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The end of Hybrid buff
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The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
#41 - 2011-12-19 21:23:54 UTC
Kingwood wrote:
Talos is pretty much my favorite roaming ship now. Blasters are fine, stop whining.


Posting quality, improve it.

Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
Kingwood
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#42 - 2011-12-19 21:38:02 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Kingwood wrote:
Talos is pretty much my favorite roaming ship now. Blasters are fine, stop whining.


So you're running a 2 LSE Talos with 2 TEs. Looks like you're generally doing pretty well with it. Are you using it straight solo or are you running in a gang? Are you running with logi support?

-Liang


Both solo and small gang. No scouts or links when going solo, usually links but no logistics support if roaming in a small gang.

It's a really good ship and has pretty much replaced me flying Canes + Drakes.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#43 - 2011-12-19 21:57:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Roime
Liang Nuren wrote:
How many people in this thread have flown a blaster ship in a meaningful way since the boost? I'm just trying to get a feel for how much theorycraft there is vs how much actual experience.

-Liang


[edit: lolforums break these links, copypaste if you must see them, but they show a Brutix and Incursus topping small fleet killmails]

http://bluerep.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=11930563
http://bluerep.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=11930446
http://bluerep.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=11882158
http://bluerep.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=11929492

I really think blasters work very well indeed in their intended role at the moment. Best damage, best tracking, can switch ammo if needed, cap is a non-issue, speed deficiency is not apparent in real combat situations. That said, I didn't feel underpowered before Crucible, I fly Gallente boats in various ways, and love them all. I use rails+sentries in PvP. I even fly the Celestis in a damping role a lot. According to the forums, these are all useless.

Of course close-range boat is a poor counter to kiting, but I've been kited exactly once in my career (Crow killed my Incursus). Of course you commit to a fight in a brawler ship.

Every time I undock in a Thorax or Brutix I know there is a high chance of getting primaried... I hesitate for a split second, but then I remember that 1000 unheated DPS, and I think

**** yeah

The sissies can kite all they want, I'm playing for that **** yeah -feeling.

.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#44 - 2011-12-19 21:58:52 UTC
Kingwood wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Kingwood wrote:
Talos is pretty much my favorite roaming ship now. Blasters are fine, stop whining.


So you're running a 2 LSE Talos with 2 TEs. Looks like you're generally doing pretty well with it. Are you using it straight solo or are you running in a gang? Are you running with logi support?

-Liang


Both solo and small gang. No scouts or links when going solo, usually links but no logistics support if roaming in a small gang.

It's a really good ship and has pretty much replaced me flying Canes + Drakes.


Cool thx

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#45 - 2011-12-19 22:04:16 UTC
Roime wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
How many people in this thread have flown a blaster ship in a meaningful way since the boost? I'm just trying to get a feel for how much theorycraft there is vs how much actual experience.

-Liang


http://bluerep.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=11930563
http://bluerep.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=11930446
http://bluerep.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=11882158
http://bluerep.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=11929492

I really think blasters work very well indeed in their intended role at the moment. Best damage, best tracking, can switch ammo if needed, cap is a non-issue, speed deficiency is not apparent in real combat situations. That said, I didn't feel underpowered before Crucible, I fly Gallente boats in various ways, and love them all. I use rails+sentries in PvP. I even fly the Celestis in a damping role a lot. According to the forums, these are all useless.

Of course close-range boat is a poor counter to kiting, but I've been kited exactly once in my career (Crow killed my Incursus). Of course you commit to a fight in a brawler ship.

Every time I undock in a Thorax or Brutix I know there is a high chance of getting primaried... I hesitate for a split second, but then I remember that 1000 unheated DPS, and I think

**** yeah

The sissies can kite all they want, I'm playing for that **** yeah -feeling.


Very cool. I've been spending a lot of time with blaster ships too and I'm really digging them. Another thing you can use the Celestis for is a 400 DPS 144 sensor strength ****-falcon-machine. :)

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#46 - 2011-12-19 22:22:49 UTC

http://gallente.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=11930677

Sadly, I am loving the Talos for other reasons. Oops

We even jumped into these guys and burned off. Our FC said that one of the drakes would get caught but then we'd own them if they were blaster fit. Sadly, what he predicted came true.

Exemplifies all that is wrong with armor-tanked blaster boats. They even had logi support. Armor buffer tank when you are sitting at a warp-in, on station undock, etc... For everything else either hull tank with ewar in mids, or shield tank to keep up speed.

Otherwise I have been loving the new blasters. Massive dps, get in range a bit quicker, Guns are hitting when they used to miss.

Though I've been losing ENI's like crazy (Exeqeror Navy Issue) they have been a blast to fly. Fast, mobile dps.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#47 - 2011-12-19 22:31:04 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:

http://gallente.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=11930677

Sadly, I am loving the Talos for other reasons. Oops

We even jumped into these guys and burned off. Our FC said that one of the drakes would get caught but then we'd own them if they were blaster fit. Sadly, what he predicted came true.

