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Circadian Seekers, a Study

Author
Luna Hanaya
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#61 - 2015-01-19 09:21:34 UTC
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Insult them again and see what happens. We need to see if the result is repeatable.

Insulting someone to get attention is very bad tone.

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Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#62 - 2015-01-19 09:25:56 UTC
Luna Hanaya wrote:
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Insult them again and see what happens. We need to see if the result is repeatable.

Insulting someone to get attention is very bad tone.


Drones aren't 'someone' until proven otherwise.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#63 - 2015-01-19 17:32:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Jaret Victorian wrote:
Hey, since you are shooting them... I have an idea:

Shoot seekers, then dock. Change your ship to Zephyr, undock and see if they continue to fight back.




The Zephyr looks silly enough that I don't want to be seen getting shot in one.


It would be worthwhile to see if they are basing their aggression continence on the pilot or the ship. It may be possible that, given their scanning behavior, each ship has a kind of electromagnetic or energy "fingerprint" that they lock onto. Our own directional scanners tell us what's in the detected range well enough.

A converse test would be to attack them with one ship, then swap the pilots of the same ship, maybe even in space if one wants to risk it (or the hilarity of the kill report being shared amongst ones peers), and see if the sleepers press their re-engagement on the same ship.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Temba Mapindazi
#64 - 2015-01-20 01:36:25 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Jaret Victorian wrote:
Hey, since you are shooting them... I have an idea:

Shoot seekers, then dock. Change your ship to Zephyr, undock and see if they continue to fight back.




The Zephyr looks silly enough that I don't want to be seen getting shot in one.


It would be worthwhile to see if they are basing their aggression continence on the pilot or the ship. It may be possible that, given their scanning behavior, each ship has a kind of electromagnetic or energy "fingerprint" that they lock onto. Our own directional scanners tell us what's in the detected range well enough.

A converse test would be to attack them with one ship, then swap the pilots of the same ship, maybe even in space if one wants to risk it (or the hilarity of the kill report being shared amongst ones peers), and see if the sleepers press their re-engagement on the same ship.

This habit they have developed of tracking capsuleers is quite troublesome in my humble opinion.

I am sorely tempted to hang a POS in a system with sleeper activity, engage them and warp to my heavily armed POS and see if they can be baited into point, scramble, and gun range. Then determine if they continue to return to attack a "hostile" POS.

My concern is that if they are indeed in this seemingly accelerated learning curve do I dare give them a reason to start targeting POS?

I post this looking for reasoned feedback before I proceed.

I realize my actions may well affect others so I want input from fellow pilots who have engaged these high sec sleepers.

A combat pilot must have two goals to survive,  #1 get the first shot in every fight , #2 get the last shot in every fight!

Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2015-01-20 02:03:47 UTC
Temba Mapindazi wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Jaret Victorian wrote:
Hey, since you are shooting them... I have an idea:

Shoot seekers, then dock. Change your ship to Zephyr, undock and see if they continue to fight back.




The Zephyr looks silly enough that I don't want to be seen getting shot in one.


It would be worthwhile to see if they are basing their aggression continence on the pilot or the ship. It may be possible that, given their scanning behavior, each ship has a kind of electromagnetic or energy "fingerprint" that they lock onto. Our own directional scanners tell us what's in the detected range well enough.

A converse test would be to attack them with one ship, then swap the pilots of the same ship, maybe even in space if one wants to risk it (or the hilarity of the kill report being shared amongst ones peers), and see if the sleepers press their re-engagement on the same ship.

This habit they have developed of tracking capsuleers is quite troublesome in my humble opinion.

I am sorely tempted to hang a POS in a system with sleeper activity, engage them and warp to my heavily armed POS and see if they can be baited into point, scramble, and gun range. Then determine if they continue to return to attack a "hostile" POS.

My concern is that if they are indeed in this seemingly accelerated learning curve do I dare give them a reason to start targeting POS?

I post this looking for reasoned feedback before I proceed.

I realize my actions may well affect others so I want input from fellow pilots who have engaged these high sec sleepers.


I would suggest that you get friends capable of organising a counter-siege maneuver before attempting to tempt them into attacking a POS, just in case they actually attempt to siege the POS. Still, I doubt their combined firepower can break the POS shields.

