Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Best solo fight I ever had was a 45 minute pounding I got mining in a wormhole "doing it wrong" in a domi. An onyx, falcon and 2 ravens, drones doing nice damage but I had no points. Didn't stop mining even though they popped all my cans. GFs and kudos for being cheeky before the fast trip to null.

Skiff does a bit of that, and would have gotten away. I'd probably have had less fun.
I support having a mining battleship for working escort reasons, crossover experience, time consuming micromanagement with a decently small cargo, a reason for GFs, while being cheeky and mining.

I made points in the other thread for a repurposed existing hull with simple bonuses for economic reasons because I also think that your proposed ship would be overpriced just for its newness and targeted just for kill value.
A simple repurposing to a "mining escort" would keep price low, and be immediately available on the market.

I removed some replies to and edited out part of the post they quoted and the posts that replied to them.

ISD Ezwal always prunes gently and with care. =)




Any missile battleship can do that with RHMLs (you meant RHMLs right?) and I think that's just because RHMLs are overpowered. But you're right about it working pretty well with cruise missiles and 2x XL ASB. I'm interested to hear how the limited damage type pans out, if anyone with more experience using cruise missiles/torpedoes can give me input on how much of a handicap that really is. But also keep in mind that the ship can neither fit full mining nor full missiles. If it fits 4 cruise launchers and a full missile combat fit, it is still considerably weaker than a Raven while still only mining with 4.5 effective lasers and no mining laser upgrades. That would be mining at 90% of the speed at which a Venture mines (both with max skills).

I specifically elected for it to have the option to fit its combat damage almost as high as a combat battleship at the cost of mining yield in case the pilot decides it is necessary for the ship to be fairly effective in combat. I am thinking I was right about leaving its damage where it is, and perhaps giving it back that high slot and turret hardpoint. Even with 6 mining lasers, it still mines just 8% faster than a Retriever (both with max skills), and that puts its missile damage down to just 2 launchers (3.5 effective with thermal), leaving the better portion of its defenses in unbonused drones.



T2 ships are supposed to be specialized, CCP has stated this themselves. T1 is supposed to be more generalized and flexible, while T2 is supposed to have superior usage within a more specific niche. I don't know if it even goes with the T2 vein to make a T2 version of one of these.

As for flexibility in comparison with T1 ships: I am seeing more and more of a trend toward CCP making new or changing existing hulls toward a more shoehorned model, offering less flexibility to the pilot. I feel that it would make more sense to provide extra flexibility to T1 ships, and allow players to fit and fly them in unconventional ways should they choose to do so. As an example: the attack battlecruisers give only the turret powergrid role bonus to their native turret type. I would have them able to fit large turrets of all types. It would give them no major advantage over a combat battlecruiser's ability to fit medium turrets of any type.

I already gave an answer to that in the OP:


As for RLMLs, I don't see a problem as the ship only has 4 launcher hardpoints.

For every role you mentioned, the Procurer or Skiff is a viable, if not superior, choice.

If you really, really want a mining battleship, use a Rokh, NaPoc, etc.

-1 for new ships that don't fill any new roles.

Haven't you just described a battleship? I see no point for a middle ground that already exists with the right fitting on the right ships.

I like OP's idea.

+1

You pretty much just summed up precisely why a mining battleship isn't necessary.

Why not?

Because Barges/Exhumers already do their job better, and 1/3 of them even have battleship-like tank and non-trivial DPS. You may as well ask for a barge with no mining bonuses (but can still fit strip miners), 4 extra high slots, and the fittings for half a rack of cruise missile launchers.

-1. Again.

EDIT:
So, a ship with a rather nice bonus to drone damage and the ability to tank like a battleship isn't even remotely suited to combat?

Okay. I'd be rather curious to know what your definition of a "combat suited" ship is.

EvE is about choices. You can fly without escorts to maximize yield, you can fly with some combat-fit Skiffs and sacrifice some yield, or you can fly with some dedicated combat ships and sacrifice more yield. How many more choices do you want?

Your logic is useless. Any hole in existing roles already has a ship that does it best. Saying that battleships need not mine because barges already mine better would be like saying (pre-Incursion) that there is no point in adding a salvage industrial because destroyers already do it better than industrials.

Furthermore, the Procurer and Skiff do not have battleship-like tank or anywhere even close. They have battleship-like base hit points, and with enough hardeners they may have similar EHP as well. They cannot fit active tank even remotely close to a battleship and their EHP is actually lower, primarily acting as if it were as high only due to having a smaller sig radius and higher max velocity. As for their offense, it is drones entirely. They have great drone DPS, but it's a free handout. It takes no ship skill as it is a role bonus given in full at any level of the barge/exhumer skill. It also comes with no significant opportunity cost as both ships have twice their bandwidth in drone bay space. These ships have no room to fit a cloaking device, probe launcher, neut/nos, or drone range module. They can barely squeeze in a decent prop mod, can't fit a decent shield booster or extender. Fitting for max yield doesn't even cost much because there's little other use for their low slots save for a damage control or drone damage modules. The only shred of strategic fitting room they have is the ability to fit a point. That's it.

Now tell me again how the Procurer does absolutely everything I ever wanted, and invalidates the premise of my post?



A lot, as outlined over and over again throughout this post. Howabout as many choices as I get with pretty much every other ship I fly. Why should mining ships be so vastly more pidgeon-holed than everything else?

So just theory crafting here. According to your OP, a the mining amount is:


Without skills, and with 3 strip miner I's, im showing a covetor pulling 540 m3 per minute.
A rokh at max skills (before MLUs) with Miner II's x8 is 750 m3 per min
A TFI with max skills (before MLUs) with Miner II's x6 is 563 m3 per min

Doesnt the TFI meet what ur asking in terms of mining amount?



Im showing the dps of 4 torpedo launcher II's somewhere in the neighborhood of 287 w/ t1 thermal before ballistic controls
But assuming this ship has 5 Miner IIs in the highs, you'd only have room for 2 torp launcher IIs, which im showing dps to be around 144 w/ t1 thermal.
TFI @ all 5 and 2 ballistic control IIs (which brings it down to 5 low slots) is around 252dps. And granted, this is also before considering that the TFI can field 5 sentries instead of the 3 that you'd be asking for, and the missile damage bonus is for all types

Isnt the DPS close enough? or if anything what would be so wrong to take 5 miner IIs and 3 torp launchers IIs on the TFI, instead of 6 miner IIs and 2 torp launchers

Now granted there are a few more differences, such as the typhoon having 5 mids instead of the 6 you requested, and it wont get nearly the cargo you're asking for. But honestly, why should it? And with the exception of the cargo hold, which the TFI can max out at 5442 m3 instead of the 8967m3 you're asking for, isnt it close enough?

EDIT: just as a fun little point, a skiff @ all V with drone damage in the lows can push 397 dps with hammerhead IIs while pulling about 1013 m3 per min, with an ore hold of 15,000 m3