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Recent Events and a Message

Author
Conventia Underking
Underking Family
Khimi Harar
#21 - 2011-12-19 06:09:50 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Well, like I said in the other thread, I've got a lot of respect for you because of this choice you've made. I'll have even more if you can make it stick.


Exactly how long would sticking require?

For God; Salvation is Imperative, but not at the cost of our Humanity!

The Vitoc Problem - Conventia Underking

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2011-12-19 06:31:28 UTC
Conventia Underking wrote:
Exactly how long would sticking require?


I'll be totally honest - I'm not really sure. It might take six months, or a year, or more, or less, but remember that my trust isn't really what you need to worry about - I'm not a part of the TLF. I mean, if you desire my trust, that's a different matter, but while of course I consider my opinion important, I'm realistic enough to freely admit there are way more important opinions in this particular matter. You've convinced them to trust you enough to let you into their corporation - for now, that's enough.

I've seen turncoats before - and, with the most respect possible, that is what you are, even if I think in this case you made the right choice. Most people simply don't have the capacity to turn their backs on their homelands. I've felt the temptation to abandon the Federation several times, but I've never been able to do it, and I don't think I ever will. In abandoning the Amarr Empire, whether or not you've abandoned God or other beliefs (such as the divinity of the Empress, etc.), you've abandoned a part of yourself, no matter how unpleasant and misguided that part might have been. Now, as far as I can tell, you're sincere about replacing that part of yourself with a loyalty to the Minmatar Republic. The thing is, you've already shown that you can turn your back on something you pledged loyalty to once - and with any moral dilemma, the first time is always the hardest. A lot of people - Amarrian and Minmatar both - are simply waiting for you to do it again, because if you do, it will undoubtedly be easier the second time. There's a reason people really don't trust the Nefantar.

You will be judged by your actions, not by your words or intentions, and both sides - for fairly similar reasons, ironically - will judge you pretty harshly no matter what you do.

But no-one said doing the right thing was easy, and if you can accomplish what you've set out to do despite that adversity, reaching the end of your journey will be all the more rewarding.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#23 - 2011-12-19 06:42:23 UTC
No matter what flag you fly under, even if it is one I fly against... I wish you luck.

Fly safe.

Katrina Oniseki

ValentinaDLM
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#24 - 2011-12-19 17:05:54 UTC
I wish you the best of luck with this choice, I think you made the right choice too. I admire your dedication to your ideals over corporation or nation. Truly you are a strong person in order to do that.
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#25 - 2011-12-19 17:18:39 UTC
Conventia Underking has proven herself on multiple occasions. What she did took courage, and while it may seem strange for a Matari to say this about an Amarrian, I am proud to fly at her side.

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....

Ugleb
Jotunn Risi
#26 - 2011-12-19 18:16:57 UTC
Conventia Underking wrote:
As some of you may have noticed, I recently left PIE Inc. and joined Teraa Matar. I would like to publicly pledge my allegiance to Avlynka Surionen, her corporation, Teraa Matar and her cause, ending the destruction of the Matari people.

I still believe in God and I will continue to spread His word and wisdom to those who are willing to listen. But I will no longer watch as people are humiliated and reduced to drug addicted, shells of their former selves. My family owns slaves, though I do not and they are treated with the same dignity and respect that we afford anyone else under our employ. I know that there are many good Holders out there, but as long as the Empire allows the mass abuse of slaves, I cannot support it, as sad as that makes me.


While I can congratulate you on your decision to take arms against the Empire, I must caution you on your adherence to the very religion that brought that Empire to darken the skies of my homeworld in the first place. Many of us do not trust any who would preach its tenets, and some will not welcome you.

You should continue to consider your both your words and actions with care as you walk among us.

http://uglebsjournal.wordpress.com/

The Jotunn Risi are now recruiting, Brutor ancestry required in order to best represent the Brutor interest.  Join channel JORIS to learn more!

Aphoxema G
Khushakor Clan
#27 - 2011-12-19 18:28:34 UTC
Ugleb wrote:
While I can congratulate you on your decision to take arms against the Empire, I must caution you on your adherence to the very religion that brought that Empire to darken the skies of my homeworld in the first place. Many of us do not trust any who would preach its tenets, and some will not welcome you.

You should continue to consider your both your words and actions with care as you walk among us.


It'll be a while before I bring her to my dinner parties. You know, after I start having dinner parties. I mean, unless it takes me a while to start going to dinner parties, then for all I know we'll go for the first time together.

... I am so throwing a party.
Alistair Cononach
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#28 - 2011-12-19 18:49:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Alistair Cononach
Conventia Underking wrote:
As some of you may have noticed, I recently left PIE Inc. and joined Teraa Matar. I would like to publicly pledge my allegiance to Avlynka Surionen, her corporation, Teraa Matar and her cause, ending the destruction of the Matari people.

I still believe in God and I will continue to spread His word and wisdom to those who are willing to listen. But I will no longer watch as people are humiliated and reduced to drug addicted, shells of their former selves. My family owns slaves, though I do not and they are treated with the same dignity and respect that we afford anyone else under our employ. I know that there are many good Holders out there, but as long as the Empire allows the mass abuse of slaves, I cannot support it, as sad as that makes me.