Let's try and see if we can tease out a Sleeper Dreadnought.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Crystal Chantreuse
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#66 - 2015-01-20 05:28:27 UTC
Update: In the Standard Sleeper Cache sites, it has been determined that uploading the coordinates to the calibration device does not open a rift to a new area. Instead, the low-power slot will warp a short distance within the same area, closer to the tractor unit. High-power will warp the pilot to the other end of the area, near the defense structures. We have determined that once the guardians are activated, assaulting the defense grid may cause an explosion that does reveal another rift that warps the pilot to a third area. Within this area is another defense module which must be breached to reveal several containers to also be hacked as well as an additional defense module. This new defense module must be continuously breached in order to reset a timer which would otherwise initiate a self-destruct of the cargo containers. It is recommended that a team of pilots be employed to handle this area: one to hack the containers, and one to keep the self-destruct module cool. I believe that this completes the information to be discovered about the Standard Sleeper Cache Data Sites. If more is to be found, I will be certain to report it.

~Crystal Chantreuse, Janitorial Services Manager

Crystal Chantreuse
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2015-01-20 05:32:45 UTC
Additional Information: The third area yielded blue print copies: 10-run Polarized Small Pulse Laser and 3-Run Polarized Mega Pulse Laser, as well as more common sleeper data materials.

~Crystal Chantreuse, Janitorial Services Manager

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#68 - 2015-01-20 07:39:13 UTC
Temba Mapindazi wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Jaret Victorian wrote:
Hey, since you are shooting them... I have an idea:

Shoot seekers, then dock. Change your ship to Zephyr, undock and see if they continue to fight back.




The Zephyr looks silly enough that I don't want to be seen getting shot in one.


It would be worthwhile to see if they are basing their aggression continence on the pilot or the ship. It may be possible that, given their scanning behavior, each ship has a kind of electromagnetic or energy "fingerprint" that they lock onto. Our own directional scanners tell us what's in the detected range well enough.

A converse test would be to attack them with one ship, then swap the pilots of the same ship, maybe even in space if one wants to risk it (or the hilarity of the kill report being shared amongst ones peers), and see if the sleepers press their re-engagement on the same ship.

This habit they have developed of tracking capsuleers is quite troublesome in my humble opinion.

I am sorely tempted to hang a POS in a system with sleeper activity, engage them and warp to my heavily armed POS and see if they can be baited into point, scramble, and gun range. Then determine if they continue to return to attack a "hostile" POS.

My concern is that if they are indeed in this seemingly accelerated learning curve do I dare give them a reason to start targeting POS?

I post this looking for reasoned feedback before I proceed.

I realize my actions may well affect others so I want input from fellow pilots who have engaged these high sec sleepers.


Be advised that there is an air of escalation about them. Engaged with a battleship using a web drone, they orbit closely. Use web and scram, they orbit just out of range. Kill 2 of 4, then 4 more show up for 6.

They have therefore in the latter point shown that they can call in reinforcements.

Pilots operating in wormholes have reported that the sleepers there can "respond in kind" to shows of aggression.

So I'm thinking that the sleepers could be aggressive enough to spend all day on your POS given the chance.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#69 - 2015-01-20 07:41:01 UTC
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Temba Mapindazi wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Jaret Victorian wrote:
Hey, since you are shooting them... I have an idea:

Shoot seekers, then dock. Change your ship to Zephyr, undock and see if they continue to fight back.




The Zephyr looks silly enough that I don't want to be seen getting shot in one.


It would be worthwhile to see if they are basing their aggression continence on the pilot or the ship. It may be possible that, given their scanning behavior, each ship has a kind of electromagnetic or energy "fingerprint" that they lock onto. Our own directional scanners tell us what's in the detected range well enough.

A converse test would be to attack them with one ship, then swap the pilots of the same ship, maybe even in space if one wants to risk it (or the hilarity of the kill report being shared amongst ones peers), and see if the sleepers press their re-engagement on the same ship.

This habit they have developed of tracking capsuleers is quite troublesome in my humble opinion.

