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Crime & Punishment

 
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For the Record - We Won!

Author
Marlin Spikes
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2015-01-23 11:48:45 UTC
January 1st a new U-MAD director wanted to lead a crusade against Marmite and battle test the new recruits by cracking that Marmite egg and spreading all that delicious down-under yolk between our toes.

Always seeking content, we agreed that POH would once again start up the war machine and start our yearly crusade against Marmite. This time would be different. POH had enlisted many new recruits who were more adept at playing station games than hunter-killer small gang operation that have been proven successful. This war with Marmite would battle test the new recruits.

And we were doing so well until…

Marmite attacks one of our fleets – yep, the station campers. No surprise that Marmite brought overwhelming numbers, logistics, jams, alts, their alts alts and some cheering soccer moms. After winning that engagement, Marmite pounded on their chests and patted each other’s backs as they celebrated their well-deserved win against some of POH station campers.

It was understandable. I don’t remember if Marmite had ever won a fleet fight against us. This may have been their very first. I think there were also some unconfirmed rumors of cheers bleeding over on TS, “Tora, Tora, He’s our man…”

Meanwhile, it was obviously time to clean house. Pilots that regularly played station games were encouraged to join/form corporations outside of The Pursuit of Happiness. The line had been drawn. It was time to return to our core style of pvp (i.e., winning). To our surprise, many members did leave. Deadly Fingertips along with some close friends left the alliance. We wish them all the best of luck.

It’s better to be small and effective rather than big and useless [comments welcomed].

Marmite immediately went on a smear campaign with videos and articles in the Eve Forums, Eve Skunk, Eve News, and Reddit. The Marmite cheering stand was loud, obnoxious and to be honest, somewhat premature. This war was far from over.

We decided to stay quiet, take the high road and let the facts and our great looking pilots be our voice. Now that our war is over, here are the numbers:
1. POH have been at war with Marmite 3 times
2. Each of those wars has been initiated by POH
3. POH has won every war with Marmite, both in isk and ships killed
4. During the first war, POH killed 112 (14,782,780,771.20 ISK) vs Marmite 9 (1.4 B ISK)
5. War 2: POH killed 13 (3.1 B ISK) vs Marmite 3 (0.3 B ISK)
6. War 3: POH killed 25 (5,5 B ISK) vs 12 (4.6 B ISK)
7. Overall: POH killed 150 (23.3 B ISK) vs 24 (6.3 B ISK)

How did we do it? We added more win. We reaffirmed our commitment to small gang hunter-killer precision engagements that had made us such an effective pvp corp. After re-sharpening our skills in null and WH space, we re-focused our attention back on the war.

As the Marmite losses began to trickle in, the forum chest pounding slowed, and then stopped.

With chests now firmly kicked in, Marmites scattered to the safety of their stations as our mains or known alts came within 2 jumps of their locations. Even the Marmite station campers modified their tactics, by immediately warping off station as soon as they aggro with POH nearby.

Except for the sounds of exploding Marmite, all is quiet.

TL; DR: The Pursuit of Happiness – 3; Mermaids - 0

Bombers Rule!!!

Miko Jin
HELVEGEN
Hell Dawn
#2 - 2015-01-23 12:39:39 UTC
Well done!


Now where is that more relevant Deadly Fingertips thread I saw it somewhere!
Dradis Aulmais
Serious Non-stop Espionage and Kidnapping
#3 - 2015-01-23 13:15:19 UTC
Finally a we won post with some figures to back it up

Dradis Aulmais, Federal Attorney Number 54896

Free The Scope Three

Tora Bushido
The Marmite Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#4 - 2015-01-23 13:24:04 UTC
And as long as we have to many station huggers and way more numbers then POH, you will probably keep winning those wars. I always said POH's strength was in their smaller numbers and flying together as a solid fleet with proper doctrines. It's very hard to counter. When you guys let so many station huggers in POH, it was very predictable that you would lose way more then you normally do. So we took advantage of the situation. And hell yeh, we will smack talk, meta game and anything we enjoy doing. Nothing personal, its just fun!

Good war, I enjoyed it!

Tora

Ps. Good luck on the next war Blink

DELETE THE WEAK, ADAPT OR DIE !

Meta Gaming Level VII, Psycho Warfare Level X, Smack Talk Level VII.

Renegade Heart
Doomheim
#5 - 2015-01-23 14:03:14 UTC
Marlin Spikes wrote:
It’s better to be small and effective rather than big and useless [comments welcomed].