For more information, please read about the Vitoc Problem.


Just as true Faith can never be found in the sharp end of a Vitoc Needle, true change can never be brought to the Amarrian culture at the barrel-end of an Autocannon Turret.

The cause of ending Amarrian Slavery is one worth persuit.

However, you will never have a meaningful part in making that change happen from the outside, as a member of a violent paramillitary organization.

Change will come to Amarr, and it will come from within.

Of that, we can be certain. The only question is one of time.

But people who wage War on Amarr do more to serve the old pro-slavery hardliners than they do the modern liberal Amarrians cause.

Every Slave Ship you kill, every Amarrian Transport destroyed, serves only as grist to the Amarrian Establishment that the Matari are still savage, brutal killers who need to be brought to heel in the Faith.

Slavery will end, and it will end diplomaticly and culturally.

it will never end by the gun.
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#29 - 2011-12-19 19:18:10 UTC
Alistair Cononach wrote:

The only question is one of time.


The Empire has had seven hundred years to change of their own accord, and each of those seven hundred years have been filled with excuses. They pay lip-service to real change, but nothing ever actually changes, except for the unending rotation of excuses they use to justify their continuing endorsement of slavery.

Conventia and I may differ in our opinions (and for the record I don't think any less of her for that), but we've both seen what the Empire promises versus what it actually delivers. Frankly, the Empire has never followed through on its grand promises of reform, and we're simply tired of the endless rhetoric.

We don't want more 'politics'. We want real progress.

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....

Aphoxema G
Khushakor Clan
#30 - 2011-12-19 19:26:18 UTC
Alistair Cononach wrote:
it will never end by the gun.


It didn't get started with hugs and kisses. Without violence the first of the post-Amarr Minmatar wouldn't have escaped. Without violence, they wouldn't have freed more. Diplomacy is fine and should be the source of our compromise and eventual peace, but putting down our guns will not brings us any closer to mutual prosperity than Vitoc did.
Manwe Todako
Disciples of Ston
#31 - 2011-12-19 19:57:49 UTC
I pray and hope that the actions of Conventia Underking will serve to motivate an anti-slavery Monotheism in our cluster. One can hope that a theology of hope, freedom, and mercy will overtake the theology that has justified slavery for centuries. Pagans and Monotheists need not be on the same theological page, but both belief systems can strongly agree to oppose and end slavery.

Blessings be upon you, Ms. Underking and may you find strong family in the abolitionist community.

SANKOFA

Alistair Cononach
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#32 - 2011-12-19 20:15:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Alistair Cononach
Astrid Stjerna wrote:
The Empire has had seven hundred years to change of their own accord, and each of those seven hundred years have been filled with excuses.


Pre-Capsuleer Time is meaningless. The verse has changed on a fundamental level, and what came before is nothing.

Since the dawn of the New Age, there has already been progress, and more made every day.

The fact that I, an Amarrian, faithful to GOD, not the theocracy, am free to be openly liberal on the issue of Slavery, openly call for it's end, and a new course taken by the Faith to bring it's wisdom to those who seek it, speaks volumes in and of itself.

Time is the greatest weapon against the darkness of Slavery.

Time.

And with Time, the black and bloody scar on the Amarrian Soul that Slavery is WILL be laid low.

Quote:
We want real progress.


When, since the dawn of man, has shooting a man changed his mind?

It's a laughable childish tactic, used by wrongheaded fools throughout human history.

Progress cannot be made by force.

If it could, the Amarrian way, of slavery by force, would have worked.

The fact you don;t see the irony here is stunning.

In effect, you argue that Amarrian Faith can never convert by force, but Matari liberalism can.

Foolish children. Given the gift of being a Capsuleer, but apparently not enough sense to see the Slave Holders and the Slave Fighters are two sides of the same violent, circular repetative cycle coin.

That every ship you destroy or Amarrian settlement you raid, provides the Amarrian hardliners the fodder they need to plead their case against you in the Imperial Court of the Empress.

True change comes not from violence. But from diplomacy and conversation and time. Always time, especially now, in this new age, where men like us can and do rule Empires of our own.

Remember, Empires rarely fall due to threats from outside. They always fall from within.
Thgil Goldcore
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2011-12-19 20:30:12 UTC
Underking, I can hardly believe this at all. You of all people, whom I considered my friend, you never told me a thing. You could have at least told me WHY. But I suppose heresy would be a rather large pill to chew.

Our former friendship aside, this is just an affront to God, the Empire, and even a personal loss for me. It will not go unpunished and I will not hesitate to crush you or your new terrorist friends. You know perfectly well that you no longer serve God and anything you say to the contrary is nothing more than lies, and you know it! Calling your new friends 'shaman,' as if that meant something.