I am sorely tempted to hang a POS in a system with sleeper activity, engage them and warp to my heavily armed POS and see if they can be baited into point, scramble, and gun range. Then determine if they continue to return to attack a "hostile" POS.

My concern is that if they are indeed in this seemingly accelerated learning curve do I dare give them a reason to start targeting POS?

I post this looking for reasoned feedback before I proceed.

I realize my actions may well affect others so I want input from fellow pilots who have engaged these high sec sleepers.


I would suggest that you get friends capable of organising a counter-siege maneuver before attempting to tempt them into attacking a POS, just in case they actually attempt to siege the POS. Still, I doubt their combined firepower can break the POS shields.

Let's try and see if we can tease out a Sleeper Dreadnought.



A sleeper dreadnought, in empire space - that just might garner enough attention from the empire to take interest in this.

Of course, the empires are at their weakest in these times.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Temba Mapindazi
#70 - 2015-01-20 08:33:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Temba Mapindazi
A sleeper dreadnaught in highsec might be the only jolt that will get the empires/ concord off their collective plump bottoms and responding with more than just wordy warnings to all pilots.

Somehow I think if that happens the prohibition currently enforced against capital war ships in highsec would collapse, and many will argue perhaps it is time it did.

If the sleepers can operate beyond the laws enforced by concord in highsec how long before capsuleers start to ignore them also?

The lack of action by the empires might well set the stage for their own demise.

Then the mindless anarchy of nullsec would infest all of humanity, truly a sad state of affairs. I hope sincerely that I am wrong and overreacting, but a nose under the tent is often a precursor to the whole shebang being upended.

Having lived for some time in nullsec I do not wish to see those never ending allways escalating fights starting to blossom in highsec. I know that once a sleeper capital ship finds a way into highsec all bets are off. Capsuleers will want and demand to be allowed to respond in kind and concord will eventually be forced to allow it.

As a sidebar note, does anyone have a report of these sleeper drones attacking non-capsuleer shipping? Could the reluctance of of the empires/ concord be due to the fact that only capsuleers and not baseline humans are being targeted?

Certainly as capsuleers many of us do not fly with the sole interests of a particular empire in mind exclusively, could it be that concord feels they have no obligation to help maintain a minimal expectation of safe transit in empire space for capsuleer shippng anymore? Are we being relegated to a status of a necessary evil, good for commerce and it's swift flow amongst the stars and nothing else? Is this the start of a new era that will usher in a hands off approach by concord except to protect the interests of baseliners?

Explain why Cicadian Seeker Drones can engage capsuleers outside of stations and jump gates that are armed with guns without triggering a response to their criminal behavior? Are we being used as entertainment or sacrificial offerings?

These are indeed troublesome times my fellow capsuleers, troublesome times.

A combat pilot must have two goals to survive,  #1 get the first shot in every fight , #2 get the last shot in every fight!

Crystal Chantreuse
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#71 - 2015-01-20 08:56:12 UTC
Rifts, Mines, and Turrets of Doom.

My team has discovered a new location, reading as "Superior Sleeper Cache." I have my best probe pilot on the job, but the signal has proven immensely difficult to pinpoint. Simply scanning down these sites will be a challenge.