PoH didn't really kill much this month compared to some of the other merc entities out there. I don't see how you think big means useless.

I can understand if you want to minimise losses, then risk-aversion will help you. Station undocks can be dangerous places after all. But you talk of "station campers" as if they are a tangible group of players, and I think you are being unfair. Maybe due to the vast amount of kills these guys rack up on undocks you fail to see on their killboards when they do other stuff?

Many of these so-called station campers you speak of are quite adept at hunting out targets, roaming, and all other forms of PvP. The fact they brave the dangerous station undocks too makes them more rounded PvP'ers.

And it is clearly an effective tactic, since the top merc groups that allow station camping get way more kills than those who avoid it. Granted, they might lose more too, but the risk reward is fair I think. Good station campers destroy way more than they lose.

If you just want to focus on hunting easier targets though, with scouts in every direction to watch for incoming, so you can overwhelm your foe and avoid loss, then fair enough. I won't knock it. Just remember that others out there don't care about losing ships, and they do damn good work in all areas of PvP!
Fybs
Ex Presidents.
Hell Dawn
#6 - 2015-01-23 14:36:35 UTC
Marlin Spikes wrote:
January 1st a new U-MAD director wanted to lead a crusade against Marmite and battle test the new recruits by cracking that Marmite egg and spreading all that delicious down-under yolk between our toes.

Always seeking content, we agreed that POH would once again start up the war machine and start our yearly crusade against Marmite. This time would be different. POH had enlisted many new recruits who were more adept at playing station games than hunter-killer small gang operation that have been proven successful. This war with Marmite would battle test the new recruits.

And we were doing so well until…

Marmite attacks one of our fleets – yep, the station campers. No surprise that Marmite brought overwhelming numbers, logistics, jams, alts, their alts alts and some cheering soccer moms. After winning that engagement, Marmite pounded on their chests and patted each other’s backs as they celebrated their well-deserved win against some of POH station campers.

It was understandable. I don’t remember if Marmite had ever won a fleet fight against us. This may have been their very first. I think there were also some unconfirmed rumors of cheers bleeding over on TS, “Tora, Tora, He’s our man…”

Meanwhile, it was obviously time to clean house. Pilots that regularly played station games were encouraged to join/form corporations outside of The Pursuit of Happiness. The line had been drawn. It was time to return to our core style of pvp (i.e., winning). To our surprise, many members did leave. Deadly Fingertips along with some close friends left the alliance. We wish them all the best of luck.

It’s better to be small and effective rather than big and useless [comments welcomed].

Marmite immediately went on a smear campaign with videos and articles in the Eve Forums, Eve Skunk, Eve News, and Reddit. The Marmite cheering stand was loud, obnoxious and to be honest, somewhat premature. This war was far from over.

We decided to stay quiet, take the high road and let the facts and our great looking pilots be our voice. Now that our war is over, here are the numbers:
1. POH have been at war with Marmite 3 times
2. Each of those wars has been initiated by POH
3. POH has won every war with Marmite, both in isk and ships killed
4. During the first war, POH killed 112 (14,782,780,771.20 ISK) vs Marmite 9 (1.4 B ISK)
5. War 2: POH killed 13 (3.1 B ISK) vs Marmite 3 (0.3 B ISK)
6. War 3: POH killed 25 (5,5 B ISK) vs 12 (4.6 B ISK)
7. Overall: POH killed 150 (23.3 B ISK) vs 24 (6.3 B ISK)

How did we do it? We added more win. We reaffirmed our commitment to small gang hunter-killer precision engagements that had made us such an effective pvp corp. After re-sharpening our skills in null and WH space, we re-focused our attention back on the war.

As the Marmite losses began to trickle in, the forum chest pounding slowed, and then stopped.

With chests now firmly kicked in, Marmites scattered to the safety of their stations as our mains or known alts came within 2 jumps of their locations. Even the Marmite station campers modified their tactics, by immediately warping off station as soon as they aggro with POH nearby.

Except for the sounds of exploding Marmite, all is quiet.

TL; DR: The Pursuit of Happiness – 3; Mermaids - 0


What a nice spin you put on things. GJ

Don't confuse kindness with weakness.

Beware the hand of Fybs.

