Player Features and Ideas Discussion

So....by the numbers

1. Though you dont know the when, you know the where and that in itself is enough. I will leave you to figure out how you kill someone on the undock or from a POS. You are a smart enough player to know how to accomplish this. The argument that cloaking = hiding in POS/Station is simply invalid. In both cases you know here the player is, what they are in for the most part. Untrue with a cloaked ship. Wont even touch the idea of the cost of stations and POS vs the cost of a cloaked ship.

2. The idea that an "AFK cloak" is not hostile unless they are visible is also invalid and his been shown several times already. The threat of a hot drop is in itself a hostile act, as well as intel that can be gained from simply watching a station undock. These are just two examples of hostile actions coming from a cloaked target and they are gained by the cloaked pilot with minimal risk.

3. As for this idea. Where exactly in the game of EVE has it ever been stated that hunting a PVE ship should be easy. I dont advocate complete safety cause I think it makes the game boring, but having lived in Null 90% of my EVE career when a threat comes close, miners and ratters will dock up. With my corp and alliance we often will form up to combat the invaded threat, which often time results in the invalid force leaving, especially if we bring equal numbers. Your push for cloak to stay the same is from the point of view of gaining easy kills and not wanting to risk your ship to actual combat ships. Maybe not you specifically but that is how the argument here is panning out. If you are really dedicated to PVP you would just go to low sec and spend about 10 minutes at a gate and get all you need.

Let me explain to you why you see local as being broken. You can blame this on N3, Goons, Test and any other major alliance that makes their money off of renting. They claim to own space. They rent it to industrials. This in itself creates a massive network that an alliance can call their space. Now from a simply logical point of view, why exactly do you feel that a PVP ship should be able to penetrate an alliances space without being detected so they can prey on miners or ratters. If those players are several jumps into alliance space, I personally dont see any way you should be able to just fly in and attack them without a lot of work. Now you claim that AFK cloaking is meant to combat this exact mentality, however I personally see it as an abuse of a tool CCP created.

I personally feel that what you advocate in keeping cloak as it is goes against the ideas of CCP is attempting to create. What benefit does it create to be able to sit in a system for a month, waiting for that perfect kill. All you are doing is basically griefing.

Local itself isnt broken. If you enter a system owned by a single corp and they are all mining. You have a very high chance of tackling a mining barge before they can dock, even with them seeing you. The combat ship has the speed to do that. However this is not the same if you fly 10 jumps into alliance territory and expect their intel networks to not have seen you.

Local only works in one system. The intel channels are what spreads the news. You shouldnt be fighting to fix local but instead to limit the intel channels.

The type of AFK cloaking that people are complaining about is the type that is used as a griefing tool. No one wants to destroy bombers, or cov ops or anything like that, though what you are seeking is justification to be able to grief PVE ships deep in alliance territory.

This is why I feel there is a flaw in cloak. I think it can be abused and this is my justification on why I feel that way and why I would like to see them changed in this single regard.

There is no limitation (to the effect of cloaking) , it can still operate as before.

* However I have heard Circadian Seekers (new sleeper drones) can penetrate the cloaking effect and still find you, so no idea what CCP will give us in the future to penetrate (any) cloaking

There will be a time limitation of cloaking when it needs the use of fuel and a fixed size fuel bay per ship.
(disclaimer: I am not a junior game designer so this is just my pov)



Could you elaborate this please, I do not understand

So I have to stop playing EVE if something enters local I cannot deal with while flying a cloaky mega and I cannot use scouts to keep an eye on the on grid activities of a defense fleet that has a lot of drag bubbles around it.




You can not use any mod of any kind while cloaked.

A station cannot change hands or lock people out. And AFK player in a station is exactly the same as an AFK cloaker.

In what world do you live in where a station can not change hands or deny access. It happens all the time in Null

...........

Indeed?
So, Let's say I am in a friendly sov system.
I am bookmarked to a POS safe spot.
I fly aligned to that spot.
I see a name that is not friendly get added to the pilot's list.
I warp.

At what point can the hostile interrupt this chain of events?
What if I took the time, and had anchored a bubble on the incoming gate too?


Show me a PvE ship that is vulnerable to becoming a kill mail, while docked in a station.
It can't be bubbled, hot dropped, or otherwise interacted with.
It can still see who is present in the system.
It can play with the market, fit new ships, or undock in something PvP fit. This includes nullified ships which can zip past that potential bubble, cloak up on it's own, and also zip about the system at that point.

But sure, that ship which MIGHT be paying attention, had to be fast and agile enough to slip past our defending gate camps, and is willing to spike hundreds of millions of ISK bridging ships over to catch me... IT has the advantage?

My lil procurer probably cost less than it did. And my friends would be delighted to punch the dropper's return ticket for them.

I am betting my ISK lost breakdown is NOTHING compared to theirs....

I am not sure if you are willfully being ignorant of what I and others are saying or just not understanding. My statements, killboards and suggestions have been the complete opposite of what you just stated.

I made one clear statement. AFK cloak camping a system for a prolonged time seems to be a flaw in the cloak and I would prefer to see it changed. I have offered several reasons on why its a flaw, so have may others. Several people have made very valid points on why cloak is flawed.

You accuse me of ignorance, but you fail to demonstrate grounds for this accusation beyond unfounded claims.

The case has been argued that the cloak is the counter for local. One key detail is the lack of resolution for pilots where both sides perform without error.
This is not an opinion. The very existence of this thread is not centered around kill mails being too easy for cloaked ships, but around the fact that PvE ships are able to avoid them, and in so doing feel oppressed by their continued presence.
They are calling it denial of play, they refer to it as griefing, they are frustrated.

They do NOT expect to fight back against the cloaked ships, in these complaints, with the PvE ships.

That is a staggering disparity in perspective. That would be one of the keystones of why the two sides in this debate do not agree.

The ones seeking to limit cloaks, do NOT feel that the PvE ships should ever need to encounter direct PvP combat.
They should not need to fit for this...
they should not need to bring friends...
they expect to be able to get safe, and have the cloaked ship accept it's failure to catch them, following which the cloaked ship should simply LEAVE.
They seem to want no part of this mind game, where they must guess whether it is safe to come out, or simply assume the cloaked ship is always active.

The concept that the cloaked ship has no chance of catching them, unless they make a significant error first, is expected as the normal state of affairs.
Certainly a convenient status quo, by many standards, but who are they to question that detail?

No baltec, stop this nonsense. A person sitting in a station does not have the available degree of intelligence or the opportunity for attack that a cloaked player has. This is a lie and an attempt to derail the conversation. Stop it.