The initial warp-in is similar to the Standard site: One module to breach in order to reveal a rift for travel to a secondary area.
The secondary room holds three Dented Storage Depts, two Intact Storage Depots, one Mangled Storage Depot, and one Pristine Storage Depot. Also to be breached are a Remote Reroute Unit and a Solray Observational Unit. Three rifts are apparent in the area, and what appears to be a Sleeper Multiplex Forwarer and a Solary Unaligned Power Terminal, which do not seem to offer interactions. The rifts are already useable, two of which are closer to the warp-in beacon, and one quite far away. The far rift is where the Reroute is located. Other modules are relatively closer to the warp-in. Each of the rifts has a beacon next to it. After some time in the area, a Solar Flare emitted from the Solay power terminal caused damage to the hacking pilot. Hacking the Solray Observational Unit yields a Radio Ray Modulate Disc, which must be inserted into the one of the Solray Infrared Alignment Unit, Solray Radio Alignment Unit, or Solray Gamma Alignment Unit , one near each rift in the area. In this case, it was obviously the Radio. Doing so reduced the solar flare energy so that the pilot may access the containers near it. The hacking pilot used one of the rifts, attempting to reach the far end, but it sent him to an additional area. The pilot held off on handling this area, and used an available rift in that area to return to the secondary area and continue activities. The pilot's only choice was to slow-travel to the solar ray alignment unit to insert the chip and deactivate the flare. Breaching the Remote Reroute Unit nearby reroutes the rift also located nearby. This allowed the pilot to warp to the initial warp-in within this same secondary area. He then approached the containers near the flare area, which was significantaly reduced in its intensity, allowing the pilot to attempting breaching the containers. The pilot was able to breach some containers in the secondary area, obtaining a 3-run copy of what was labeled as " 'Slither' Heavy Electron Blaster I Blueprint", a 1-run blueprint copy of "Polarized Small Pulse Laser", a large quantity of Sleeper Data Libraries, several Neural Networks, literature for Minmatar Starship Engineering and Amarr Starship Engineering. After successfully breaching all unit in the area, the team employed one of the closer-by rifts, one he had not tried before. Instead of warping us to the tertiary area initially discovered, it instead sent us to another far spot in the same area. This sector contained a Remote Defense Grid Unit which the pilot hacked, reavealing several explosive mines, as well as another Intact Storage Depot, and Pristine Storage Depot. These containers yielded a 1-run copy of Polarized Mega Pulse Laser, a few Ancient Coordinates Databases, and some Inexplicable Drone Junk. At this point, we returned to the rift that sent us to the tertiary area.

This area contained three Plasma Chamber structures, two Dented storage depots, three Intact store depots, two Mangled storage depots, two Pristine storage depots, a Sentry Repair Station, a Vessel Rejuvenation Battery, a Hyperfluct Generator, and six defense Sentries. Be advised: DO NOT ATTACK THE SENTRIES. They may still be destroyed at this point, with plenty of firepower and plenty of tank, but it is recommended to avoid this altogether.

After succesffully destroying the sentries, hacking resumed. These containers yielded a 1-run blueprint copy for a Polarized 200mm Autocannon, several Sleeper Data Libraries, a 1-run Polarized Mega Pulse Laser blueprint copy, several Neural Network Analyzers, several R.A.M. items, three units of what appeared to be a Sleeper Drone AI Nexus, a 3-run blueprint copy for a 100MN Digital Booster Rocket, a 1-run Polarized Heavy Pulse Laser blueprint copy and a few base modules. Hacking the Hyperfluct Generator revealed yet another useble rift.

Upon warping into a fourth area, we were surrounded by a massive amount of Archive Wreckage and Smoldering Archive Ruins. Among the dangerous debris and hazardous materials, we identified three Cerebrum Maintenance Chambers, a Defense Targeting Augmentation Unit, and a seemingly inaccessable Central Archive Cerebrum. Failing a hack activates a defense. Four Archive Sentry Towers, at least. At this point, the pilot attempted hacking into the Defense Targeting Augmentation Unit, which proved to be extremely resistant, but success caused them to be Impaired, and revealed a Pristine container. Successfully hacking the maintenance chambers yields items for restoring the central Cerebrum: Intravenous Oscillation Fluid, Nanoplastic Membrane Patch, and Self-regulating Machine Gears. Putting these items into the Central Archive causes nine more storage depots and three vessel rejuvenation batteries to appear, but causes the area to become unstable, summoning another sentry and lethal shockwaves. It is again a race against time for the hacker. Over time, the shockwaves become more powerful. Colossal. At this point, the hacker lost his ship and the site was evacuated. Much was learned from exploring this site. I look forward to the next.

~Crystal Chantreuse, Janitorial Services Manager

Temba Mapindazi
#72 - 2015-01-24 06:50:40 UTC
UPDATE:

When engaging the Cicadian Sleeper drones in combat I have noticed an extremely disturbing occurrence, drones used to attack the sleeper drones continually revert to idle mode mid-fight. I use Geckos, integrated hobgoblins, ECM drones and all classes of drones seem to want to shut down during the fight which can reduce the dps I am putting on a target, or incrase the dps I am enduring. Placing your drones in aggressive mode reduces the idle to fighting transition but runs the risk of a foolish bystander getting targeted and Concord responding.

