These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Is the new "bullet time" / time diliation feature going to completely KILL EvE?

First post
Author
Alexeph Stoekai
Stoekai Corp
#141 - 2011-09-13 14:30:44 UTC
Hmmm... what would happen in a TiDi'd system if there is also a DUST battle raging on the surface of one (or more) planets, with EVE pilots trying to influence the ground fight?
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#142 - 2011-09-13 14:34:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Tallian Saotome
Alexeph Stoekai wrote:
Hmmm... what would happen in a TiDi'd system if there is also a DUST battle raging on the surface of one (or more) planets, with EVE pilots trying to influence the ground fight?

Apparently that is something they are working on conceptually with the DUST devs, I think Veritas said somewhere else that they thought they had it worked out.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.

Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#143 - 2011-09-13 14:35:07 UTC
Alexeph Stoekai wrote:
Hmmm... what would happen in a TiDi'd system if there is also a DUST battle raging on the surface of one (or more) planets, with EVE pilots trying to influence the ground fight?

Veritas answered that there is a fix inplace about 20 posts up Cool could not get in to specifics.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

CCP Veritas
C C P
C C P Alliance
#144 - 2011-09-13 14:35:38 UTC
Miilla wrote:
Can time dilation be abused? What if large fleets jump in and out or log on and off, what if the large fleet does lots of actions?

Is the dilation localised to the grid? or System wide?


It can be abused in the same way that the current degradation scheme can be abused, sure.

Dilation, at least in the first implementation, is a node-level construct. Any solar systems being run by the overloaded node will be dilated. This, while not ideal, is no worse than today - when a node becomes overloaded, all systems running on it suffer.

CCP Veritas - Technical Director - EVE Online

Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#145 - 2011-09-13 14:35:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Salpun
yay my first double post

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#146 - 2011-09-13 14:44:07 UTC
CCP Veritas wrote:
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
Stuff about a delay on jump-in


This is commonly brought up, but inducing a delay on jump in so the "times line up" is not something we're doing. It does make reinforcing mid-fight more powerful than it would be if the fight were lagless, but compared to today's situation it's no worse.

If we were to do such a delay, it'd create a minor nightmare in the details. Are ships stuck in the delay for the duration? Are they in some kind of "limbo" invulnerable state the entire time? What if their eventual jump in time would be after downtime? It gets pretty bonkers.

I totally understand that it feels weird to have differences in time advancement not accounted for in some way, but the oddness of that is less odd than actually accounting for it.


Yep... I can see plenty of stuff what you would need to track to implement such feature.

My original vision about the "delay" was simple pop up notification (similiar you get before going to lowsec by default) telling that there is time dialation in the area, the que is 3 minutes, the box would remain there while time is counting down and there would be some kind of "leave que"-button to cancel the action if preferred to do so.

Anyways it was good to know that this had been on the table before already. Thanks for the reply :)

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest

Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#147 - 2011-09-13 14:58:22 UTC
So is the TiDi test on Sisi this week we or do we get more CQ/ Carbon OI/ team BFF stuff first

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

CCP Veritas
C C P
C C P Alliance
#148 - 2011-09-13 15:05:14 UTC
Salpun wrote:
So is the TiDi test on Sisi this week we or do we get more CQ/ Carbon OI/ team BFF stuff first


There is no mass test this week. Next week's a maybe for TiDi.

CCP Veritas - Technical Director - EVE Online

Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
#149 - 2011-09-13 15:09:44 UTC
CCP Veritas wrote:
Miilla wrote:
Can time dilation be abused? What if large fleets jump in and out or log on and off, what if the large fleet does lots of actions?

Is the dilation localised to the grid? or System wide?


It can be abused in the same way that the current degradation scheme can be abused, sure.

Dilation, at least in the first implementation, is a node-level construct. Any solar systems being run by the overloaded node will be dilated. This, while not ideal, is no worse than today - when a node becomes overloaded, all systems running on it suffer.


And what happened to this "dynamic node balancing" scheme that was to be added?

What is the density of systems per blade?

CCP Veritas
C C P
C C P Alliance
#150 - 2011-09-13 15:20:26 UTC
Miilla wrote:
And what happened to this "dynamic node balancing" scheme that was to be added?


What, specifically, are you referring to? I can think of a few things that might fit that description depending on interpretation.

Miilla wrote:
What is the density of systems per blade?


Anywhere from 1 to about 500 systems per node, depending on a great many things. Your garden variety non-reinforced 0.0 node runs around 50-75 systems these days. There are presently 4 nodes per blade, though thinking per-blade is not very useful currently as each node is quite independent and the blades are apportioned to be able to run all 4 nodes at very near full capacity simultaneously.

CCP Veritas - Technical Director - EVE Online

Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
#151 - 2011-09-13 15:23:39 UTC
Well it was a while back that dynamic node balancing was the ability to "hot" shift systems across nodes.

CCP Veritas
C C P
C C P Alliance
#152 - 2011-09-13 15:35:19 UTC
Miilla wrote:
Well it was a while back that dynamic node balancing was the ability to "hot" shift systems across nodes.