Proud CEO of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Neo Kathura
Doomheim
#7 - 2015-01-23 14:49:05 UTC
Fybs wrote:
What a nice spin you put on things. GJ
Are the stats made up?
Tora Bushido
The Marmite Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#8 - 2015-01-23 15:03:48 UTC
Neo Kathura wrote:
Fybs wrote:
What a nice spin you put on things. GJ
Are the stats made up?
I think Fybs means that they had to get all the old stats in here, to cover up the last war. The smaller version of this post could have been :

Good war, was close this time.

Then again, spinning is fun, we also do it Twisted

DELETE THE WEAK, ADAPT OR DIE !

Meta Gaming Level VII, Psycho Warfare Level X, Smack Talk Level VII.

Neo Kathura
Doomheim
#9 - 2015-01-23 15:37:29 UTC
Tora Bushido wrote:
Neo Kathura wrote:
Fybs wrote:
What a nice spin you put on things. GJ
Are the stats made up?
I think Fybs means that they had to get all the old stats in here, to cover up the last war. The smaller version of this post could have been :

Good war, was close this time.

Then again, spinning is fun, we also do it Twisted
Thanks for the clarification, I didn't see that through his tears.

Yeah, C&P is generally full of epic tales of misadventure, because one liners are boring. This was an interesting read. Is there a Marmite side of the story in the works?
Fybs
Ex Presidents.
Hell Dawn
#10 - 2015-01-23 15:38:15 UTC
Neo Kathura wrote:
Fybs wrote:
What a nice spin you put on things. GJ
Are the stats made up?



The stats say PoH was only 55% eff against us in the last war not there normal 100%.

They was never going to end the war behind (washing away there sins or something).

Abit of respect wouldn't have hurt IMO. it wasn't me who write the blog or did the dodi troll video. a lot in both of these things are wrong and or missing.

But it was me and my guys that made the effort to show a new type of marmite in which I feel we succeeded in doing.

Don't confuse kindness with weakness.

Beware the hand of Fybs.

Proud CEO of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Skandel
Doomheim
#11 - 2015-01-23 16:08:02 UTC
Abridged version goes something like this:

POH waged jihad against awful mercs.
A small proportion of aforementioned awful mercs got **** together and stomped on PoH hublards.
Awful mercs puffed chestz.
PoH mad.
PoH kicked hublards / they left / whatevs.
Much subsequent complaining about unfairness, logistics, numbers and warm holes.
PoH formed small angry gangs to kill stupids.
Stupids died.
War won.
PoH hand out medals and pin then on puffed chestz.
Forum post mortem begins.

Amirite?
Neo Kathura
Doomheim
#12 - 2015-01-23 16:15:22 UTC
Fybs wrote:
The stats say PoH was only 55% eff against us in the last war not there normal 100%.

They was never going to end the war behind (washing away there sins or something).

Abit of respect wouldn't have hurt IMO. it wasn't me who write the blog or did the dodi troll video. a lot in both of these things are wrong and or missing.

But it was me and my guys that made the effort to show a new type of marmite in which I feel we succeeded in doing.
So no, the stats were as described and you're mad that they simply put those stats up rather than explicitly stating the differences in effectiveness between wars as "They didn't beat us as much as they did last time" is the only claim to success you have, and the "new type of marmite" is still terrible. Would you say that's an accurate summary?
Dradis Aulmais
Serious Non-stop Espionage and Kidnapping
#13 - 2015-01-23 16:18:52 UTC
It's like watching the American congress argue over global warming.

This study shows its not happening

Well that guy got his dog washed by an alien so everything he says is wrong.

Dradis Aulmais, Federal Attorney Number 54896

Free The Scope Three

Miko Jin
HELVEGEN
Hell Dawn
#14 - 2015-01-23 16:50:10 UTC
Neo Kathura wrote:
Fybs wrote:
The stats say PoH was only 55% eff against us in the last war not there normal 100%.

They was never going to end the war behind (washing away there sins or something).

Abit of respect wouldn't have hurt IMO. it wasn't me who write the blog or did the dodi troll video. a lot in both of these things are wrong and or missing.

But it was me and my guys that made the effort to show a new type of marmite in which I feel we succeeded in doing.
So no, the stats were as described and you're mad that they simply put those stats up rather than explicitly stating the differences in effectiveness between wars as "They didn't beat us as much as they did last time" is the only claim to success you have, and the "new type of marmite" is still terrible. Would you say that's an accurate summary?


Get's more popcorn and awaits the "New Marmite" explaination
Fybs
Ex Presidents.
Hell Dawn
#15 - 2015-01-23 17:31:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Fybs
Miko Jin wrote:
Neo Kathura wrote:
Fybs wrote:
The stats say PoH was only 55% eff against us in the last war not there normal 100%.

They was never going to end the war behind (washing away there sins or something).

Abit of respect wouldn't have hurt IMO. it wasn't me who write the blog or did the dodi troll video. a lot in both of these things are wrong and or missing.

But it was me and my guys that made the effort to show a new type of marmite in which I feel we succeeded in doing.
So no, the stats were as described and you're mad that they simply put those stats up rather than explicitly stating the differences in effectiveness between wars as "They didn't beat us as much as they did last time" is the only claim to success you have, and the "new type of marmite" is still terrible. Would you say that's an accurate summary?


Get's more popcorn and awaits the "New Marmite" explaination


You see marmite is full of different groups. so when I say new type i mean me and my corp.

Me: http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/engagement_history.php

My corp: http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/engagement_history.php

These also don't show the numerous times we have forced PoH into retreat or to dock up and log off.

P.S I have nothing but respect for Zeus and his lads even after everything you see like them I love the hunt and hate hub campers.

Don't confuse kindness with weakness.

Beware the hand of Fybs.

Proud CEO of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Aleksi Bocharov
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#16 - 2015-01-23 18:25:50 UTC
So uh.

"We won the war; here is hard data to back this assertion."

Marmite: "lol spinning like a tornado!"

Uhhhhhh.......
Tora Bushido
The Marmite Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#17 - 2015-01-23 20:41:53 UTC
Neo Kathura wrote:
Yeah, C&P is generally full of epic tales of misadventure, because one liners are boring. This was an interesting read. Is there a Marmite side of the story in the works?
No need, this war had more then enough Marmites Spins Blink

DELETE THE WEAK, ADAPT OR DIE !

Meta Gaming Level VII, Psycho Warfare Level X, Smack Talk Level VII.

Marlin Spikes
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2015-01-25 10:29:50 UTC
Renegade Heart wrote:
And it is clearly an effective tactic, since the top merc groups that allow station camping get way more kills than those who avoid it. Granted, they might lose more too, but the risk reward is fair I think. Good station campers destroy way more than they lose.


My Big vs Small was really simply meant to be a suggestive innuendo, but you do bring up a valid point.

I agree with you. They do kill more, and they are effective.

For discussion, compare PVP to the fishing industry. There are many fishing techniques (nets, traps, poles, lines, yo-yos, etc). A fisherman can use any of these techniques, depending on the type of fish they are hoping to catch. Obviously some techniques are more effective than others. In fact, you will catch more if you use nets, than if you fish by hand, but you may catch more lucrative fish it you use a pole. Regardless of the technique used, every fisherman must consider their impact on the fish population.

What would happen if spawning areas are over-fished for extended periods? ...that's right. Loss in revenue!! Fishermen can't buy shiny nice ships if fish are too scared to come out of their hiding places.

If we all wardec'd 100s of corps/alliances and then camped the trade stations, we will all kill a lot - for a while. Our boards will be green. Our stats will be great! However, how will the war targets' game play change over time? Will they just dock up and wait until their wardec is over or drop corp? Will they adapt and use NPC alts during wars? Will they just quit Eve? Or will they hire P.O.H. or some other merc to clear the stations?

I recently read in a different thread how WTs are becoming harder and harder to find. I don't know why this may be the case, but it does make me wonder if we are over-fishing the trading hubs.

Thanks for the comment.

Bombers Rule!!!

Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
#19 - 2015-01-25 12:14:41 UTC
Bla... highsec
Solj RichPopolous
Doomheim
#20 - 2015-01-27 13:12:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Solj RichPopolous
Buhhdust Princess wrote:
Bla... highsec


Bla all secx.

Null is full of people who POS up or form a 30 man ishtar fleet for 4 guys, or wont even try follow you out of the system because they will lose their Nyx fighter support (lol Stain guys im looking at you).

WH full of people mashing D-scan every 2 sec ready to POS up. (My new fav playstyle is using Thera to stomp nullie bads.)

Low is full of just as many skittish gate campers, station campers as well.

High is full of station campers, neut logi alts, neut alts everywhere.


I suddenly see why everyone hates high sec. Sec status doesn't make a pilot any better than another at any given task just means he does different play styles. Regardless, remove local from the game should fix all this.