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Awoxing is no more

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Sladislov
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#701 - 2015-01-18 14:55:05 UTC
Tim Timpson wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Tim...citation please that is done for that reason...

Still waiting on proof that is the reason.

P.s. new players are already safe from grieving by the new player protection rules.

Also, I have recruited MANY new players over the course of years. None of them were Awoxers nor have been awoxed.

It is the corps security that makes that happen. It is quite easy to spot an awoxer.
CCP just added this for the corps who suck at doing their own security.
CCP stated that newbie recruitment is their reason for this change. I tend to believe that they know what their stats on players leaving mean. Not toe mention that in this very thread several CEOs have admitted to purposely not recruiting noobs for this very reason.

And OK, if an awoxer is easy to spot, enlighten us with what the difference between an awoxer on an new account and a newb on a new account is. There is no difference between the two. You've evidenced over and over and over again that you don't know how basic EVE mechanics work, and yet we're supposed to accept your tears about this change over CCPs own claims to the contrary?



you mean

-their ships
-their fits
-their afwully specific skillset
-money tansfers between alts
-usually a funny name like "Blute Shoes" or "PopBlues"

the one who doesnt play this game is you if you dont even realize this

       Sladislov Director of Silly semantics       Broksi Kurth    xXxBlack LegionxXx
Tim Timpson
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#702 - 2015-01-18 14:55:39 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Get on comms with your recruit and it is actually quite easy to spot a new player from someone who made an alt. By just spotting irregularity in knowledge of game mechanics etc.
Lol, because people are incapable of lying.

J'Poll wrote:
Come back when yoh have been recruiting for 3.5 years aswel as being the lead recruiter and security guy for an alliance.

And never ever saw anything that you claim happen.
I've rwcruited and saw plenty of new players been recruited, none of which were awoxers. Sure, we had to turn down a bunch of alts that tried, but those were easily spotted.
Honestly, if your alliance has you as a recruiter, then I feel incredibly sorry for them. I've read your posts and you have barely an understanding of simple mechanics. You struggled to understand how mining yield works, which is probably one of the most basic things to understand.

And sure, perhaps you have recruited non-awoxers. That doesn't mean that awoxers don't pose as newbies and it certainly won;t make most decent corps and alliances suddenly start recruiting newbies. For most people it simply isn't worth the time investment and risk when they can simply say "you must have X SP". Since you claimed however to have some uber list of amazing corps who recruit day one newbies and never get awoxed, yet refused to even produce this list though, I'm going to have to assume that you are talking complete and utter rubbish.

Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Look at their skills, and look at their assets. Odds are that if a "newbie" is making a beeline for destroyers, you're in for some trouble.
That only helps you against the most obvious of awoxers. You can awox in a venture. I've posed as 2 separate players in a corp, one mission runner and 1 miner in a venture, tackled an orca with the venture then nuked it down to low hull with my mission running BC and extorted a ransom. Ability to use a point is relatively simple to explain with either "I got that skill doing tutorial missions" or "I thought it would be good to learn all the skills a bit", and unless they scan your ship during the run that you are planning to awox, they'll never see it coming.

Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Here's a novel idea: having new players join loot pinata corporations is a bad idea. Being in the damn NPC corporations is a touch better than being taught to fit flux coils on your Drake, and to be afraid of your own shadow, by some megalomaniac who treats his corporation members like his own personal property.
Well apparently it's a bad idea, because new players who stay in NPC corps tend to quit.

What I can't believe with this is that it's a change to encourage people to join (or be recruited by) player corps and interact with each other, and there's so many tears over it!
Solecist Project
#703 - 2015-01-18 14:56:40 UTC
Arec Bardwin wrote:
Could this change be in violation of Malcani's Law?

The older player has it easier tricking a newer player into a duel ...
... and with this change his corpmates will have a really hard time saving him.

Not that they ever do so anyway.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Tim Timpson
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#704 - 2015-01-18 14:58:24 UTC
Sladislov wrote:
you mean

-their ships
-their fits
-their afwully specific skillset
-money tansfers between alts
-usually a funny name like "Blute Shoes" or "PopBlues"

the one who doesnt play this game is you if you dont even realize this
Yes, obvious awoxers are obvious. *applause* Roll
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#705 - 2015-01-18 15:00:58 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Tim Timpson wrote:
Oh I see, so you're saying an awoxer can;t pretend to be a newbie (which is obviously wrong) and that getting isk to your awoxer alt is an issue (which is again wrong - it's called jettisoning PLEX in space and pretending you bought PLEX), and that awoxers need funding - which is again wrong since a half decent awoxer can deal enormous damage with just the stuff they get from tutorial missions.

This is segregating newbies, which is hardly newbie friendly and it's certainly not a surefire way of getting rid of awoxers.

