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AGh... This is why I hate doing markets.

First post
Author
Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#1 - 2015-01-20 02:00:37 UTC
I had the same pessimistic feeling about EVE pvp (as if it was murphies law online) that I did about markets, which is why I never bothered to dabble in them. Recently I discovered an implant not really being sold, but is usefull. So I nabbed a few and sold them for about 1.6 mill each. About 5 a week and bought them for 375,000 in the first place is a small profit, and this is saturating areas, by placing a few in different regions so they'd be seen on a few markets.

I recently checked back to place a few more, and some knucklehead has placed 40 of them on the market for 400,000 isk. Not even trying to make money there bud? If you sell 5 avg a week entirely taking out the LP. You make 125,000 isk a week, and now i'm definitely not making anything.

I don't know if to call this min/maxing ? or?? I don't even know what to call it. It's not like i even told anybody I was selling anything, let alone doing this.

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh — a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroism… qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?

Serene Repose
#2 - 2015-01-20 02:02:45 UTC
Besides the obvious answer to this whine post, you might try posting in the correct sub-section.
Prepare to be roasted. Twisted

We must accommodate the idiocracy.

Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2015-01-20 02:06:10 UTC
My cat just jumped up on the tv stand and my wife yelled out "NO! DOWN! You will RUIN your eyes!"

I don't know why, but it felt appropriate in this thread.
Vyl Vit
#4 - 2015-01-20 02:08:16 UTC
Hi. I market. Yeah. All marketing skills to V. Be very jealous. To all who are thinking about doing this very rich and dynamic end of EVE, before you begin, take a look at it. Take a close look. The market does have a life. It has tendencies, characteristics and trends. It has a regular group of "players", and it has dabblers, and one-time failures like the OP here.

For example, take an item you find is used a lot, such as an ammo type, and over a period of time, call it up in your market panel and just examine it. Look at selling prices - under that buying prices. Look at locations, amounts of the item, amounts of contracts offering the items. LOOK AT IT ALL. Then follow it for a week. While you're doing this GOOGLE. GOOGLE. GOOGLE. READ READ READ. There's TONS of information out there. It's enviable and it strikes me with PRIDE that I play EVE!

THEN...PLAN YOUR FIRST MOVE. Be prepared for some trial and error. And, believe, you're going to be thinking long and hard before you come up with an innovation. EVE has some real experts at this. (I hope to be one, too!)

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.

Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#5 - 2015-01-20 02:10:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Hal Morsh
Well it's like when I was a newbie in a mining corporation, I figured "hey I have minerals and can make things" so I decided to make shuttles and haul them to a lowsec clonebay nearby. since I didn't see any for sale. Someone bought all of them and placed them at a stupid high price, so I made more and shipped them down. Can you guess how many sold? non.

It seems someone else came after that and placed some at such a low price it was impossible for me to make any money, not even small pickings for a newbie.

I feel as if others get off on doing this, all sadistic looking at the market "YOU CAN'T HAVE IT!". I unno.

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh — a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroism… qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?

Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#6 - 2015-01-20 02:20:40 UTC
Hal Morsh wrote:
I don't know if to call this min/maxing ? or?? I don't even know what to call it. It's not like i even told anybody I was selling anything, let alone doing this.


I call it "You got marketpwnd bro".

Assuming I would ever use the term "Bro"... or "marketpwnd"... or even "you"...

I think I used "got" once.. maybe.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

Sugar Smacks
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2015-01-20 02:27:14 UTC
Hal Morsh wrote:
Well it's like when I was a newbie in a mining corporation, I figured "hey I have minerals and can make things" so I decided to make shuttles and haul them to a lowsec clonebay nearby. since I didn't see any for sale. Someone bought all of them and placed them at a stupid high price, so I made more and shipped them down. Can you guess how many sold? non.

It seems someone else came after that and placed some at such a low price it was impossible for me to make any money, not even small pickings for a newbie.

I feel as if others get off on doing this, all sadistic looking at the market "YOU CAN'T HAVE IT!". I unno.


This is how you force your competition out of business.
Did you go back a month later and check if all of a sudden the prices are back up?

Kind of like the real world and oil prices.
Pok Nibin
Doomheim
#8 - 2015-01-20 02:27:25 UTC
I know a guy who wanted to work on his barn roof. It was early one November day, and he puts up his ladder and climbs up spending half the day nailing away. Lunch time he decides to come down to grab a bite. He steps on his ladder, it seems to sink about three feet, falls over and he falls with it a good one and a half-stories landing in the ER and a hospital bed for three weeks. The moral of this story is, when you set your ladder down on that object early in the morning, make sure it's not a pile of frozen manure that's sure to thaw out by noon.

TL;DR? Before you try something, find out if it has the possibility of success. Sometimes, it's just an educated guess.

The right to free speech doesn't automatically carry with it the right to be taken seriously.

Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#9 - 2015-01-20 02:36:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Hal Morsh
Edit:

Huge derp. I ended up selling the wrong item and not realizing it.

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh — a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroism… qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?

Serene Repose
#10 - 2015-01-20 03:33:27 UTC
Actually, prices that accurately reflect market values are better than low, or high prices. A price is "high" or "low" in relation to ones income. If people were paid fairly, for once in the history of mankind, the definition of "low" and "high" would change considerably. Neither would be helpful. "Fair" pricing might be a more accurate term. Even if wages were fair, one still might not make enough to buy that "thing". It may not be such a good idea to lower the price of that thing, just so someone who can't afford it can now buy it. Even with all things being fair, which they never have been, you will still have the affordability issue....condition?

We must accommodate the idiocracy.

