These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

rattlesnake or raven for PVE
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Phig Neutron
Starbreaker and Sons
#1 - 2015-01-21 18:46:15 UTC
Hi all, last time I was doing L4 missions (it was a while ago) I was using a Raven. Somewhere along the way I acquired a Rattlesnake and now I've got the skills to pilot it. Is it a good choice for missions, better than the Raven? I have great skills in shields, missiles, and OK skills in drones, and have both battleship skills to IV. I'll probably be doing Gallente missions, so likely shooting a lot of Serpentis rats.

Rattlesnake and Raven fits for comparison would be welcome.
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#2 - 2015-01-21 18:51:38 UTC
Tank + DPS Mods + Launchers + Drones

Figure it out yourself you bum.

Not today spaghetti.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2015-01-21 18:52:56 UTC
snake is great if you have good drone skills (sentries, heavies etc). Also helps a lot vs serpentis since drones can't get damped

Art of Explosions
Chris Winter
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#4 - 2015-01-22 01:42:47 UTC
Flying a Rattlesnake is like flying a Raven AND a Dominix at the same time. Major upgrade from the Raven if you have the drone skills for it.
KC Kamikaze
Blue-Fire
#5 - 2015-01-22 17:25:46 UTC
Pirate ship effectiveness varies greatly with skills. **** skills you would be better off with the raven but if you have good t2 tank/missile/drone skills the rattlesnake will stomp all over the raven.

For comparison I have alts training into gilas (oh noes an ISBoxer!). Those low sp alts get around 630dps and 34k ehp tank while I at near max relevant skills get 849dps and 55k ehp. Battleship scale will be even more dramatic I would expect.
Charlie Jacobson
#6 - 2015-01-22 18:36:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Charlie Jacobson
Rattlesnake is far stronger, even at low skills. It's also more expensive, though. If you fit it with ballistic controls+drone damage amps in the lows and use the mids for a buffer tank+MJD you've got an overtanked baseline fitting that you can adjust as you get comfortable with flying the ship. I know a lot of people like active shield tanks on their mission ships, but with ganking being very popular these days I prefer a big buffer. I might even swap one ballistic control system for a damage control ii just in case.


[Rattlesnake, overtanked]

Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Micro Jump Drive

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Core Defense Field Purger II
Large Core Defense Field Purger II
Large Core Defense Field Purger II


Curator II x2
Garde II x2
Hobgoblin II x5

Use mission specific hardeners, missiles and drones.

If you can't use tech2 cruise missiles yet, just use arbalest and cheap tech1 ammo. If you can't use tech 2 sentries yet, faction sentries are an okay alternative. For the rest of the modules I would really recommend being able to use the tech2 versions. The training time is not that long.

This is far more tank than you need for most missions. You can get better damage application by swapping out an extender or two with target painters and/or omnidirectional tracking links.

You might also find that if you use the MJD at the wrong angle you end up outside your targeting and drone control range, so bear that in mind. You can swap some of your tank for a sensor booster if you want to use that to your advantage and outrange the rats with missiles.

One last thing. You can always use your MJD to escape rats if they're tackling you. Rats only have disrutpors, and therefor cannot prevent you from using MJD or MWD.

I support James 315 and the New Order of Highsec
KC Kamikaze
Blue-Fire
#7 - 2015-01-22 19:14:35 UTC
I should clarify the reason I think at low skills the raven is better and it's not because the ship is better at low skills:

With crap skills you will still have crap dps and tank ... at some point a skiff is going to warp into your mission pocket and aggress your MTU and then your drones are gonna go after him and bam limited engagement timer. Now he chews away your defenses while tanking the damage you can put out.... you're dead. Better to be dead in a mission fit raven than dead in an expensive ass rattlesnake.

When you get into L4 mission systems this will happen. Save yourself some isk as the payout on l4 missions sucks horribly anyway.
Charlie Jacobson
#8 - 2015-01-22 19:23:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Charlie Jacobson
KC Kamikaze wrote:
I should clarify the reason I think at low skills the raven is better and it's not because the ship is better at low skills:

With crap skills you will still have crap dps and tank ... at some point a skiff is going to warp into your mission pocket and aggress your MTU and then your drones are gonna go after him and bam limited engagement timer. Now he chews away your defenses while tanking the damage you can put out.... you're dead. Better to be dead in a mission fit raven than dead in an expensive ass rattlesnake.

When you get into L4 mission systems this will happen. Save yourself some isk as the payout on l4 missions sucks horribly anyway.


I don't think drones can actually auto-aggress someone you don't already have a limited engagement with. Even when getting suicide ganked, your drones will never shoot back unless you tell them to. If the scenario you're describing is real, then there must be some sort of bug or issue with MTUs.

EDIT: Found some old patch notes
Drones that are set to aggressive will no longer perform automatic actions against a target if those actions would trigger a new Limited Engagement, unless explicitly instructed to engage that target.

