased danger, due to decreased intel.


Posting in a thread where people complain about well planned attacks working.

Roll


Without cloaky ships and cynos you get large portions of 0.0 where carebears and botters can sit around all day and make isk without any risk. Local lets them know when they enter system, intel channels let them know when the enemy is 10 jumps away and thus they can dock/pos up and bears roll in isk minimizing pvp.