Yourmoney Mywallet
Doomheim
#11 - 2015-01-20 03:37:55 UTC
Vyl Vit wrote:
Hi. I market. Yeah. All marketing skills to V. Be very jealous. To all who are thinking about doing this very rich and dynamic end of EVE, before you begin, take a look at it. Take a close look. The market does have a life. It has tendencies, characteristics and trends. It has a regular group of "players", and it has dabblers, and one-time failures like the OP here.

For example, take an item you find is used a lot, such as an ammo type, and over a period of time, call it up in your market panel and just examine it. Look at selling prices - under that buying prices. Look at locations, amounts of the item, amounts of contracts offering the items. LOOK AT IT ALL. Then follow it for a week. While you're doing this GOOGLE. GOOGLE. GOOGLE. READ READ READ. There's TONS of information out there. It's enviable and it strikes me with PRIDE that I play EVE!

THEN...PLAN YOUR FIRST MOVE. Be prepared for some trial and error. And, believe, you're going to be thinking long and hard before you come up with an innovation. EVE has some real experts at this. (I hope to be one, too!)

This is all fine and dandy until you come up against the "I mined my minerals myself, so they're free"-crowd. No amount of research can counter that level of idiocy.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#12 - 2015-01-20 04:14:30 UTC
Sugar Smacks wrote:
Hal Morsh wrote:
Well it's like when I was a newbie in a mining corporation, I figured "hey I have minerals and can make things" so I decided to make shuttles and haul them to a lowsec clonebay nearby. since I didn't see any for sale. Someone bought all of them and placed them at a stupid high price, so I made more and shipped them down. Can you guess how many sold? non.

It seems someone else came after that and placed some at such a low price it was impossible for me to make any money, not even small pickings for a newbie.

I feel as if others get off on doing this, all sadistic looking at the market "YOU CAN'T HAVE IT!". I unno.


This is how you force your competition out of business.
Did you go back a month later and check if all of a sudden the prices are back up?

Kind of like the real world and oil prices.


Long may they stay low.
Vyl Vit
#13 - 2015-01-20 05:00:53 UTC
Yourmoney Mywallet wrote:
Vyl Vit wrote:
Hi. I market. Yeah. All marketing skills to V. Be very jealous. To all who are thinking about doing this very rich and dynamic end of EVE, before you begin, take a look at it. Take a close look. The market does have a life. It has tendencies, characteristics and trends. It has a regular group of "players", and it has dabblers, and one-time failures like the OP here.

For example, take an item you find is used a lot, such as an ammo type, and over a period of time, call it up in your market panel and just examine it. Look at selling prices - under that buying prices. Look at locations, amounts of the item, amounts of contracts offering the items. LOOK AT IT ALL. Then follow it for a week. While you're doing this GOOGLE. GOOGLE. GOOGLE. READ READ READ. There's TONS of information out there. It's enviable and it strikes me with PRIDE that I play EVE!

THEN...PLAN YOUR FIRST MOVE. Be prepared for some trial and error. And, believe, you're going to be thinking long and hard before you come up with an innovation. EVE has some real experts at this. (I hope to be one, too!)

This is all fine and dandy until you come up against the "I mined my minerals myself, so they're free"-crowd. No amount of research can counter that level of idiocy.
Well, no....countering a "move" on the market isn't always possible. The research part tells you if what you have in mind is doable. In the instance you cite, that could be called an "unstable" market, and so the information you're getting will be erratic and therefore problematic - not good ground for investment.

Sometimes knowing tells you when NOT to make a move.

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.

Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2015-01-20 08:57:05 UTC
Graduate into markets which are not run by mouthbreathing hiseccers into markets which are run by mouthbreahing nullseccers, higher profit.
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2015-01-20 09:06:08 UTC
Adrie Atticus wrote:
Graduate into markets which are not run by mouthbreathing hiseccers into markets which are run by mouthbreahing nullseccers, higher profit.

GE-8JV isn't a great trader's market.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein

Trajan Unknown
Reikoku
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#16 - 2015-01-20 09:18:46 UTC
When I use several hundred billions to work with a few ISK per "item" will make a good cut. So if you like to get into real trading stop thinking little. Think about how you can destroy the market in a small system, overtake it, make profit out of it and grow your wallet. Don´t bother with the real tradehubs where you don´t stand a chance except you find a niche and be smart and fast.
Sometimes you can make a really good cut in the tradehubs because someone messed up, donates stuff (quitting eve) or tried to scam someone with a contract and didn´t know how to count zero´s. :D
Trading is the most brutal form of PvP EvE can offer you. It´s like the united states back in the 18th century, just a little less rules. Get a Rockefeller mentality and destroy the opposition.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#17 - 2015-01-20 11:04:11 UTC
This thread has been moved to Market Discussions.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#18 - 2015-01-20 11:07:38 UTC
So OP what exactly is stopping you from buying him out and re-listing them at 1.6 million?
Tim Timpson
Solitude Trading
#19 - 2015-01-20 11:36:52 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
So OP what exactly is stopping you from buying him out and re-listing them at 1.6 million?
This. If 1.6m is a reasonable price and a decent volume moves at that prices, then the obvious answer is to relist. For an implant that comes from the LP store, deduct the isk fee then divide the rest by the LP. If it's working out at less than 500/LP, it's generally worth grabbing them all and relisting them in a few different regions if they sell. If it's a terrible implant that nobody wants, cut your losses and start again.
Piter Presley
Presley Enterprises
#20 - 2015-01-20 11:39:23 UTC
Op should think about diversification. Trade with at least 50 items, so that price drops for signle items don't matter that much anymore.

Maybe the guy who undercut you bought his stuff for cheap. I only check if the gap between buy and sell order is big enough to start trading with an item and then sell it for the local price no matter how much the item costs in other locations. So it migth happen that the same item is sold for much more somewhere else.
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