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OFC ppl dont care about throwing ac's on a thrasher lol its a 2 mll hull lol if u win great if u dont buy another 30 hulls for the same price as the destroyer

I didn't assume anything, but rather read your post carefully. You said a lot of things I not only agree with but that I already said in my post, and said nothing to conflict with them. So really the only thing we disagree on is whether or not Barrage should have its range decreased in relation to other autocannon ammo. Since you already agree that autocannon ammo needs more range options, I don't understand why you feel that Barrage should have even less of a range advantage than it does, considering it already has very little range advantage.

Audio of the correct pronunciation of Svipul. (Posted by CCP Scarpia)
https://soundcloud.com/p-tur-rn-rarinsson/svipul-minmatar-tactical-destroyer

So since I never managed to come up with an even halfway acceptable artie-jag fit (not even with 250's) you piqued my interest and I took the liberty to go through your killboards (in a respectful manner) and look for those fits you talked about.
So..um...2x tech 2 ACRs and no DCU plus an empty (utility) highslot ?
Isn't that a bit ridiculous for a ship that is supposed to use those weapons, since it is bonused for them?

Don't get me wrong, I think you were ballsy as hell to fly in those fits and make them work, yet it points to what is fundamentally wrong with Minmatar and projectiles. Minmatar are supposed to be versatile- and they fully lose this versatility if you are forced to gimp these ships into oblivion just to fit half of the weapons (artie) that they are supposed to use.
I really would love to use small artie on frigs, I believe it would be quite fun, but the artie fitting requirements would need to be reduced drastically (about -20% PG & CPU) to make it viable.

The Jaguar would need it's utility slot changed to a turret and about 10 more PG to be a viable arty platform. Some extra capacitor and armor would be on my wish list as well.

I've a hunch that niche will be filled extremely well by the Caldari tactical destroyer. I anticipate it having an even longer lock range in sharpshooter mode than the Cormorant. This combined with small rails' exceedingly long firing range and the T3's greater number of total mid/low slots and powergrid will allow the beast to pluck at targets very near to the limits of sniper Ferox range. This will additionally act as a counter to dampening as it will take a lot to bring the ship's targeting range below Javelin range, which will still be high enough to track targets pretty easily and find a good kiting range. Besides, makes sense it would be Caldari (Gallente's sworn enemies) to counter it, rather than Minmatar, Gallente's allies.

Not disputing the need for reduction in arty powergrid. But to make arty "work" in any way shape or form currently, you need multiple grid mods. The one saving grace of the jag is you have a good resist profile without any resist mods (shield anyway). However, i will say that the jag is pretty **** to fit with artillery, and lots of sacrifices have to be made to make a "passable" fit. That jag fit was more of an experiment to see if a viable kite 280 jag could be made. Thats the best i could come up, not enough CPU to fit a DCU, thats why it went double repped. Had enough dps tank for 5 warriors, and that was about it. Only did 150dps (lol). Had a few fun fights in it, but otherwise it was too slow, the reload too long, and a barely passable tank.

The best jag fit for me is something like this:

[Jaguar, Scram Kite]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Navy Micro Auxiliary Power Core

Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP S
[empty high slot]

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Projectile Burst Aerator II

That killed quite a bit when i first started flying it, before garmur's and worms became all the rage. That does about 170dps, with 1k alpha's (paper, average 450ish), goes 2944m/s and has about 6.6k EHP. However, to get those stats, you need 2 PG mods (one faction), and a 1% implant (unless you have projectile rigging to 5, and shield skills to 5). All that for alpha. Seems bit excessive for what you get.

You also need to be good at flying, and i don't mean clicking approach/orbit. That jag needs to be manually flown to keep transversal decent, as well as to keep from getting sling shotted with them on top of you. You slowly wittle them down from afar, and then try to skirt OH scram/web range.

It means, the jag takes a lot of skill to fly halfway decently with the poor tank you normally have, and that tank is made worse by arty's horrible fitting. I'm worried the Svipul will be put in a similar spot with artillery if they don't consider PG reductions on arty.



I agree for the most part. Arty is fun, but you have to go into it knowing your weakness (tank/rof). Embrace the alpha, and fit around it. You can't skimp on the dps mods, or you won't have the alpha to kill anything quickly. The other thing about flying minmatar, get used to having to use 1-3% PG implants to make the better fits work. Idk if this is for racial flavor, or some remnant of the past (likely), but it makes fits unnecessarily expensive, and sub-optimal in most cases.

There is 1 ship that can fit artillery/tank/prop without PG mods, and its not a minmatar ship (gnosis).

To explore strange new worlds, seek out new life and new civilizations. To boldly go where no man has gone before.

Really I thought the tactical destroyers were just meant to blow **** up!

My money is on hybrids for the Caldari as the Flycatcher and Corax already do missiles. I'll also go out on a limb and predict 7-5-3 for Caldari and 7-3-5 for Gallente.