We call that "non-disruptive live remapping." It's something we absolutely want, but is still a ways away. There is an effort currently to bring disruptive live remapping - the ability to move a system between nodes after disconnecting everyone - up to par. Once that's done, we'll be prioritizing the work of making it non-disruptive against everything else we could be up to.

Time Dilation does help with that effort though - it provides a mechanism which we can use to pause the simulation of a system while it's moved, so we have some progress on that front without even trying Bear

CCP Veritas - Technical Director - EVE Online

Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
#153 - 2011-09-13 15:41:01 UTC
CCP Veritas wrote:
Miilla wrote:
Well it was a while back that dynamic node balancing was the ability to "hot" shift systems across nodes.


We call that "non-disruptive live remapping." It's something we absolutely want, but is still a ways away. There is an effort currently to bring disruptive live remapping - the ability to move a system between nodes after disconnecting everyone - up to par. Once that's done, we'll be prioritizing the work of making it non-disruptive against everything else we could be up to.

Time Dilation does help with that effort though - it provides a mechanism which we can use to pause the simulation of a system while it's moved, so we have some progress on that front without even trying Bear




Frankly , the WINTER patch is CCP's last chance to stop the mass exodus.

You are running out of time.

Crasniya
The Aussienauts
#154 - 2011-09-13 16:06:07 UTC
Are "nodes" VMs running on the blades? Is there a software limitation which prevents you from moving VMs off a blade and giving that one node more of the blade's power, allowing it to handle a single overloaded node better?

Could one 'disruptively' move systems off an overloaded node that are currently devoid of players, so the interruption isn't noticed by anyone in-game? Without players in them, would moving about empty systems even help?

Soraya Xel - Council of Planetary Management 1 - soraya@biomassed.net

CCP Veritas
C C P
C C P Alliance
#155 - 2011-09-13 16:38:45 UTC
Crasniya wrote:
Are "nodes" VMs running on the blades? Is there a software limitation which prevents you from moving VMs off a blade and giving that one node more of the blade's power, allowing it to handle a single overloaded node better?


They are not VMs - they're separate invocations of the server process. We are investigating ways in which we can use modern virtualization to solve the non-disruptive remap problem, but they're just investigations at this point as the problem is not trivial.

Crasniya wrote:
Could one 'disruptively' move systems off an overloaded node that are currently devoid of players, so the interruption isn't noticed by anyone in-game? Without players in them, would moving about empty systems even help?


That's something we do occasionally and likely will do more once destructive remapping is a more reliable thing. Moving off empty systems doesn't really help anything at that moment, but when someone subsequently jumps into that previously-empty system, I'm sure they're happier having it been moved Blink

CCP Veritas - Technical Director - EVE Online

Crasniya
The Aussienauts
#156 - 2011-09-13 18:13:32 UTC
Thanks for your answers. :) I'm sure EVE provides some... unique software requirements and limitations to keep it running smoothly, but I know with VMs we can move them between blades with effectively no interruption in service.

Keep up the good work. :D

Soraya Xel - Council of Planetary Management 1 - soraya@biomassed.net

xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#157 - 2011-09-15 20:38:50 UTC
Crasniya wrote:
Thanks for your answers. :) I'm sure EVE provides some... unique software requirements and limitations to keep it running smoothly, but I know with VMs we can move them between blades with effectively no interruption in service.

Keep up the good work. :D



agreed
Josie Starshine
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#158 - 2011-09-15 21:15:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Josie Starshine
Yes keep up the good work CCP. Some of us truly appreciate it.
Sigras
Conglomo
#159 - 2011-09-15 23:03:02 UTC
Miilla wrote:
Well it was a while back that dynamic node balancing was the ability to "hot" shift systems across nodes.


Even if they implemented this, they've already said that the smallest chunk they can break eve down into is a one system chunk, so you'd just end up with one system on a node. This is already what happens when they reinforce a node.

What TiDi does is fix what happens in that system after that node which is only running one solar system gets overloaded.

Please make an effort to understand a system before you begin to criticize it.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#160 - 2011-09-15 23:19:10 UTC
Sigras wrote:
Miilla wrote:
Well it was a while back that dynamic node balancing was the ability to "hot" shift systems across nodes.


Even if they implemented this, they've already said that the smallest chunk they can break eve down into is a one system chunk, so you'd just end up with one system on a node. This is already what happens when they reinforce a node.

What TiDi does is fix what happens in that system after that node which is only running one solar system gets overloaded.

Please make an effort to understand a system before you begin to criticize it.


I think there is more to it than that.

If a node running multiple solar systems gets overloaded by a big fight in one system it will go into TiDi, taking all the solar systems running on that node with it. TiDi is not limited to reinforced nodes. If at that point CCP could do dynamic load balancing they could move the big fight over to a reinforced node right in the middle of the fight.

All the people in the other solar systems are now happy because they are not in TiDi while they are just doing normal stuff.

All the people in the big fight are happier because the got a reinforced node all to themselves.

Now, if a fleet fight form was submitted and the solar system was already on a reinforced node, dynamic load balancing would not help. So it only helps for unplanned fights.


Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction