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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Life of PI? Perhaps not

Author
Maximus Martinus
Eternal Darkness.
The Initiative.
#1 - 2015-01-19 14:38:10 UTC
I used Uniwiki, Evelopedia and Youtube to set up my first simple PI (base metals and gases) in high sec. After a day's production I launched the products and retrieved them from a customs station with a tax rate of 30%. I had to pay >700k to transfer goods that were worth <600k, not very good economics.

Can someone explain simply how the charge is calculated? I didn't find the Uniwiki PI page, Profit! paragraph very useful.

MM

We are here to educate and amuse

Velicitia
XS Tech
#2 - 2015-01-19 14:41:09 UTC
Hisec has a base of 5 or 10% from CONCORD (IIRC), in addition to whatever charges the owner of the POCO put on top.

would need to dig up the devblog / explanation ... but effectively each type (P0 / P1 / P2 / etc.) has the same base price, regardless of how valuable it is in the overall economy.

Note - it's been a while since I've bothered reading up on PI, things may have changed in regards to taxes.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#3 - 2015-01-19 14:51:22 UTC
If the POCO is player owned, the owners can set the tax to practically anything they want. Many do so to discourage use of some planets.

Highsec is an alien and exotic place I know very little of, but I am under the impression most highsec POCO's are also run by player corporations nowadays.
Black Pedro
Mine.
#4 - 2015-01-19 15:58:13 UTC
Maximus Martinus wrote:
I used Uniwiki, Evelopedia and Youtube to set up my first simple PI (base metals and gases) in high sec. After a day's production I launched the products and retrieved them from a customs station with a tax rate of 30%. I had to pay >700k to transfer goods that were worth <600k, not very good economics.

Can someone explain simply how the charge is calculated? I didn't find the Uniwiki PI page, Profit! paragraph very useful.

MM

The tax rate is set by the player corp that owns the Customs Office - 30% is quite high. The base rate that it is taxed on is set by CCP and changed from time-to-time to track what the general price of them are. You can indeed see this in the Profit! section of the Eve Uni page although I am not entirely sure those numbers are up to date.

So a 30% tax rate would mean you are charged 30% of whatever number is listed in that chart which may or may not bear any resemblance to the actual market value of the items you are exporting.

Honestly, in general, highsec PI isn't worth the effort under even ideal circumstances let alone a 30% tax rate. The planets are poor quality and there is a minimum 10% NPC tax rate. Either find a lower tax rate planet, or better yet move to lowsec once you have figured the interface out. The planets are much better, lowsec isn't that dangerous once you learn the basics and where the camps are likely to be, and you only have to stop by once a week or so to pick up the products so you can still spend most of your life in highsec.

Alternatively, find a corp who owns POCOs and make a deal with them or even join up.



Celine Sophia Maricadie
Tal-Cel Industry and Salvage LLC
#5 - 2015-01-19 17:29:19 UTC
When choosing a planet to set up your Planetary colony you can "show info" on that planet's POCO and you'll see the tax rate. If it's set very high, like 30%, find a different planet to go with. A 30% rate is the owners basically indicating they don't want anyone else, except those they may set more favorably by use of standings, to enjoy a better rate. Chances are their internal rate is minimal. At some point another corp may declare war on them to bring down the POCO and then set up their own.

A more reasonable rate would be in the 15% range. I've seen them as low as about 11% and I consider over 15% getting into the high range.

And these rates are always subject to change without notice Blink.
Chal0ner
Hideaway Hunters
The Hideaway.
#6 - 2015-01-19 20:44:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Chal0ner
Black Pedro wrote:
or better yet move to lowsec once you have figured the interface out. The planets are much better, lowsec isn't that dangerous once you learn the basics and where the camps are likely to be, and you only have to stop by once a week or so to pick up the products so you can still spend most of your life in highsec.


Hey, don't show him my low sec pocket! Or well ... I might move my stuff null sec anyway. J'Poll might know where it is - I noticed some of his corp moved in there some time ago ...

+1 for quiet low sec for PI.
Bagatur I
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2015-01-19 22:26:41 UTC
at such a high POCO-owner-set tax you are better off using your command center to export the goods. it ignores the player-set tax, but you pay 50% of the NPC tax, so 15% total, instead of 30%.
but obviously you should forget about this planet and move on and find other ones. I dont know which region you operate in, but there are plenty of planets around Jita with player set tax of 5% only (so 15% total).
you can also train Customs Code Expertise skill which reduces the NPC part of the tax.
Maximus Martinus
Eternal Darkness.
The Initiative.
#8 - 2015-01-19 22:54:46 UTC
Thanks for the replies.

I chose this planet for my first PI simply because it's localish and high sec (no need to keep an eye on dscan). It's just an attempt to find out how PI works.

I've looked again at the Profit! page and I'm wondering if the enormous "tax" is because I launched a largish quantity of Raw Materials R0. Did I end up paying (10% + 30%) * 4 isk per unit of material? This would mean about 440k units to make 700k isk.

I'll add a processor and see how the volume of P1 products reduces compared to R0.

MM

We are here to educate and amuse

Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2015-01-20 00:05:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Hasikan Miallok
Customs Code Expertise will help a little in hisec but you are better off in losec.

Most of my losec PI are 5%. The losec where my PI alts hangout tends to have tax rates between 5 and 8 % for POCO . That is 5% TOTAL as there is no NPC component at all.

You see the odd POCO in lowsec with tax at zero or sometimes 1% or 2 % but I steer clear of those as its highly likely the POCOs are locked and you cannot get your stuff out.
erg cz
ErgoDron
#10 - 2015-01-20 08:25:11 UTC
High sec planets are poor. If you produce P2 materials on them, it will take 2-3 days to get 500 m3 of the stuff. And with this amount you can use planetary launch from command center. Get rid of Launchpad and you will save CPU and powergrid fro more Extractor Control Units.
Bagatur I
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2015-01-20 10:38:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagatur I
Maximus Martinus wrote:
Thanks for the replies.

I chose this planet for my first PI simply because it's localish and high sec (no need to keep an eye on dscan). It's just an attempt to find out how PI works.

I've looked again at the Profit! page and I'm wondering if the enormous "tax" is because I launched a largish quantity of Raw Materials R0. Did I end up paying (10% + 30%) * 4 isk per unit of material? This would mean about 440k units to make 700k isk.

I'll add a processor and see how the volume of P1 products reduces compared to R0.

MM


The enormous tax is enormous because the POCO owner set it so. Most probably it is a "hint" that you are not welcome there ;)
And if POCO (in the transfer window or info window) has a tax of 30%, that is the total tax already, NPC plus player corp with whatever level of Customs Code Expertise you have.
You are much better off turning P0 to P1 on the planet and exporting it. First, volume reduction is huge. Second, taxes for one P1 item are less than for the amount of P0's needed to make that P1. So your storage facilities fill up slower and you pay less taxes.
To help you with numbers:
You need 3000 units of P0 (3000*0.01=30 m3 total) to produce 20 units of P1 (20*0.38=7.6 m3 total). You reduce the volume almost to a quarter of the original one.
Similarly, for one P1 production cycle, to export 3000 units of P0 you pay taxes based on the base price of 3000*4=12K ISK. To export the manufactured 20 units of P1, you pay taxes based on the base price of 20*400=8K ISK. In other words, you pay 1/3 less.
It is even better to manufacture P2 (more volume reduction still and less taxes), but it is hard to find highsec planets with enough P0 to effectively produce P2 (you need to extract 6K of P0 per hour for two different P0's in order to run one basic manufacturing facility constantly).