Source: http://community.eveonline.com/news/patch-notes/patch-notes-for-rubicon-1.1?_ga=1.257187915.1346813452.1417983799

I support James 315 and the New Order of Highsec
Bullet Therapist
FT Cold Corporation
#9 - 2015-01-23 02:41:52 UTC
Phig Neutron wrote:
Hi all, last time I was doing L4 missions (it was a while ago) I was using a Raven. Somewhere along the way I acquired a Rattlesnake and now I've got the skills to pilot it. Is it a good choice for missions, better than the Raven? I have great skills in shields, missiles, and OK skills in drones, and have both battleship skills to IV. I'll probably be doing Gallente missions, so likely shooting a lot of Serpentis rats.

Rattlesnake and Raven fits for comparison would be welcome.


The snake is hands down the best l4 ship out there. I don't do a lot of l4s or pve in general, but once and a while I just want to grind them, so I try different ships from time to time. I've got the skills and isk to fly anything I'd like; the snake stands head and shoulders above the rest. Most NPCs have either therm on kinetic as their primary or secondary resist hole, and you virtually never lose drones, don't really have to refit and have the most important factor for missions in abundance- dps, of which it almost does almost twice as much as the raven. Absolutely superior.

Phig Neutron
Starbreaker and Sons
#10 - 2015-01-23 06:37:44 UTC
What's the use of the MJD? Especially with a missile ship I can't see the need to be skipping around the deadspace to get closer or farther away from rats.
Chris Winter
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#11 - 2015-01-23 08:13:13 UTC
Phig Neutron wrote:
What's the use of the MJD? Especially with a missile ship I can't see the need to be skipping around the deadspace to get closer or farther away from rats.

A) Two hops gets you any distance from 5-200km while being stationary most of the time. This allows you to use sentry drones, which are the best drones. Can't use sentries when you have to move 30km to the gate to the next pocket the old fashioned way.
B) Being 100km away is all the tank you need in a lot of cases. The majority of NPCs can't hit that far. Meanwhile, as long as you've fit to have proper drone control and lock ranges, you're still doing ~1400dps at 100km away.
C) Being 100km away causes rats to fly straight at you, reducing their transversal velocity and allowing you to blap frigs with sentry drones.
D) NPCs use warp disruptors, not scrams, so if you need to GTFO you align out, MJD and warp off. This allows you to do a mission like that drone hive one without having to kill all the scramming frigs.
Phig Neutron
Starbreaker and Sons
#12 - 2015-01-23 17:23:51 UTC
Sounds like a plan. I'll give it a whirl.
KC Kamikaze
Blue-Fire
#13 - 2015-01-23 18:26:15 UTC
Charlie Jacobson wrote:
KC Kamikaze wrote:
I should clarify the reason I think at low skills the raven is better and it's not because the ship is better at low skills:

With crap skills you will still have crap dps and tank ... at some point a skiff is going to warp into your mission pocket and aggress your MTU and then your drones are gonna go after him and bam limited engagement timer. Now he chews away your defenses while tanking the damage you can put out.... you're dead. Better to be dead in a mission fit raven than dead in an expensive ass rattlesnake.

When you get into L4 mission systems this will happen. Save yourself some isk as the payout on l4 missions sucks horribly anyway.


I don't think drones can actually auto-aggress someone you don't already have a limited engagement with. Even when getting suicide ganked, your drones will never shoot back unless you tell them to. If the scenario you're describing is real, then there must be some sort of bug or issue with MTUs.

EDIT: Found some old patch notes
Drones that are set to aggressive will no longer perform automatic actions against a target if those actions would trigger a new Limited Engagement, unless explicitly instructed to engage that target.

Source: http://community.eveonline.com/news/patch-notes/patch-notes-for-rubicon-1.1?_ga=1.257187915.1346813452.1417983799



Gah now i'm gonna have to go test this next time i get out to kspace. Thanks for the info!
EndersChild
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#14 - 2015-01-24 11:02:13 UTC
Bullet Therapist wrote:
The snake is hands down the best l4 ship out there. I don't do a lot of l4s or pve in general, but once and a while I just want to grind them, so I try different ships from time to time. I've got the skills and isk to fly anything I'd like; the snake stands head and shoulders above the rest. Most NPCs have either therm on kinetic as their primary or secondary resist hole, and you virtually never lose drones, don't really have to refit and have the most important factor for missions in abundance- dps, of which it almost does almost twice as much as the raven. Absolutely superior.


I have to disagree. The RS is the best one-stop-shop ship yes, and can be fit with max low slot DPS mods and omni tanked so you don't have to mess with fit between missions, but I would suggest you have 3 ships in your hangar for optimising

For TH/KI, then the RS wins the DPS game against the Kronos and Vargur, instant DPS application the advantage with the later options as missile flight time does suck

EX is the lowest DPS sentry option on the RS, so the Golem would be the better option here, but range on Golem is a pain and dicking with the MJD sometimes the only option, or just put up with less DPS and hassle RS

EM is Paladin. Less DPS than RS, but instantly applied and instant optimal crystal change at a good range spread