If the Cicadian Sleeper drones are emitting some type of jamming that drops drones out of fight mode into idle mode I certainly want that program to install on my ECM drones.

A combat pilot must have two goals to survive,  #1 get the first shot in every fight , #2 get the last shot in every fight!

Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#73 - 2015-01-24 11:09:51 UTC
Or maybe the drones and sleepers have similarities, and your insistence to attack Sleepers with no other plan will net no real results. If you try to bash a square into a circle a few thousand times and it still doesn't fit, maybe you're going about it wrong.

-Eran
Eojek
Starlight Moly
#74 - 2015-01-24 20:09:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Eojek
Temba Mapindazi wrote:
Having lived for some time in nullsec I do not wish to see those never ending allways escalating fights starting to blossom in highsec. I know that once a sleeper capital ship finds a way into highsec all bets are off. Capsuleers will want and demand to be allowed to respond in kind and concord will eventually be forced to allow it.


Dreadnaughts are vulnerable to smaller, faster ships. A crew of good destroyer or friggate pilots can take one down, albeit slowly. The largest weapons do little to no damage at close range to small ship. Try logging into your capsule into the SiSi Test Software (downloadable on Galnet) and shooting an assault friggate at close range.... while it is double webbed. Drone swarms also eat siege-moded dreadnaughts alive.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#75 - 2015-01-24 21:12:07 UTC
mr ed thehouseofed wrote:
has anyone noticed the group sizes are changing more often? i have seen them in groups of 2,3,4 and 5 lately , where for awhile it was always 5 where i mine



I have dealt with up to 6 at a time.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#76 - 2015-01-24 21:16:29 UTC
Temba Mapindazi wrote:
UPDATE:

When engaging the Cicadian Sleeper drones in combat I have noticed an extremely disturbing occurrence, drones used to attack the sleeper drones continually revert to idle mode mid-fight. I use Geckos, integrated hobgoblins, ECM drones and all classes of drones seem to want to shut down during the fight which can reduce the dps I am putting on a target, or incrase the dps I am enduring. Placing your drones in aggressive mode reduces the idle to fighting transition but runs the risk of a foolish bystander getting targeted and Concord responding.

If the Cicadian Sleeper drones are emitting some type of jamming that drops drones out of fight mode into idle mode I certainly want that program to install on my ECM drones.



Yes in s recent engagement SSTG Darkhound had the effect of drones idling numerous times. A second ship more suited for drone usage, SSTG Shewolf, had 2x Gecko, 2x Tigershark and 1x Integrated Hobgoblin and not only did they fall off into idle mode randomly, at times the engagement command, while sending the idled drones back into engagement, would cause other drones to fall back into idle mode.

This suggests that the sleepers are deploying some kind of advanced hacking of drone communications. The worst of my theory is that this might be only the beginning. Presently they could make a drone "forget" it's engagement directive in combat, which is merely frustrating enough, but I fear that as the sleepers have shown they can learn and adapt, we may even find ourselves being attacked by our own drones.

And beyond that, for even darker concerns, the prospect of the wrong capsuleers getting hold of that technology.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Eojek
Starlight Moly
#77 - 2015-01-24 21:21:29 UTC
Circumvented by a continuous reminder to your drones to engage the target.... at an interval of about every five seconds. A Paladin crew had to do this when the pilot neglected to fit a Federation Navy issued stasis webifier and warp-scrambler.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#78 - 2015-02-02 20:04:19 UTC
Elmund Egivand wrote:


Let's try and see if we can tease out a Sleeper Dreadnought.

Oh, yes, lets do that.

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epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#79 - 2015-02-03 11:52:27 UTC
Be cautious, do not act precipitously, do not provoke.

Or our grandchildren will curse you for being the cause of their misery.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Captain Davison
Malachi Keep Detachments
#80 - 2015-02-07 14:42:11 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Be cautious, do not act precipitously, do not provoke.

Or our grandchildren will curse you for being the cause of their misery.


Too late for that. I think they're well and proper riled up now.