Exemplifies all that is wrong with armor-tanked blaster boats. They even had logi support. Armor buffer tank when you are sitting at a warp-in, on station undock, etc... For everything else either hull tank with ewar in mids, or shield tank to keep up speed.

Otherwise I have been loving the new blasters. Massive dps, get in range a bit quicker, Guns are hitting when they used to miss.

Though I've been losing ENI's like crazy (Exeqeror Navy Issue) they have been a blast to fly. Fast, mobile dps.


I'm not sure that comments on armor tanked blaster boats as much as it comments on how paper thin Tier 3 BCs taking sentry fire can be utterly raped when hit by 10 BCs, 2 T3s, and an assortment of bombers. :-/

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#48 - 2011-12-19 22:48:59 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Liang Nuren wrote:
[quote=X Gallentius]
[
I'm not sure that comments on armor tanked blaster boats as much as it comments on how paper thin Tier 3 BCs taking sentry fire can be utterly raped when hit by 10 BCs, 2 T3s, and an assortment of bombers. :-/

-Liang


Perhap. Shield tanked Talos can have a much larger tank + same dps, and much more quickly as well. Armor tanking leads to less mobility than Tier 2 BCs, less EHP, etc....

They had no opportunity to catch more than one drake. Once out of tackle range the fight was effectively over.

meh. Been there, done that too many times in blaster hulls.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#49 - 2011-12-19 22:53:54 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
[quote=X Gallentius]
[
I'm not sure that comments on armor tanked blaster boats as much as it comments on how paper thin Tier 3 BCs taking sentry fire can be utterly raped when hit by 10 BCs, 2 T3s, and an assortment of bombers. :-/

-Liang


Perhap. Shield tanked Talos can have a much larger tank + same dps, and much more quickly as well. Armor tanking leads to less mobility than Tier 2 BCs, less EHP, etc....

They had no opportunity to catch more than one drake. Once out of tackle range the fight was effectively over.

meh. Been there, done that too many times in blaster hulls.


My point is that it wouldn't matter what BC they were flying - drakes, canes, bingers, brutixes, Oracles, Tornados, whatever. The fact that they're paper thin only made it worse and meant you could do it almost totally unscathed.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Alara IonStorm
#50 - 2011-12-19 22:59:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Roime wrote:

Of course close-range boat is a poor counter to kiting, but I've been kited exactly once in my career (Crow killed my Incursus). Of course you commit to a fight in a brawler ship.

Former Blue Rep here and will return because RvB PvP is just so much fun. Good to point out that RvB is way different then other forms of PvP.

In RvB you see very little Kiting. It is mostly Brawler fits there and because of that Blasters do exceptionally well. Every fleet has MWD Frigate and or Ceptor Tackle, a lot of it so kiting ships tend to be left behind and Tank / DPS come out more. Ships like Duel Web Canes shine where Shield Canes are rarer. You have to adjust your fits to meet this brawling atmosphere.

I was kited once in RvB by a Stabber in a 1v1, flying my favorite RvB Ship a Brick S Neutron Vexor. Had Hammer II's on her, kept playing stop and start games with an Overheated MWD and Tackle while withdrawing and Launching Drones. Eventually she laxed to 15km and I gunned it and got an overheated web on her then grabbed her 3 seconds later with a Scram. Toast in seconds.

http://bluerep.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=11508896

I would have been humped if it was a Nano Rupture for sure. But outside of 1v1's the other fleet tends to warp on you before any Kiter can kill you and with the Frigs they're ether quick quick on the warpout or dead.

http://bluerep.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=11474760

Here is one of my lovely Vexors. It runs Hammers but they were on the Field when she popped.

Blaster Boats especially Megathrons and Brutix work well in RvB. Tristan's and Merlin's are doing better to. Thorax you see a ton of bad fits on them, Shield ones tend to melt the second they come out of warp in bigger fights so you usually wanna keep them in smaller gangs. When I FC more then 5 people and see a Thorax easy kill is the first thought in my head always.

Blasters do alright in RvB. But the lack of a good Gallente Battlecruiser to match the Drake and Cane for real fleets and gangs as well as the lack of a Gallente fleet ship in General is an issue. You just don't see any Gallente Ships you can build a coordinated gang out of.

http://bluerep.eve-kill.net/?a=corp_detail&crp_id=64815&view=ships_weapons&m=12&y=2011

Even looking at the RvB stats, a place all about Brawlers, Blasters are no where near top dog. Drakacane make a strong showing though of course. The Rifter, Rupture, Thrasher and Cane team take the cake having the highest score in each of there respective classes.

Say what you will. I will always choose the Plate Vexor over a Plate Rupture though.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#51 - 2011-12-19 23:02:36 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Blasters do alright in RvB.