Aphoxema G
Khushakor Clan
#34 - 2011-12-19 20:40:49 UTC
Thgil Goldcore wrote:
Underking, I can hardly believe this at all. You of all people, whom I considered my friend, you never told me a thing. You could have at least told me WHY. But I suppose heresy would be a rather large pill to chew.

Our former friendship aside, this is just an affront to God, the Empire, and even a personal loss for me. It will not go unpunished and I will not hesitate to crush you or your new terrorist friends. You know perfectly well that you no longer serve God and anything you say to the contrary is nothing more than lies, and you know it! Calling your new friends 'shaman,' as if that meant something.



You are so not invited to my party now.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#35 - 2011-12-19 20:52:01 UTC
Thgil Goldcore wrote:
terrorist


Pretty sure soldiers in a legal war aren't Terrorists, infact I believe your superior defined the word Terrorist to be people involving themselves in the Amarr/Matari war from the outside in a previous conversation he and I had.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.

Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#36 - 2011-12-19 21:10:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Astrid Stjerna
Aphoxema G wrote:
Thgil Goldcore wrote:
Underking, I can hardly believe this at all. You of all people, whom I considered my friend, you never told me a thing. You could have at least told me WHY. But I suppose heresy would be a rather large pill to chew.

Our former friendship aside, this is just an affront to God, the Empire, and even a personal loss for me. It will not go unpunished and I will not hesitate to crush you or your new terrorist friends. You know perfectly well that you no longer serve God and anything you say to the contrary is nothing more than lies, and you know it! Calling your new friends 'shaman,' as if that meant something.



You are so not invited to my party now.


Oh, I don't know -- we could use a new pinata.

Captain Goldcore, I'll accept your implicit challenge. You think you can 'crush' us?

Bring...it...on.

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....

Edaine Numenor
Numenor Benevolent Holdings
#37 - 2011-12-19 21:44:48 UTC
Thgil Goldcore wrote:
Underking, I can hardly believe this at all. You of all people, whom I considered my friend, you never told me a thing. You could have at least told me WHY. But I suppose heresy would be a rather large pill to chew.

Our former friendship aside, this is just an affront to God, the Empire, and even a personal loss for me. It will not go unpunished and I will not hesitate to crush you or your new terrorist friends. You know perfectly well that you no longer serve God and anything you say to the contrary is nothing more than lies, and you know it! Calling your new friends 'shaman,' as if that meant something.



Ms. Goldcore,

I understand that you feel hurt, but perhaps you have been hasty to make such a strong statement publicly. I personally saw Ms. Underking in the Taberna Lunae last night. She was alone and the only other patron in the bar was me. I believe that she was looking for you. That would only make sense. But, now that you have spoken such hard words and promised violence, it is doubtful that she may seek you out. Is it not also the height of hubris to claim that only those who accept the Amarr system of religion serve God?

Before coming at your friend with guns blazing, perhaps you ought to renew the offer to sit down with her over a bottle of your family's famous spiced wine and have a conversation. You once told a friend of mine that he needed to have an open mind to your view. Are you having an open mind to her view now? Do you really judge her sincerity? I would hate to see you lose a valuable relationship over a hasty reaction to an unexpected turn of events.

Liberating slaves wherever, whenever, and however I can.

Aphoxema G
Khushakor Clan
#38 - 2011-12-19 21:47:22 UTC
Astrid Stjerna wrote:
Oh, I don't know -- we could use a new pinata.

Captain Goldcore, I'll accept your implicit challenge. You think you can 'crush' us?

Bring...it...on.


Wait, wait... it worked once, maybe it'll work again.

Thgil Goldcore... join us.
Thgil Goldcore
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2011-12-19 23:08:25 UTC
Edaine Numenor wrote:


Ms. Goldcore,

I understand that you feel hurt, but perhaps you have been hasty to make such a strong statement publicly. I personally saw Ms. Underking in the Taberna Lunae last night. She was alone and the only other patron in the bar was me. I believe that she was looking for you. That would only make sense. But, now that you have spoken such hard words and promised violence, it is doubtful that she may seek you out. Is it not also the height of hubris to claim that only those who accept the Amarr system of religion serve God?

Before coming at your friend with guns blazing, perhaps you ought to renew the offer to sit down with her over a bottle of your family's famous spiced wine and have a conversation. You once told a friend of mine that he needed to have an open mind to your view. Are you having an open mind to her view now? Do you really judge her sincerity? I would hate to see you lose a valuable relationship over a hasty reaction to an unexpected turn of events.


While I appreciate the attempt at serving as a moderator Mr. Numenor, but high treason is no small matter, or simple misunderstanding. It's not like we can have a simple glass of wine, talk it over, have some laughs, and go back to how they where. This relationship ended the moment she decided to start shooting at my friends and empire. I will not hesitate to end an enemy to the Empire.

This is really a simple matter:
It is my duty to destroy enemies of the Empire.
The witch Underking has proven in word and action that she is an enemy of the Empire.
I will work to destroy her.

I weep for her family.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#40 - 2011-12-19 23:12:51 UTC
Thgil Goldcore wrote:
The witch


I'm going to start calling you Scagga.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.