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You should scram kite with jag. Its pretty potent. Or thrasher. 1k alpha, decent mobility. Hold at scram range and blap away. Arty can be brutal in scram range, as long as you have a tracking bonus and web(s).

they are eerily like T3 cruisers

+1 on the svipul and the projectile changes.

but really, "...while reducing the reliance on the excellent Barrage T2 ammo type."

Do you even eve? Barrage is almost never the correct ammo choice.

Looking forward to the Svipul!


I feel that the autocannon ammo rebalance is heading in the wrong direction and ignoring the heart of the problem. The true imbalance lies in the tech 1 ammo, as tech 1 projectile ammo does not balance alongside other turrets the way tech 2 ammo does. This causes tech 2 ammo to compare with tech 1 faction navy ammo very differently in some cases than in others.

Here are the major changes that happen when you switch from tech 1 medium range ammo to:
Tech 1 short range ammo:
Pulse Lasers: high damage at heavy cost to range
Blasters: high damage at moderate cost to range
Autocannons: high damage at almost no cost to range - but instead they sacrifice tracking

Tech 1 long range ammo:
Pulse Lasers: much longer range at heavy cost to damage
Blasters: significantly longer range at heavy cost to damage
Autocannons: insignificantly longer range at heavy cost to damage, also lower tracking (useless ammo for autocannons)


Now the major changes that happen when you switch from:
Navy short range to Tech 2 short range ammo:
Pulse Lasers: higher damage at same range, cost is instead to tracking and capacitor cost
Blasters: higher damage at a bit less range, also loses tracking and costs more capacitor
Autocannons: higher damage at a bit less range, also loses tracking

**this is where you see the imbalance**
Navy long range to Tech 2 long range ammo:
Pulse Lasers: less tracking and slightly less range at tremendous gain to damage
Blasters: less tracking and slightly more range with tremendous gain to damage
Autocannons: less tracking and significantly more range with tremendous gain to damage

---

When you look at it this way, you see a range imbalance in the tech 2 ammo. But I submit to you that the range imbalance exists in tech 1 and manifests in tech 2 when you switch from tech 1 to tech 2. This results in Barrage being a staple of autocannon ammo because it is the only viable long range option for autocannons. Choosing longer range variants within tech 1 and faction ammo just doesn't affect the range much.


My solution? Give tech 1 long range projectile ammo a falloff bonus, and cut its optimal bonus a bit to keep artillery at the same range as before. Now people actually put Proton in an autocannon because it actually boosts range over heavier-hitting and faster-tracking Depleted Uranium.

That's based on the assumption that T1 short range ammo is already balanced. If it is, then t1 medium range isn't.

T2 anything should always be a great boost, but rookie players should never be marginalized. Not everyone has had time to train T2 weapons.

Furthermore, my original point still stands even when you compare tech 1 short range to tech 2 long range:

Multifrequency to Scorch: damage goes down, range goes WAY up
Antimatter to Null: damage goes down, range goes up a lot
Fusion to Barrage: damage goes down, range goes up a bit

The difference is clear, autocannon range doesn't change much with ammo, so just pick the highest damage ammo. Barrage is useful because it's the only ammo that actually does bring the range up and sometimes that range is important for scoring hits at all. But this change is further diminishing its already tiny advantage, further boosting the comparative power of other tech 2 long range ammos and further marginalizing an already marginal ammo. All this change does is remove ammo options from autocannons in favor of just picking the one with the most damage.

With a bib for a frill? I want one!

I thought the draw to these ships was their versatility and the situation you describe propulsion would be a bit more beneficial I think.

Clearly you have never flown Minmatar. Barrage is the only ammo you ever load in a Vagabond because you need that falloff to stay out of scram/web range. If you are kiting with ACs you need barrage.

What gal/amarr ships are fitting arty? The last ship i heard that did that were the old hellcats (abaddon's with 1400's), but that was a few years ago.

Hybrids and lasers are actually in a good spot atm. Hybrids more than lasers. Scorch is still very powerful, and small beams were just buffed. Lasers could prob use some more tweaking, but it surely isn't making people put arty on their ships. In fact, it probably has less to do with the weapon system, than the hull bonus on the ship. Example would be the punisher, i think people put w/e gun fits.