So refuse to recruit them and say "I'll set you blue, and later I might recruit you". I won't even begin to explain why that idea is terrible.

On top of all of this you miss one thing - you're talking about behavioural changes - You can't force people to do this, so the fact is that most corps just don;t recruit noobs, since it's safer and easier to simply put in minimum SP limits.

It has nothing to do with people wanting to awox newbies in their rookie ships, it's about the refusal to recruit newbies into decent corps. The fact that this is what you keep returning to is just further proof you don't understand the change.

Effectively you're crying your eyes out because a handful of awoxers won't have easy mode awoxing any more. Well tough luck. CCP have already had this discussion with us, they've looked at the stats and made the decision. The change is coming, so get over it. If you can't get over it, quit.


A. Yes, it is VERY easy to spot a true new player from a veteran with a new character if you put some effort in it.

B. Haha, so an Awoxer that skilled his SP to meet your SP limit, suddenly isn't a issue anymore. So, if I with 50 mil SP apply to a corp, that means I can't ever be an awoxer to your logic.

C. It's weird that a trainee corp does work. They can have all the benefit of being in teh corp (just use the alliance chat as a corp chat) without any of the downsides for them being an awoxer. It's not segregating when you do everything as an alliance together.

D. It's not we don't recruit you, it's let's give you a trial period before we truely accept you among us.

E. Again, please point me to all those corps that don't recruit new players now, but will definately will after this change hits. The majority of the corps that don't recruit new players now, do that cause they don't want to deal with new player teaching. Those that truely want to teach new players in EVE, already do this by letting them in.

F. Effectively you are crying your eyes out so much about your inability to protect yourself against an awoxer, that CCP (yet again) gives in to your demands to make EVE Hello Kitty Online more.

Personally as I live in low-sec, I don't really give a **** about the change itself. But it just shows that CCP only looks at one thing: How to make EVE completely safe so we can have more of those WoW carebear people like yourself in this game, ruining the game with their feel of entitlement.

G. Maybe people's behaviour should change. It's called adaptation to your surroundings. The only people that don't want to change their behaviour, are the ones that cried so much they want absolute safety in high-sec. And from the progression so far, it looks like it will happen.

I can already tell the next thing you will cry about, it's either ganking being too easy and/or wardecs should be removed all together. And I wouldn't be half surprised if CCP, yet again will give in to your entitlement.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Tim Timpson
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#706 - 2015-01-18 15:02:11 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
All of this talk about how CEOs don't recruit noobs because of awoxing completely ignores the fact that CEOs don't recruit noobs at much higher rates because they can be future war spies. Doesn't even begin to compare.

Maybe you feel safe talking about hypotheticals, but I actually infiltrate these corporations by the dozen and get hired to protect them sometimes, so I have more than enough practical experience with regard to the matter. I think I heard awoxing being mentioned half a dozen times at most by these people in the last five or six years, but every single one of them make war spying an almost-daily piece of conversation.
Spies will always get it. Fact. If you have something that needs to be spied on, a spy will get in. I've never had a corp I've been unable to infiltrate to spy on beyond personal corps full of alts who recruit nobody and generally don't need to be spied on. The best way to deal with spies is by restricting information flow in the first place, recruitment is generally irrelevant once you reach a certain size.
Solecist Project
#707 - 2015-01-18 15:03:11 UTC
Tim Timpson wrote:
Sladislov wrote:
you mean

-their ships
-their fits
-their afwully specific skillset
-money tansfers between alts
-usually a funny name like "Blute Shoes" or "PopBlues"

the one who doesnt play this game is you if you dont even realize this
Yes, obvious awoxers are obvious. *applause* Roll

Lack of social skills and empathy is the number one reason why people can't spot liars.
That applies to the real world as much as to the game.

The most obvious ones won't get caught ...
... if the person that should catch him is too stupid.


But the worst cases are those when the awoxxer tells it up front ...
... and the recruiter is just too ******* full of himself and still let's him in.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Tim Timpson
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#708 - 2015-01-18 15:03:56 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Tim Timpson wrote:
Awoxers will just have to put a bit of effort in.
amount of effort put in is irrelevant if the feature is no longer there.
Dave, I'm sure you've been here long enough to know what awoxing is. Awoxing does not require corp aggression.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#709 - 2015-01-18 15:04:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Tim Timpson wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
All of this talk about how CEOs don't recruit noobs because of awoxing completely ignores the fact that CEOs don't recruit noobs at much higher rates because they can be future war spies. Doesn't even begin to compare.