They're working fine in small gang low sec piracy too.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Alara IonStorm
#52 - 2011-12-19 23:05:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Hate these Forums sooo much. =/
Alara IonStorm
#53 - 2011-12-19 23:07:57 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:

They're working fine in small gang low sec piracy too.

-Liang

Which ones?

I see a lot of Megathrons for sure when I poke about Low, Large Neut, DPS and Incredible may not scale up but sure is scary when your staring down the barrel of one. Neut Domi as well. But what Blaster fits do you see hanging around?
Goose99
#54 - 2011-12-19 23:09:11 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:

They're working fine in small gang low sec piracy too.

-Liang

Which ones?

I see a lot of Megathrons for sure when I poke about Low, Large Neut, DPS and Incredible may not scale up but sure is scary when your staring down the barrel of one. Neut Domi as well. But what Blaster fits do you see hanging around?


And undocking games.Cool

Liang Nuren wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Blasters do alright in RvB.


They're working fine in small gang low sec piracy too.

-Liang


Yeah right, small blasters on frigs, where ships are fast, ranges are low all around, and stuff happens at twitch speeds. Summary of rvb right there. It stops working starting at cruiser level. Pit diemosts against vegas, and there's only one way it can pan out.Roll
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#55 - 2011-12-19 23:18:45 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
...


Stop making excuses for why you can't PVP with Blasters and just do it. After the requisite time when you learn to actually PVP I think you'll find they perform in their role quite adequately.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Goose99
#56 - 2011-12-19 23:28:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Goose99
Liang Nuren wrote:
Goose99 wrote:
...


Stop making excuses for why you can't PVP with Blasters and just do it. After the requisite time when you learn to actually PVP I think you'll find they perform in their role quite adequately.

-Liang


Diemost with 2 nanos = 2km/s (post "buff," that is). Vega with same 2 nanos = 3km/s. Diemost with 2 range mods and null = almost zero dps at 27-32km point range. Vega with same 2 range mods = 85% dps at point range.

You embarrass yourself.Oops

On a more serious note, you've got to be really out of touch to keep pretending gallante and hybrids work. Undock once in a while.Roll
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#57 - 2011-12-19 23:41:02 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Goose99 wrote:
...


Stop making excuses for why you can't PVP with Blasters and just do it. After the requisite time when you learn to actually PVP I think you'll find they perform in their role quite adequately.

-Liang


Diemost with 2 nanos = 2km/s (post "buff," that is). Vega with same 2 nanos = 3km/s. Diemost with 2 range mods and null = almost zero dps at 27-32km point range. Vega with same 2 range mods = 85% dps at point range.

You embarrass yourself.Oops

On a more serious note, you've got to be really out of touch to keep pretending gallante and hybrids work. Undock once in a while.Roll

Why are you commenting a low sec logi pilot?? Im pretty sure he knows pvp...rofl
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#58 - 2011-12-19 23:41:46 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Goose99 wrote:
...


Stop making excuses for why you can't PVP with Blasters and just do it. After the requisite time when you learn to actually PVP I think you'll find they perform in their role quite adequately.

-Liang


Diemost with 2 nanos = 2km/s (post "buff," that is). Vega with same 2 nanos = 3km/s. Diemost with 2 range mods and null = almost zero dps at 27-32km point range. Vega with same 2 range mods = 85% dps at point range.

You embarrass yourself.Oops

On a more serious note, you've got to be really out of touch to keep pretending gallante and hybrids work. Undock once in a while.Roll


Why do you feel that you have to be able to out-speed a Vagabond (specifically) to have a useful ship? The Abaddon is a pretty damn good ship and doesn't stand a chance at running down a Vaga. Also, how fast is that same Deimos with the MWD overheated as you would use to get into range?

Also, I am undocking... and I'm using blasters. (zomg).

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#59 - 2011-12-19 23:43:49 UTC
Naomi Knight wrote:

Why are you commenting a low sec logi pilot?? Im pretty sure he knows pvp...rofl


Heretics don't tend to make use of Logis... and they also don't roam a lot. That means I'm putting in a lot more hours in ships like Harpies and Moas than Basilisks right now. I guess the cool thing about it is that I can fly Harpies in Amamake - there's enough PVP concentrated in the one system that the 15 minute Gate Guns Will **** You timer doesn't put a serious crimp in my sub-BC PVP.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#60 - 2011-12-19 23:49:59 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Naomi Knight wrote:

Why are you commenting a low sec logi pilot?? Im pretty sure he knows pvp...rofl


Heretics don't tend to make use of Logis... and they also don't roam a lot. That means I'm putting in a lot more hours in ships like Harpies and Moas than Basilisks right now. I guess the cool thing about it is that I can fly Harpies in Amamake - there's enough PVP concentrated in the one system that the 15 minute Gate Guns Will **** You timer doesn't put a serious crimp in my sub-BC PVP.

-Liang

so you started to learn basic pvp , nice ^^
have fun with it