Maybe you feel safe talking about hypotheticals, but I actually infiltrate these corporations by the dozen and get hired to protect them sometimes, so I have more than enough practical experience with regard to the matter. I think I heard awoxing being mentioned half a dozen times at most by these people in the last five or six years, but every single one of them make war spying an almost-daily piece of conversation.
Spies will always get it. Fact. If you have something that needs to be spied on, a spy will get in. I've never had a corp I've been unable to infiltrate to spy on beyond personal corps full of alts who recruit nobody and generally don't need to be spied on. The best way to deal with spies is by restricting information flow in the first place, recruitment is generally irrelevant once you reach a certain size.

You've just done a complete 180.

I presented to you an aspect of the game that's responsible for keeping new players out of corporations to a much higher degree than awoxing, and your response is "information management."

Holy crap.

Tim Timpson wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Tim Timpson wrote:
Awoxers will just have to put a bit of effort in.
amount of effort put in is irrelevant if the feature is no longer there.
Dave, I'm sure you've been here long enough to know what awoxing is. Awoxing does not require corp aggression.

What.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#710 - 2015-01-18 15:04:55 UTC
Tim Timpson wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Get on comms with your recruit and it is actually quite easy to spot a new player from someone who made an alt. By just spotting irregularity in knowledge of game mechanics etc.
Lol, because people are incapable of lying.


Sure, but it is very very hard to be consistant with your lies if you are pretending to be a new player while you have knowledge about certain mechanics.

Someone who is new, isn't fully dedicated skilling into a certain ship + fit for instance.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#711 - 2015-01-18 15:06:21 UTC
Tim Timpson wrote:
I've read your posts and you have barely an understanding of simple mechanics. You struggled to understand how mining yield works, which is probably one of the most basic things to understand.


Cause, maybe none of the corp were even remotely interested in mining all together.

Cause, nobody with even more then 1 braincell would like to mine in EVE.

Hell, I can tell you, I would rather put a gun to my head and pull the trigger then I would ever mine in this game.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Sol Jing Ko
Doomheim
#712 - 2015-01-18 15:06:25 UTC
/me pulls on J'Poll's shirt.


Excuse me, ma'am??
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#713 - 2015-01-18 15:10:11 UTC
Tim Timpson wrote:
Well apparently it's a bad idea, because new players who stay in NPC corps tend to quit.


You might want to have a word with some 7+ year vets that are still in the NPC starter corp.

Or with some people in public chat channels that are in the game for at least a year and still in a NPC corp and still happily playing.

A player that leaves while in a NPC corp, most likely would have left anyway if they are in a player corp.
You do know that a corp isnt' the only way to play together with others. The lack of socializing iwth others doesn't change if they can join "any of those random ****** corps that pollute EVE"

And this change will NOT change most of the proper corps recruitment policy. Don't expect that RnK or any of the other good corps will suddenly open recruitment to everybody.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Tim Timpson
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#714 - 2015-01-18 15:13:03 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
A. Yes, it is VERY easy to spot a true new player from a veteran with a new character if you put some effort in it.

B. Haha, so an Awoxer that skilled his SP to meet your SP limit, suddenly isn't a issue anymore. So, if I with 50 mil SP apply to a corp, that means I can't ever be an awoxer to your logic.

C. It's weird that a trainee corp does work. They can have all the benefit of being in teh corp (just use the alliance chat as a corp chat) without any of the downsides for them being an awoxer. It's not segregating when you do everything as an alliance together.

D. It's not we don't recruit you, it's let's give you a trial period before we truely accept you among us.

E. Again, please point me to all those corps that don't recruit new players now, but will definately will after this change hits. The majority of the corps that don't recruit new players now, do that cause they don't want to deal with new player teaching. Those that truely want to teach new players in EVE, already do this by letting them in.

F. Effectively you are crying your eyes out so much about your inability to protect yourself against an awoxer, that CCP (yet again) gives in to your demands to make EVE Hello Kitty Online more.

Personally as I live in low-sec, I don't really give a **** about the change itself. But it just shows that CCP only looks at one thing: How to make EVE completely safe so we can have more of those WoW carebear people like yourself in this game, ruining the game with their feel of entitlement.

G. Maybe people's behaviour should change. It's called adaptation to your surroundings. The only people that don't want to change their behaviour, are the ones that cried so much they want absolute safety in high-sec. And from the progression so far, it looks like it will happen.

I can already tell the next thing you will cry about, it's either ganking being too easy and/or wardecs should be removed all together. And I wouldn't be half surprised if CCP, yet again will give in to your entitlement.
A. Wrong.

B. No, that's not what it means at all. But very few awoxers are going to get all the way up to 50m SP just to use a corp aggression awox. Players at that level are going to be robbing you, which is not being removed.

C. While a trainee corp does work, it's not particularly fun for the recruit, is not perfectly safe and takes more effort. Generally only alliances will have training corps. A corp outside of an alliance generally won't. And again, you can;t force people to do this, so it still means most people just won't recruit newbies since it's easeir and more effective.

D. Which is great sounding to *you* but sounds lame to the recruit. Mainly because it's lame.

E. I'm not going to go back through this thread to give you a list that you can;t be bothered to make. Especially since you supposedly have a list of heaps of corps who currently are awesome and recruit day one newbies, yet you refuse to prove that.

F. I'm not crying about anything. I don't need to cry. The change won;t affect me, it;s a change to help newbies, and most importantly, the change is already coming. I've already won by not being against what CCP is doing. Why would I cry about something that is happening which I agree with?

G. Well you can't force a behavioural change. Yes, it would be great if people just used the current system and actually recruited noobs and dealt with awoxers in another way. but they don't, so the point is moot.

And lol onto the typical "YOU MUST WANT THE WHOLE GAME TO BE SAFE AND EASY!!!". Seriously, stop being terrible. Easy mode awoxing is going. Get over it.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#715 - 2015-01-18 15:13:06 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Tim Timpson wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
All of this talk about how CEOs don't recruit noobs because of awoxing completely ignores the fact that CEOs don't recruit noobs at much higher rates because they can be future war spies. Doesn't even begin to compare.

Maybe you feel safe talking about hypotheticals, but I actually infiltrate these corporations by the dozen and get hired to protect them sometimes, so I have more than enough practical experience with regard to the matter. I think I heard awoxing being mentioned half a dozen times at most by these people in the last five or six years, but every single one of them make war spying an almost-daily piece of conversation.
Spies will always get it. Fact. If you have something that needs to be spied on, a spy will get in. I've never had a corp I've been unable to infiltrate to spy on beyond personal corps full of alts who recruit nobody and generally don't need to be spied on. The best way to deal with spies is by restricting information flow in the first place, recruitment is generally irrelevant once you reach a certain size.

You've just done a complete 180.

I presented to you an aspect of the game that's responsible for keeping new players out of corporations to a much higher degree than awoxing, and your response is "information management."

Holy crap.


Exactly my thought, awoxing is just a tiny share if you compare them with spying and theft.

Can you guess what the next 2 logical things are that CCP will delete from the game?

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Tim Timpson
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#716 - 2015-01-18 15:15:44 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Tim Timpson wrote:
Well apparently it's a bad idea, because new players who stay in NPC corps tend to quit.
You might want to have a word with some 7+ year vets that are still in the NPC starter corp.
OK, this is the last time I'm telling you this since you obviously don't get it. Some people doing something doesn't mean others also do that. CCP showed the stats last fanfest that people who don;t interact and stay in NPC corps tend to leave.

What's incredibly dumb here is that people like you are complaining over a change that will encourage people to leave NPC corps, and I bet in the same breath you'd complain that people don;t leave NPC corps. Which is it? Do you want people to stay in NPC corps or join player corps and interact with other players?
Solecist Project
#717 - 2015-01-18 15:19:07 UTC

You people really are a sad bunch of victims.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Tim Timpson
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#718 - 2015-01-18 15:22:29 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
You've just done a complete 180.

I presented to you an aspect of the game that's responsible for keeping new players out of corporations to a much higher degree than awoxing, and your response is "information management."
How have I? You stated that spies are ea reason people keep new players out, I pointed out that it's futile to keep people out for that reason since spies will get in regardless. I think you must be struggling with understanding something that has been said there if you somehow think that's a 180.

Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Tim Timpson wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Tim Timpson wrote:
Awoxers will just have to put a bit of effort in.
amount of effort put in is irrelevant if the feature is no longer there.
Dave, I'm sure you've been here long enough to know what awoxing is. Awoxing does not require corp aggression.
What.
Do you know what awoxing means? Awoxing is not just shooting another player. Robbing a corp is awoxing for example. The ability to shoot a player in highsec was just a method used by lazy awoxers who couldn't be bothered to put the effort it. Now they will have to.
Tim Timpson
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#719 - 2015-01-18 15:23:27 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Can you guess what the next 2 logical things are that CCP will delete from the game?
Hopefully your characters when you inevitably ragequit. Oh what's that? You aren't quitting? I guess CCP have no reason to not go ahead with this change then.
Solecist Project
#720 - 2015-01-18 15:25:16 UTC
...






May I please remind people of breathing ...
... taking a step back ...
... and realising when they are starting to insta-respond and blindly ragepost.



Take at least a minute after reading a post ...
... letting it sink in ...
... before you even start typing out the response.


Insta-responding shows pure pattern-based behaviour and comparison of already saved data (one's stupid viewpoint)
compared to letting information actually sink in for better processing.


Try it.


Don't be a machine.



Thanks.






...

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia